NY Islanders Sale Talk Part II

[blitzkriegs]

I agree. However, players don't want to sign here because of the way the **** show is run by Wang and Snow. Those two (more so Wang) has shown no intention of winning and his actions have shown that he doesn't really give a crap about winning. Does the arena play a part? I'm sure it does. But, at the end of the day players want to play for a winner and an owner who wants to win. arena can be ******, but if the player knows the owner is willing to spend to win? That could make a big difference.

Because the Joe is a real treat in a decripid US economic market like MI. Yet, players WANT to play there. I wonder why...

 

[bluechipbonzo]

He's the second longest tenured owner of the team and it's been one giant horrendous ride. It's time for it to end. I don't thank Wang for saving the Isles as many Isles seem to love to do. Why? Because since he's owned the team there has been zero expansion and one relocation - a team that failed miserably in a non-traditional hockey market. That's it. The threats, pseudo threats, whatever are and were always puffing. The league didn't let PHO move, yet was going to be ok with moving a team from the NY/metro market. Uh-huh. Sure.

I agree, it's been a circus.

I think he, like all business men would like to make money, and was hoping for the land deal/lighthouse and when it didn't go through certainly stopped spending as much. But he's also got an investment here, and personnel are the biggest part of it.

Surely you don't sacrifice Tavares- it would mean a tougher sell on a new building ($$$), new buyers ($$$$)...I think offers were made, but there are other many other more desirable teams to go to- contenders, better hockey markets (talking full buildings here, for the love of the game, not just markets that cheer winners), that didn't have the gang of Four, Spano, Milbury ghosts haunting them.

 

[IslesFanatic]

It could have been...I don't know that, never saw the fine print...was it published somewhere?

Here's an example of you applying what Snow did with Okposo, Bailey, etc with a UFA...so Snow didn't really want Ehroff, or Wang didn't?

Snow invented the backloaded contract?

No other free agent signed this type of deal?

Just avoided the Isles blc because of losing culture and building?

I think we would be hard pressed to find a UFA who signed a backloaded deal. RFA's probably a different story but its two different worlds between UFA and RFA.

I do believe it was mentioned/written that their offer was backloaded. Would you take that offer as a UFA if you KNEW someone would offered you the same or money and get more of it up front? I sure as heck wouldn't.

 

[IslesFanatic]

I agree, it's been a circus.

I think he, like all business men would like to make money, and was hoping for the land deal/lighthouse and when it didn't go through certainly stopped spending as much. But he's also got an investment here, and personnel are the biggest part of it.

Surely you don't sacrifice Tavares- it would mean a tougher sell on a new building ($$$), new buyers ($$$$)...I think offers were made, but there are other many other more desirable teams to go to- contenders, better hockey markets (talking full buildings here, for the love of the game, not just markets that cheer winners), that didn't have the gang of Four, Spano, Milbury ghosts haunting them.

Hence why so many isles fans want a new owner. Start over. maybe with a new owner who is willing to spend and a new arena things will be different. If isles are in new arena and have same ownership, IMO nothing changes.

 

[bluechipbonzo]

Because the Joe is a real treat in a decripid US economic market like MI. Yet, players WANT to play there. I wonder why...

Original six.

History of recent success.

Had Milbury not been forced to trade that future all-star line-up, this would be moot. We would be hockey town...Detroit was a joke franchise for years...

Certainly Illich >>>>Wang.

Let's compare Wang to other frugal owners...oh wait there are only 30 examples...but only one team that had Milbury set it back ten years as most agree

 

[IslesFanatic]

Original six.

History of recent success.

Had Milbury not been forced to trade that future all-star line-up, this would be moot. We would be hockey town...Detroit was a joke franchise for years...

Certainly Illich >>>>Wang.

Let's compare Wang to other frugal owners...oh wait there are only 30 examples...but only one team that had Milbury set it back ten years as most agree

Milbury has nothing to do with Wang being a cheap ass owner right now. You can say Milbury traded away a lot of talent, but you cant pin Wang being cheap and running this franchise into the ground with all his crazy ******** on Milbury.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Original six.

History of recent success.

Had Milbury not been forced to trade that future all-star line-up, this would be moot. We would be hockey town...Detroit was a joke franchise for years...

Certainly Illich >>>>Wang.

