Nurse once again Edmonton Oilers' top prospect in Fall 2014 Top 20

[McDNicks17]

I don't really understand the "better players on the board" argument, but that's probably because I really don't get the hype for Nichushkin.

He's got a great set of tools, but I don't know why lots of people act like he blew the doors off the NHL in his rookie season.

23 of his 28 points at 5v5 came with Benn and Seguin.

GF/20 with Benn: 1.542
GF/20 with Seguin: 1.345

GF/20 without Benn: 0.255
GF/20 without Seguin: 0.384

 

[McAsuno]

Good grief at Raab's comments.

 

[azashi]

At first I think they did but by the end Nurse had dropped.

That was a wacky draft board. You can see the Flyers mentality in it - size and nastiness have a lot of value to them.

 

[Moose Coleman]

I said 20-30 range if he wasn't 6'4". Would you guys be as excited about him if he was say 6'1"?

I probably would have passed on Crosby if he had lost both his feet in a freak accident with a wheat thresher.

 

[Senor Catface]

I probably would have passed on Crosby if he had lost both his feet in a freak accident with a wheat thresher.

I bet if Lemieux was 4'11 and had no arms, he would have really fallen in his draft year.

 

[Fourier]

In regards to draft position I stand by that comment. Nurse is our most overrated prospect since Schremp. We passed over better prospects to pick him. If he wasn't 6'4" he'd have been picked in the 20-40 range because he doesn't have the hockey IQ. I said it at the draft and I'll continue to support it until I'm proven wrong which I hope he does. But I just don't see that top pairing dman in him that some of you guys seem to think he'll be.

What is your claim about him lacking hockey IQ based on? Personal viewings or did you read it somewhere. If it I based on personal viewings then perhaps you can explain how you came to this conclusion since it seems to be 180 degrees opposite of what I have seen from the pro scouts. (and what I personally would have said based on my own observations).

If you read this please let me know where because I have never seen anyone say this. Though it is easy to find lots of info that suggest he has a very high hockey IQ>

 

[OilTastic]

And some scouts had him (Nurse) in the second round....

Says who? You can't just say that without some proof.

^and if a few team scouts honestly had Nurse in the 2nd round, they should be fired !! Nurse is EASILY a 1st round talent.

 

[Raab]

What is your claim about him lacking hockey IQ based on? Personal viewings or did you read it somewhere. If it I based on personal viewings then perhaps you can explain how you came to this conclusion since it seems to be 180 degrees opposite of what I have seen from the pro scouts. (and what I personally would have said based on my own observations).

If you read this please let me know where because I have never seen anyone say this. Though it is easy to find lots of info that suggest he has a very high hockey IQ>

Personal viewings, he makes bad pinches and steps up on guys and puts himself out of position. I'm not the only one with that opinion as that was the reason he was left off team canada last year. I didn't see much of him last year so maybe he's improved.

 

[Raab]

^and if a few team scouts honestly had Nurse in the 2nd round, they should be fired !! Nurse is EASILY a 1st round talent.

It was one of the broadcasters forget who but they said that some scouts had Nurse as low as the second round. There was so much parity in that draft that anyone ranked in the top 20 could have easily went top 10 so it's not surprising. Also if a scout doesn't think his game will translate its easy to see why they'd rate him that low when guys like Fucale and JDR were going early in the 2nd round.

 

[Aceonfire*]

I agree that us Oil fans tend to overrate Nurse to a degree. But some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

Hockey IQ is overrated.

Taylor Fedun was a brilliant hockey player who always made smart plays. The reason he isn't in the NHL is that he doesn't have the tools or skill set to compliment that trait.

Nurse is intelligent, hard working, skilled and most of all mean. People are underrating how important that is. How would Nichushkin have made the Oilers harder to play against?

Nurse is going to bring something we haven't had on the team since Torres and Pronger left. Nastiness..

 

[Raab]

We didn't pass over better prospects to pick Nurse. He was the guy ranked to go there. If he wasn't 6'4, he would be a totally different player. That's like me saying Nugent-Hopkins wouldn't have went first overall if he didn't have such great vision. Of course he wouldn't, that's a huge part of his game. Skilled 6'4 is hard to come by. Skilled 6'4 on the frame of a hard worker is almost impossible to come by. Nurse isn't overrated, you are simply underrating him.

Avatar bet that Nurse isn't a top pairing d man within 3 seasons? I'd go longer but who knows if we'll still both be on HFboards that long. I've seen the Oilers do this with other prospects. Writers and media build them up to be the second coming then they get here and they're not all that.

