NY Islanders Sale Talk ONLY Part IV **Post 400, Isles SOLD**

[BillD]

I never said it wasn't unethical. I said that everybody on here would have done the same thing.

Would I be unethical to make $100m? Yes I would. I can admit it. I would do it tomorrow. And I suspect that everybody on HF would.

This isn't chump change.

PS: It wasn't overly unethical. I think the "I hate Wang" blinders are a little too strong in this case.

Everybody would not have gone about it the same way. Or maybe they would have if ethics were not a factor. I have been involved with and witnessed many large transactions over my 45 year career in corporate finance and restructuring. The great majority proceed in good faith. Wang has a character flaw which leads him to the lowest denominator of behavior. It is not the matter of leaving $100MM on the table, it is a case of choosing a buyer from all bidders and negotiating in good faith.
The character of our owner has been well established over the years. It is disconcerting to have him in control for the next two years, and to have any role to play thereafter. He could have gotten the same result of a deal without accepting two different offers with no good intent. This is not a man I would trust to do business with. Trust in business is vital.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Congrats on the sale Isles fans, only the Toronto Maple Leafs deserve a bad owner.

 

[MJF]

PS: It wasn't overly unethical. I think the "I hate Wang" blinders are a little too strong in this case.

It was only a little bit unethical. I get it.

So after being exposed to Charles Wang for 14 years, tell me what there is to like about the guy, for those whose hate blinders are on too tight.

 

[ScaredStreit]

It was only a little bit unethical. I get it.

So after being exposed to Charles Wang for 14 years, tell me what there is to like about the guy, for those whose hate blinders are on too tight.

Read the rest of the post(s). I clearly don't like Wang. But that doesn't mean I don't understand why he did this.

 

[MJF]

Read the rest of the post(s). I clearly don't like Wang. But that doesn't mean I don't understand why he did this.

I read your entire post. I got the message you were sending.

And I'll reiterate, apparently ethics goes out the window with some posters here when trying to extract a price.

 

[JKP]

Look, let's be realistic here. What happened was he had a deal and in the middle of it Ballmer reset the sports franchise bar, so Wang went for that extra value.

I have no doubt the guy is a ***** to deal with, but the landscape changed and he wanted to get the value. He told Barroway the price had changed and Barroway wanted to keep that extra value for himself.

I don't see it as unethical. Totally transparent? Nope. But anyone dealing with the guy should take his reputation into consideration.

Caveat emptor...

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I never said it wasn't unethical. I said that everybody on here would have done the same thing.

Would I be unethical to make $100m? Yes I would. I can admit it. I would do it tomorrow. And I suspect that everybody on HF would.

This isn't chump change.

PS: It wasn't overly unethical. I think the "I hate Wang" blinders are a little too strong in this case.

Considering the way Wang is an expert on leaving other people holding the bag and has a solid history worming out of stuff I don't think you can say that.

And we still have to deal with him hanging around and putting his fingers in the pie to screw stuff up. There is plenty to still be reasonably unhappy about.

 

[JKP]

Yep, wang saved the islanders and no one Ever wanted to buy them...uh-huh. Gee, once Wang wanted to sell not one, or two, but so far three wealthy offers came along.

Yeah, just a little out of context. Who, 12 years ago, was lining up to buy them? Who wanted 10 years of of the coliseum lease? Now, Barclays and Brooklyn and the value of sports team as TV content in a DVR age the team has value.

Let's not delude ourselves that any of these parties would be interested in this team as just a hockey product when Wang was forking over the cash to buy them and keep them going while he chased his real estate deal.

 

[The Underboss]

I read your entire post. I got the message you were sending.

And I'll reiterate, apparently ethics goes out the window with some posters here when trying to extract a price.

You'd be surprised in business how many times ethics gets thrown out the window. It's all about the almighty dollar, but there is a right and wrong way to go about getting paid. Wang went about it the scummy way if we believe reports.

Yay capitalism!

Corporations do legally shady stuff all the time sadly all for the dollar. Sadly though being ethically bankrupt is not illegal.

 

[Strome18]

Ethics is a class they teach in business but not something you need to use in real life.

Dollars and ethics are not common place in other countries as the USA portrays it to be.

Look up Governments vs. Ethics in Africa. Look up ethics vs. Corporate america/Corporate world..

What makes Wang bigger than those 2 entities? Nothing at all.

Wang did the right thing for his wallet, NHL Owners, NHL, and capitalism.

 

[BillD]

You'd be surprised in business how many times ethics gets thrown out the window. It's all about the almighty dollar, but there is a right and wrong way to go about getting paid. Wang went about it the scummy way if we believe reports.