Let's compare Wang to other frugal owners...oh wait there are only 30 examples...but only one team that had Milbury set it back ten years as most agree

Milbury did what he did under a different owner. I think Wang has more than enough time to demonstrate his competency and success. A lot
of NYIs problems are self-inflicted by Wang (milbury, DP, Yashin, snow to GM, DP on NHL roster, ELC bonuses, over 35'er bonuses, training camps in CAN-ps they pay the Isles to be there, Niño trade/circus, skeleton NHL management team, Weight as assistant coach and GM, the JT Olympic injury statement, etc...) Is that enough?

 

[bluechipbonzo]

Milbury did what he did under a different owner. I think Wang has more than enough time to demonstrate his competency and success. A lot
of NYIs problems are self-inflicted by Wang (milbury, DP, Yashin, snow to GM, DP on NHL roster, ELC bonuses, over 35'er bonuses, training camps in CAN-ps they pay the Isles to be there, Niño trade/circus, skeleton NHL management team, Weight as assistant coach and GM, the JT Olympic injury statement, etc...) Is that enough?

ok ok i give lol

 

[boredmale]

A lot of NYIs problems are self-inflicted by Wang

The Islanders were actually doing decently up until the first lockout, at that point it seemed like Wang decided to cut the payroll(or go for a team with a middle of the pack salary structure to a team with the lowest payroll). For Wang's entire time owning the team he seems to get the team to perform at the level of the payroll.

 

[BillD]

The Islanders were actually doing decently up until the first lockout, at that point it seemed like Wang decided to cut the payroll(or go for a team with a middle of the pack salary structure to a team with the lowest payroll)

Never one of the higher payroll teams, a crossroads came with the decision to build the team from the draft with youngsters.
Here comes the question: was that decision a convenient excuse for the cap floor payroll by virtue of the ELC salaries being paid and the waiver wire pick ups, or was a cap floor structure designed that would only allow waiver wire and ELC players to accomplish the salary structure?
Either way, since embarking on that draft building only strategy, we have been a cap floor team and frequently a below cap salary team.
With that in existence, we were still told that the owner lost many millions each season, up to $23MM if I remember.
You could call him cheap if you want, but his business plan was to reduce/limit annual operating losses by paying the lowest salary structure he could get away with.

 

[boredmale]

You could call him cheap if you want, but his business plan was to reduce/limit annual operating losses by paying the lowest salary structure he could get away with.

On the flip side he could have had a higher payroll, invest a little cash on the team beyond payroll(coach), be more competitive then he wouldn't have to sell seats for 5-10 bucks to get 12,000 people showing up to a game after Christmas

I think a decent comparison would be would you rather pay 100 buck for a decent hotel or go to some 30 dollar flee bag motel that cuts corners? Wang went for the 30 dollar motel

 

[periferal]

Exactly. So who is authorizing and paying for a $10MM jump above the floor this year (if we get the LW)?

I promise to give you 1 million dollars (if I win the 100 million Powerball).

Wake me when we have spent OFFICIALLY 10 million above the cap floor and then I'll start theorizing on why we've done something for the first time in over a decade...Spent substantially above the cap floor.

Until then it's business as usual under wang which is to say...Lack of spending and lack of wins.

 

[dlawong]

I do not have complete knowledge on what the business deals happened since Wang bought the team. I think his biggest mistakes is hiring the wrong people to run the team and a reluctance to change the management to improve the situation. If he had good management team to start with, I doubt that he would have been in the same boat today. However this just to show you that he may be a very smart owner in other type of business, his lack of hockey knowledge was the main cause of how this team was run, resulting in losing stakeholders over the last decade and now be at a position that it will take some real strong actions (including cash inflows) to correct the situation going forward to rebuild the value of this franchise. It is much like running a restaurant and hotels, if you do not have the industry know how or strong connection to people who know the business to help you out, it is real risky putting your money in it, because if you do not run it in the most efficient way while being able to retain customer satisfactions, it can quickly go out of business or fall down on a slipper road even after a successful start. Wang should probably not have gotten into owning a sport franchise, especially one he does not seem to know much of. The political landscape did not help either. Had the city of Pittsburgh did not help out Lamieux to get that arena, they would not have been able to keep the franchise in Pittsburgh. Certainly landing Crosby and Malkin consequentially by luck is also a big factor. However that is not something you can really control, especially with the lottery draft format today.