 

[Raab]

I agree that us Oil fans tend to overrate Nurse to a degree. But some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

Hockey IQ is overrated.

Taylor Fedun was a brilliant hockey player who always made smart plays. The reason he isn't in the NHL is that he doesn't have the tools or skill set to compliment that trait.

Nurse is intelligent, hard working, skilled and most of all mean. People are underrating how important that is. How would Nichushkin have made the Oilers harder to play against?

Nurse is going to bring something we haven't had on the team since Torres and Pronger left. Nastiness..

In a defenceman hockey IQ should be the number 1 attribute you look for. Nurse's nastiness is also what gets him in trouble and out of position.

 

[Aceonfire*]

In a defenceman hockey IQ should be the number 1 attribute you look for. Nurse's nastiness is also what gets him in trouble and out of position.

I disagree to an extant.

Like I said, Fedun was a brilliant prospect but he didn't have the speed, or skill set to make in the NHL.

Teubert was the polar opposite. He was all size and nastiness but he couldn't position himself out of a wet paper bag.

You need a combination of everything.

And when it comes to Nurse, his Hockey IQ isn't an issue. It was his decision making skills that were questioned early on. But that had more to do with immaturity and lack of experience than anything.

Remember that Nurse's draft stock climbed higher than most other prospects in 2013. He was largely a shutdown D in his previous season but when given a larger role and time on the PP his offensive numbers quadrupled. A D playing 30 minutes a night in a new role against other teams top players is bound to make mistakes.

Based on what I have seen and read from the Jasper camp and the WJ exhibition games, he has matured and he takes less risks offensively. He was still a physical threat and he competed hard but was able to contain the smaller forwards with his skating ability.

I understand why some would be wary of Nurse. But it isn't his decision making ability I am worried about. Its his offensive ability. His shot isn't good enough to man the point on the PP and if he plays it to safe he wont want to jump up and make a play when needed.

 

[Fourier]

Personal viewings, he makes bad pinches and steps up on guys and puts himself out of position. I'm not the only one with that opinion as that was the reason he was left off team canada last year. I didn't see much of him last year so maybe he's improved.

Even if you buy this you need to put it in context. The issue was not the lack of hockey IQ but the sense that he might be too aggressive for the big ice in Europe. They wanted him to play a "simple game." This is not the same as lacking a hockey IQ. Wayne Gretzky I believe would have been considered to have a decent hockey IQ, but he did not play a simple game.

That said I think that the vast majority of people question the wisdom of this decision. It seems that much of the concern rose from a couple of mistakes he made in the Subway series. He was solid as rock for the Soo last year. This kid is a terrific athlete who also happens to be very intelligent. And while intellect off the ice does not always translate to intelligence, on the ice it does help when it comes to being able to understand and learn from one's mistakes. Nurse made a conscious effort to temper his aggressiveness somewhat last year and did so with great success.

I doubt that you could have watched much of Nurse last year and come to the conclusion you do. Of course there is no guarantee that he becomes a top end defender at the next level, but he is full value for his draft position. And I say this despite the fact that I would have been perfectly happy with either Horvat or Lazar at the time of the pick.

 

[Aerchon]

Nurse from what I have seen and heard really really reminds me of Phanuef.

I've also heard he is supposed to be better defensively but from what I've seen and other stuff i've heard he all too often seems to cheat towards a big hit or offensively.

I will be very impressed if the Oilers do send him back down after a brief trial in the NHL this year. He still seems very raw and I think he is a prospect that will need some patience before we see his top end.

I think of all our blue chip D prospects, Marincin, Klefbom, and Nurse, he has the biggest potential to either boom or bust.

Marincin's low end appears to be a top 4 D-man... so far (small sample size). Klefbom's low end seems like a solid bottom pairing type. Nurse is much younger and far less proven but I would have to say at this point Nurse's low end could be to never be a regular NHL D-man period. Highly unlikely, yes but still possible with what we have see to date.

He is not an offensive dynamo or defensive stalwart. He has not yet (almost) grown into his body enough to be physically dominate in the NHL. His skating, shooting, passing, hockey IQ, size, vision... none of his skill sets suggest "elite". But all of those skills are damn good and if he can figure out how to use those skills correctly we may well end up with one of the best D-men in the game.

Its the simple truth D-men generally take longer to develop and even drafted as high as he was still a crap shoot. Nurse is no Doughty, we can all agree on that, so we most likely won't see him "good" in the NHL until 23-25 I would guess.