Yay capitalism!

Corporations do legally shady stuff all the time sadly all for the dollar. Sadly though being ethically bankrupt is not illegal.

Sal, you are correct. I think we are debating the character of the man who will be the majority owner of the Islanders the next two years, and then have a vested minority share thereafter. This is not a man I would chose to do business with because of the behavior he has exhibited in past dealings and in this instance with the acceptance of two separate bidders. He is untrustworthy.
Professionals that are licensed such as attorneys and certified public accountants are subject to ethics standards in the performance of their duties. Their work can be brought before ethics boards and committee's and they could be disbarred, censured, have their licenses suspended or revoked.
"Businessmen" that employ such professionals are not bound by these standards, and there is no question that individuals in charge of corporations large or smaller do not act with the highest standards.
In most if not all acquisitions in business of any size, there are normally funds that are held back in escrow for post closing adjustments. These entail protection for the buyer from certain misstatements or misrepresentations. As an example, the quality of listed book inventory or the collectability of accounts receivable that are represented to be of a higher quality than they truly are.
The point I am making is that Charles Wang deals from the bottom of the deck and he is the owner that we count on to provide the paying (and caring fans......us) with information about what we care and pay for.
This man is dishonest to his core. Read his business bio some day. As fans, we are at risk to not only his poor decisions and ineptitude, but to his weak moral compass. When given a choice between right and wrong, people like Wang usually chose wrong if they can gain by it and they think they can get away with it, or better yet, let someone else take the blame if he is caught.
I love this team, but I am very distraught that Wang will still be associated with it.
It is also eye opening to read that some feel that if you can profit from it, any behavior justifies it.

 

[MJF]

Sal, you are correct. I think we are debating the character of the man who will be the majority owner of the Islanders the next two years, and then have a vested minority share thereafter. This is not a man I would chose to do business with because of the behavior he has exhibited in past dealings and in this instance with the acceptance of two separate bidders. He is untrustworthy.
Professionals that are licensed such as attorneys and certified public accountants are subject to ethics standards in the performance of their duties. Their work can be brought before ethics boards and committee's and they could be disbarred, censured, have their licenses suspended or revoked.
"Businessmen" that employ such professionals are not bound by these standards, and there is no question that individuals in charge of corporations large or smaller do not act with the highest standards.
In most if not all acquisitions in business of any size, there are normally funds that are held back in escrow for post closing adjustments. These entail protection for the buyer from certain misstatements or misrepresentations. As an example, the quality of listed book inventory or the collectability of accounts receivable that are represented to be of a higher quality than they truly are.
The point I am making is that Charles Wang deals from the bottom of the deck and he is the owner that we count on to provide the paying (and caring fans......us) with information about what we care and pay for.
This man is dishonest to his core. Read his business bio some day. As fans, we are at risk to not only his poor decisions and ineptitude, but to his weak moral compass. When given a choice between right and wrong, people like Wang usually chose wrong if they can gain by it and they think they can get away with it, or better yet, let someone else take the blame if he is caught.
I love this team, but I am very distraught that Wang will still be associated with it.
It is also eye opening to read that some feel that if you can profit from it, any behavior justifies it.

Bravo!

 

[MJF]

You'd be surprised in business how many times ethics gets thrown out the window. It's all about the almighty dollar, but there is a right and wrong way to go about getting paid. Wang went about it the scummy way if we believe reports.

Yay capitalism!

Corporations do legally shady stuff all the time sadly all for the dollar. Sadly though being ethically bankrupt is not illegal.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but when it comes to Charles Wang, there seems to be a penchant for many here to excuse the behavior.

 

[Isles Junkie]

ethical or unethical, I don't care. The new guys are made out of gold. Barroway was made out of bronze. This is such a huge win for the Islanders. I really don't give a damn how it positively effects Charles Wang. I only care how it affects the Islanders. I'm thrilled that Barroway isn't our new owner. By all accounts, he didn't have the $ to own & operate the franchise any differently than how CWang was running them the last several years.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

ethical or unethical, I don't care. The new guys are made out of gold. Barroway was made out of bronze. This is such a huge win for the Islanders. I really don't give a damn how it positively effects Charles Wang. I only care how it affects the Islanders. I'm thrilled that Barroway isn't our new owner. By all accounts, he didn't have the $ to own & operate the franchise any differently than how CWang was running them the last several years.

No, he didn't....and his partners didn't have as much on their own as they had collectively, either, so there's that, too.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Ethics is a class they teach in business but not something you need to use in real life.