The market does matter though. Most smaller markets have hard time keeping the attendance high even when their team does well. The saying that if you win, the fans will come does not always work for smaller market especially where other sports dominate and the TV coverage is minimal. It is like soccer and hockey, in most other countries outside Canada and US, if someone is going to pay to watch a sport or even spend time watching the game on TV, no matter how exciting that hockey game is in their eyes, the bigger market will always be soccer. You just simply can't ignore that culture and demographics plays a big part in market attendance. Similarly for Florida sport teams, the only one that will ever do well there is football and basketball. California did change because of the minor hockey development there over the last decade, but that will never happen in Florida. However even with higher attendance, hockey is still 2nd to other sports there. I remember that Last time LA won their SC, the SC parade did not even have that a great turn out. When Richards move there in the year he got traded, he was surprised that how one of the staff working for one of the community event he attended does not even recognize who he was. Florida teams have to keep the hockey ticket price dirt cheap and use many promotions like pizza/hot dog days to entice customers into the arena. Florida teams do have the advantage of luring many sport players to move there because of the tax advantage, the life style and the beautiful climates.

Of course, if you are an aging veteran with high pedigree and have not yet won a champion ring, you more likely will not want to move to a rebuilding team or one is in the process of becoming a contender. Most pro athletes want to own a champion title or one more before they retire (if they have not won in a long time), unless of course their family life is much more important than winning a trophy.

Unless you are a reputable GM, one with many achievements, or have real strong connections in high places in hockey, it is not easy to take over a rebuilding or young team (without much recent success even with high future upside) to attract big UFA signing, even with money to spent. Just think if you are Snow today, what would you say to any of the big name UFA today out there and try to sell the team and negotiate a contract without hometown and other connections? Is it an easy thing to do even when you throw money on the table and do you really want to grossly over pay the players or be tied down by "No Trade" clauses which may impact your signing other key players down the road or limit the ability to make enhancement to your future roster when you found or develop better players down the road to replace the one you just signed.

There is only one way to improve the situation if the UFA market does not work out - to revalue and improve the entire coaching staff (hence the system, game preparation, leadership, in game strategy, line-up decisions, communication, motivation, and development) or to make some smart win-win trades with other teams. Mind you, you do have to build good trade relations with other team managers or pretty soon, no one would want to be your trading partners.

 

[Islander102]

************* is a place for simple minded morons. The moderator bullies people (Islesfan102) and talks with sarcasm that is honestly more disgusting than anything. Who can take that place seriously?

BTW, believe what you want. Denis Potvin is the new Isles president. It will all come out soon enough.

Oh hai there.

 

[bluechipbonzo]

I do not have complete knowledge on what the business deals happened since Wang bought the team. I think his biggest mistakes is hiring the wrong people to run the team and a reluctance to change the management to improve the situation. If he had good management team to start with, I doubt that he would have been in the same boat today. However this just to show you that he may be a very smart owner in other type of business, his lack of hockey knowledge was the main cause of how this team was run, resulting in losing stakeholders over the last decade and now be at a position that it will take some real strong actions (including cash inflows) to correct the situation going forward to rebuild the value of this franchise. It is much like running a restaurant and hotels, if you do not have the industry know how or strong connection to people who know the business to help you out, it is real risky putting your money in it, because if you do not run it in the most efficient way while being able to retain customer satisfactions, it can quickly go out of business or fall down on a slipper road even after a successful start. Wang should probably not have gotten into owning a sport franchise, especially one he does not seem to know much of. The political landscape did not help either. Had the city of Pittsburgh did not help out Lamieux to get that arena, they would not have been able to keep the franchise in Pittsburgh. Certainly landing Crosby and Malkin consequentially by luck is also a big factor. However that is not something you can really control, especially with the lottery draft format today.