 

[OilTastic]

It was one of the broadcasters forget who but they said that some scouts had Nurse as low as the second round. There was so much parity in that draft that anyone ranked in the top 20 could have easily went top 10 so it's not surprising. Also if a scout doesn't think his game will translate its easy to see why they'd rate him that low when guys like Fucale and JDR were going early in the 2nd round.

i can accept that this is what you may have heard somewhere, but despite one scouts opinion, the reality is that Nurse never would have slipped to the second round because he's just not a second round talent. and comparing him to Fucale isn't a good comparison simply because i don't believe Fucale was ever going to go anywhere near the top ten, and it never surprises me when a player ranked near the bottom of the first round goes in the second. the fact that most rational scouts never would have let Nurse ever fall to the second tells me that most have good hockey sense. Nurse may actually be ready to play NHL hockey full time this year and he's only 19!

 

[Up the Irons]

In regards to draft position I stand by that comment. Nurse is our most overrated prospect since Schremp. We passed over better prospects to pick him. If he wasn't 6'4" he'd have been picked in the 20-40 range because he doesn't have the hockey IQ. I said it at the draft and I'll continue to support it until I'm proven wrong which I hope he does. But I just don't see that top pairing dman in him that some of you guys seem to think he'll be.

uh, what? exaggerate much? Listen, if i can get this bitcoin thing figured out, i will bet you $100 (in whatever bitcoin is) that Nurse will amount to a helluva lot better player than Schremp (who could crack the Oilers or Islanders lineup!!!).

 

[Senor Catface]

Personal viewings, he makes bad pinches and steps up on guys and puts himself out of position. I'm not the only one with that opinion as that was the reason he was left off team canada last year. I didn't see much of him last year so maybe he's improved.

So, you haven't see him play in his post-draft year, one of the most important years of development before professional hockey, and you still have the audacity to act like a scout. If you're going to use yourself as the only resource of why Nurse has low IQ shouldn't you be watching him play over the span of you know...a year? Your argument on his low hockey IQ now has no fundamental basis now. Your defense was your viewings. And then you admit you've barely seen him play and no one else has made comments on his lower IQ but you, so again, that noise was a fizzle if you were curious.

It was one of the broadcasters forget who but they said that some scouts had Nurse as low as the second round. There was so much parity in that draft that anyone ranked in the top 20 could have easily went top 10 so it's not surprising. Also if a scout doesn't think his game will translate its easy to see why they'd rate him that low when guys like Fucale and JDR were going early in the 2nd round.

What a coincidence. The only person that said he was a 2nd round pick was someone you "forgot" quoting "some scouts." No. Do the work. Find how who said it and build your case. Otherwise, it's lying to make a player look bad because we didn't take whatever other shiny new toy you like. Don't come in here claiming things that "people" said if you can't prove it.

 

[oilz89*]

Nurse from what I have seen and heard really really reminds me of Phanuef.

I've also heard he is supposed to be better defensively but from what I've seen and other stuff i've heard he all too often seems to cheat towards a big hit or offensively.

I will be very impressed if the Oilers do send him back down after a brief trial in the NHL this year. He still seems very raw and I think he is a prospect that will need some patience before we see his top end.

I think of all our blue chip D prospects, Marincin, Klefbom, and Nurse, he has the biggest potential to either boom or bust.

Marincin's low end appears to be a top 4 D-man... so far (small sample size). Klefbom's low end seems like a solid bottom pairing type. Nurse is much younger and far less proven but I would have to say at this point Nurse's low end could be to never be a regular NHL D-man period. Highly unlikely, yes but still possible with what we have see to date.

He is not an offensive dynamo or defensive stalwart. He has not yet (almost) grown into his body enough to be physically dominate in the NHL. His skating, shooting, passing, hockey IQ, size, vision... none of his skill sets suggest "elite". But all of those skills are damn good and if he can figure out how to use those skills correctly we may well end up with one of the best D-men in the game.

Its the simple truth D-men generally take longer to develop and even drafted as high as he was still a crap shoot. Nurse is no Doughty, we can all agree on that, so we most likely won't see him "good" in the NHL until 23-25 I would guess.

If he turns out to be a Dion Phaneuf but with a better attitude then its a win for us imo

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

So, you haven't see him play in his post-draft year, one of the most important years of development before professional hockey, and you still have the audacity to act like a scout. If you're going to use yourself as the only resource of why Nurse has low IQ shouldn't you be watching him play over the span of you know...a year? Your argument on his low hockey IQ now has no fundamental basis now. Your defense was your viewings. And then you admit you've barely seen him play and no one else has made comments on his lower IQ but you, so again, that noise was a fizzle if you were curious.