Dollars and ethics are not common place in other countries as the USA portrays it to be.

Look up Governments vs. Ethics in Africa. Look up ethics vs. Corporate america/Corporate world..

What makes Wang bigger than those 2 entities? Nothing at all.

Wang did the right thing for his wallet, NHL Owners, NHL, and capitalism.

Ethics influence dealings. You think ToH or businessmen choose to do business with morally bankrupt Wang if they can avoid it? No.

Ethics and being cheated.....the beauty of capitalism is ethics can be rewarded and conversely can ruin you.

ToH jumped into bed with Ratner so fast there were zipper burns. Wang? NO ONE wanted to deal with that YES OR NO conniving SOB.

And there you have conduct of questionable character influencing business dealings. The college mantra capitalism is evil song is not exactly true...ethics and your reputation carry some heavy weight much more often than any professor will attest to.

Wang's that last resort vendor you hate showing up but once in a blue moon serves you well when you're in a pickle and are willing to get ripped off with damaged goods because you're stuck. Otherwise he's useless turd flies in the grand scheme of things.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Yeah, just a little out of context. Who, 12 years ago, was lining up to buy them? Who wanted 10 years of of the coliseum lease? Now, Barclays and Brooklyn and the value of sports team as TV content in a DVR age the team has value.

Let's not delude ourselves that any of these parties would be interested in this team as just a hockey product when Wang was forking over the cash to buy them and keep them going while he chased his real estate deal.

Did Wang ever attempt to sell the team during that time? Nope, he was 100 percent focused on the lighthouse than the arena, while at the same time floating in the media (ahem...Newsday) the Isles (the entity) lost more than $20 million annually...All of which failed and as soon as BC was announced and still several years remained at NVMC the annual sob story on losses just disappeared. Why? Because he got his way - he found another taker. He doesn't need the story anymore.

Wang publicly regretted buying the team. Really??? Because that flies 100 percent in the face of his actions and what Howie Rose said in a recent interview. Or was that more of the sob story? Maybe Wang wasn't getting HIS way with TOH and Nassau. Certainly, he made back his money on the sale and the some AND in all the deals leaked, he's retaining some form of minority ownership. Wow, the guy stills want to hang around after all this? Or was it all a big story by Wang 'the hero that saved the Islanders?'

 

[Strome18]

Ethics influence dealings. You think ToH or businessmen choose to do business with morally bankrupt Wang if they can avoid it? No.

Ethics and being cheated.....the beauty of capitalism is ethics can be rewarded and conversely can ruin you.

ToH jumped into bed with Ratner so fast there were zipper burns. Wang? NO ONE wanted to deal with that YES OR NO conniving SOB.

And there you have conduct of questionable character influencing business dealings. The college mantra capitalism is evil song is not exactly true...ethics and your reputation carry some heavy weight much more often than any professor will attest to.

Wang's that last resort vendor you hate showing up but once in a blue moon serves you well when you're in a pickle and are willing to get ripped off with damaged goods because you're stuck. Otherwise he's useless turd flies in the grand scheme of things.

A rich turd, sir!

An ethical approach focuses on the intention to act morally as a duty while an economic approach focuses on to promote profit.

Find out more from UK Essays here: http://www.ukessays.com/essays/finance/ethics-and-profits.php#ixzz3Cdv0gzzJ

They say that “Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do”. It is true that morals and values differs for an individual, concerns come in our professional lives. When people at work pressurize you to things, often we ignore our ethics.

For:

- In today’s situation with immense pressure and competition, business and ethics can’t go together.

- A couple of times because we follow ethics, it hinders us from succeeding because it squanders time.

- Ethics are usually bound and nurtured by religion, family values etc. Such forms cannot work well in business where you are expected to be professional and practical.

- A businessman should know how to handle pressure, stress and competition and not how to be ethical.

- We all want to make quick money. In today’s market, being ethical takes a toll on you.

- Ethics unlike a balance sheet don’t have visibility. People today judge you based on money and not ethics.

Against:

- Ethics makes you stronger and independent. People cant deceive you easily.

- Not following ethics makes you a selfish person.

- There is nothing wrong in making profit. But, making profit by unethical means could cost a lot of people harm, mentally.

- Customer’s perspective is to link with a company with ethics and values. They know that will never be forged.

- Being ethical in business creates a sense of responsibility towards society.