The market does matter though. Most smaller markets have hard time keeping the attendance high even when their team does well. The saying that if you win, the fans will come does not always work for smaller market especially where other sports dominate and the TV coverage is minimal. It is like soccer and hockey, in most other countries outside Canada and US, if someone is going to pay to watch a sport or even spend time watching the game on TV, no matter how exciting that hockey game is in their eyes, the bigger market will always be soccer. You just simply can't ignore that culture and demographics plays a big part in market attendance. Similarly for Florida sport teams, the only one that will ever do well there is football and basketball. California did change because of the minor hockey development there over the last decade, but that will never happen in Florida. However even with higher attendance, hockey is still 2nd to other sports there. I remember that Last time LA won their SC, the SC parade did not even have that a great turn out. When Richards move there in the year he got traded, he was surprised that how one of the staff working for one of the community event he attended does not even recognize who he was. Florida teams have to keep the hockey ticket price dirt cheap and use many promotions like pizza/hot dog days to entice customers into the arena. Florida teams do have the advantage of luring many sport players to move there because of the tax advantage, the life style and the beautiful climates.

Of course, if you are an aging veteran with high pedigree and have not yet won a champion ring, you more likely will not want to move to a rebuilding team or one is in the process of becoming a contender. Most pro athletes want to own a champion title or one more before they retire (if they have not won in a long time), unless of course their family life is much more important than winning a trophy.

Unless you are a reputable GM, one with many achievements, or have real strong connections in high places in hockey, it is not easy to take over a rebuilding or young team (without much recent success even with high future upside) to attract big UFA signing, even with money to spent. Just think if you are Snow today, what would you say to any of the big name UFA today out there and try to sell the team and negotiate a contract without hometown and other connections? Is it an easy thing to do even when you throw money on the table and do you really want to grossly over pay the players or be tied down by "No Trade" clauses which may impact your signing other key players down the road or limit the ability to make enhancement to your future roster when you found or develop better players down the road to replace the one you just signed.

There is only one way to improve the situation if the UFA market does not work out - to revalue and improve the entire coaching staff (hence the system, game preparation, leadership, in game strategy, line-up decisions, communication, motivation, and development) or to make some smart win-win trades with other teams. Mind you, you do have to build good trade relations with other team managers or pretty soon, no one would want to be your trading partners.

http://www.amazon.com/Concise-Guide-Writing-Rise-Axelrod/dp/0312390831

 

[MJF]

He's the second longest tenured owner of the team and it's been one giant horrendous ride. It's time for it to end. I don't thank Wang for saving the Isles as many Isles seem to love to do. Why? Because since he's owned the team there has been zero expansion and one relocation - a team that failed miserably in a non-traditional hockey market. That's it. The threats, pseudo threats, whatever are and were always puffing. The league didn't let PHO move, yet was going to be ok with moving a team from the NY/metro market. Uh-huh. Sure.

DING-DING-DING-DING!!!!

We have a winner. Someone who gets it.

 

[periferal]

DING-DING-DING-DING!!!!

We have a winner. Someone who gets it.

Seconded.

 

[BMOK33]

The Islanders were actually doing decently up until the first lockout, at that point it seemed like Wang decided to cut the payroll(or go for a team with a middle of the pack salary structure to a team with the lowest payroll). For Wang's entire time owning the team he seems to get the team to perform at the level of the payroll.

If you put the current offense on those 01-04 teams they probably win a cup....they had defense and decent goaltending but not a great offense.

 

[Felix Unger]

Tick tock...

Now the NBA finals are over too. And the US open. I suppose Bettman won't want any announcements getting in the way of the World Cup?

 

[wingnutks]

Tick tock...

Now the NBA finals are over too. And the US open. I suppose Bettman won't want any announcements getting in the way of the World Cup?

Why does everyone think it is Bettman that would delay the announcement?

 

[Riseonfire]

I'm starting to get nervous... If there is no announcement before Friday I'm gonna have to put this out of my mind. Urgh.

 

[Felix Unger]

Why does everyone think it is Bettman that would delay the announcement?

I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic.

 

[wingnutks]

I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic.

I wouldnt doubt that Bettman would recommend it. But if anything I would think the new owner would be the one who would want to wait until the SCF is over so they can have the spotlight(as small as it may be) to themselves.

 

[lorwood]

Tick tock...

Now the NBA finals are over too. And the US open. I suppose Bettman won't want any announcements getting in the way of the World Cup?

I think they were waiting for the season finale of Game of Thrones

 

[KnishOfTheCrease]

I'm checking this thread religiously in hope of something being announce. Probably setting myself up for a big letdown.