What a coincidence. The only person that said he was a 2nd round pick was someone you "forgot" quoting "some scouts." No. Do the work. Find how who said it and build your case. Otherwise, it's lying to make a player look bad because we didn't take whatever other shiny new toy you like. Don't come in here claiming things that "people" said if you can't prove it.

well said. It's hard to take Raab's "scouting" seriously when he spouts garbage like this. It's up there with "Hall has third line skill upside"

I can't wait for Nurse to do great, because I have the bust of 2013 post saved.

 

[40oz]

I agree that us Oil fans tend to overrate Nurse to a degree. But some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

Hockey IQ is overrated.

Taylor Fedun was a brilliant hockey player who always made smart plays. The reason he isn't in the NHL is that he doesn't have the tools or skill set to compliment that trait.

Nurse is intelligent, hard working, skilled and most of all mean. People are underrating how important that is. How would Nichushkin have made the Oilers harder to play against?

Nurse is going to bring something we haven't had on the team since Torres and Pronger left. Nastiness..

I disagree with you about Fedun, who is indeed an intelligent individual (and has the credentials to prove it) but his hockey IQ has always seemed pretty average to me. He sees the ice well and shows good patience, but in my viewing a he's never shown the ability to read the play at a higher level than others on the ice.

 

[oilinblood]

I dont understand the mindset here.
If a prospect goes into a draft with no lackings...he would be picked 1st overall and be the only prospect to be great in everything. Gretzky, lemieux, crosby, stamkos, doughty, pronger, niedermayer all had lackings when drafted/their player rights owned by a pro team. There has NEVER in the history of HISTORY EVER been a prospect that EVER was a master in all elements. Orr even had some small lackings and question marks.

Part of the reason Nurse was left off the junior team was because he is a physical beast and euro teams love to whine and cry about the canadian checking game. Canadain brass was open about being worried about both; Nurse making an ill advised pinch on the big ice, and second that Nurse would lay out his big hits and put a few euros into the ER...and Canada into penalty and suspension situations (different rules...akin to figure skating). Junior hockey tournament U20 is not a real hockey tournament...its Canadians trying to adapt to ballet on ice. In a country with as much talent to fill four teams the Canadians simply did the right thing and tried to make a team that could win a european style hockey based tourney. They failed because one or two key players, not naming names, tried to make it their tournament and instead of playing as a team those individual players tried to hot dog.

Its all pretty obvious.

Im not even a homer on any issue concerning the Oilers. I like to see both sides and watch how other organizations are run for further comparison.

To say Nurse is a modern version of the Schremp pick is rediculous. His own junior coach didnt give him a vote. He dropped like a stone. It was seen as the riskiest pick in the entire draft by unanimous reviews. Nurse was seen as a unanimous choice to go in the range he did.
You are comparing a known bad pick, that was called a bad pick by every team in the nhl not home based in edmonton, with a pick that was taken in the range he should have gone.

This isnt really a debate.
As far as Nurse goes he has the ability to be a very well rounded nhl defenseman. I can see him running a pp. I can see him being a shut down and pk defenseman. Other dmen of that 1-20 range i can see only being good in a couple areas as their ceiling. Nurse i can see having a very well rounded, master of all trades, game.
There is also a difference between a dman that has a ceiling where you can see him being your first choice in all areas of the game...and a dman that will carve his niche as a go to first choice in one aspect of the game.

 

[The Nuge]

Despite HF hating him because he was an Oil King, Moroz is our best forward prospect right now (aside from LD obviously), and it isn't really very close.

Couldn't disagree with you more. Moroz gets flack because he was selected about 20 spots higher than people though he would be (even though there were teams right after us that wanted him). And I've definitely got Yakimov as our top forward prospect. Moroz is #4 imo.

 

[oilz89*]

Couldn't disagree with you more. Moroz gets flack because he was selected about 20 spots higher than people though he would be (even though there were teams right after us that wanted him). And I've definitely got Yakimov as our top forward prospect. Moroz is #4 imo.

Agreed. Both are physical beasts too which is a huge plus

 

[Dorian2]

At first I think they did but by the end Nurse had dropped.

Thanks for posting that raab.

Now what would be interesting is watching the process for the Oilers and noting how they go about it in the same draft.