Morals and values are extremely individualistic. It’s incorrect to say that you cant succeed if you are ethical in business. You will probably take some more time to succeed. You cant force someone to follow ethics.

http://careerride.com/view.aspx?id=3150

 

[blitzkriegs]

ethical or unethical, I don't care. The new guys are made out of gold. Barroway was made out of bronze. This is such a huge win for the Islanders. I really don't give a damn how it positively effects Charles Wang. I only care how it affects the Islanders. I'm thrilled that Barroway isn't our new owner. By all accounts, he didn't have the $ to own & operate the franchise any differently than how CWang was running them the last several years.

While the 'new guys' are wealthier than Barroway, why would Barroway and his investors go back to the well for an extra $100 million after they got a 'agreed to' price much lower? They wouldn't and nor would you. IMO, Barroway could have got the extra money, but why? He already had an agreed upon price.

You don't agree to buy a car at $20k, than a month later the dealer says $30k, and all those helping you find the $20k purchase have zero interest in now paying $30k for the same car. While the market changed in the interim, Wang was also 'agreeing with' 2 other groups.

Barroway took the risk and was used by Wang to get a BC-based valuation.

 

[Strome18]

While the 'new guys' are wealthier than Barroway, why would Barroway and his investors go back to the well for an extra $100 million after they got a 'agreed to' price much lower? They wouldn't and nor would you. IMO, Barroway could have got the extra money, but why? He already had an agreed upon price.

You don't agree to buy a car at $20k, than a month later the dealer says $30k, and all those helping you find the $20k purchase have zero interest in now paying $30k for the same car. While the market changed in the interim, Wang was also 'agreeing with' 2 other groups.

Barroway took the risk and was used by Wang to get a BC-based valuation.

If Barroway wanted the Isles so bad. He would have pushed to close. The Clippers situation happened and the playing field changed. The owner changed his mind, rightfully so, given that the paperwork was not signed or approved.

Time to move on, Wang played his cards correctly. Barroway could have said I need signature by next week. He could have gotten the money earlier. Was there time spent or wasted in between, I hedge to say "YES" unequivocally.

 

[CREW99AW]

Ethics influence dealings. You think ToH or businessmen choose to do business with morally bankrupt Wang if they can avoid it? No.

Ethics and being cheated.....the beauty of capitalism is ethics can be rewarded and conversely can ruin you.

ToH jumped into bed with Ratner so fast there were zipper burns. Wang? NO ONE wanted to deal with that YES OR NO conniving SOB.

.

I guess the previous owners, the ones between Pickett and Wang, were all morally bankrupt too?
Those upright TOH pols were not practicing partisan politics over the yrs?

And I would say the TOH pols jumped into bed with Ratner because the isles had signed a 25 yr Barclays lease. The Isles Coliseum lease was coming to an end. The County had to have someone renovate the Coliseum and move a tenant in.

 

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

[/B]


- Ethics are usually bound and nurtured by religion, family values etc. Such forms cannot work well in business where you are expected to be professional and practical.

- A businessman should know how to handle pressure, stress and competition and not how to be ethical.

http://careerride.com/view.aspx?id=3150

WTF is this garbage? I don't remember the golden rule being "Treat others as you would want to be treated, unless money is involved."

Yeah, yeah, this makes Wang no different than probably most owners. But that doesn't mean I have to admire, respect, or not be disgusted by the way he does business.

 

[Isles Junkie]

While the 'new guys' are wealthier than Barroway, why would Barroway and his investors go back to the well for an extra $100 million after they got a 'agreed to' price much lower? They wouldn't and nor would you. IMO, Barroway could have got the extra money, but why? He already had an agreed upon price.

You don't agree to buy a car at $20k, than a month later the dealer says $30k, and all those helping you find the $20k purchase have zero interest in now paying $30k for the same car. While the market changed in the interim, Wang was also 'agreeing with' 2 other groups.

Barroway took the risk and was used by Wang to get a BC-based valuation.

Sucks for Barroway. In the end the Islanders franchise is in better shape than they would have been with Barroway owning us. That's really all i care about.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Sucks for Barroway. In the end the Islanders franchise is in better shape than they would have been with Barroway owning us. That's really all i care about.

The 'newer' owners are flush with cash. However, let's see what that actually means in terms of the on ice product and the teams management/operations.

 

[Strome18]

WTF is this garbage? I don't remember the golden rule being "Treat others as you would want to be treated, unless money is involved."

Yeah, yeah, this makes Wang no different than probably most owners. But that doesn't mean I have to admire, respect, or not be disgusted by the way he does business.

Your personal feelings would have no bearing on any business deals, including this one. Though if your millions were on the line, I think you would think twice.