Number One Defensemen in NHL

[Raccoon Jesus]

You know, that's a great way to look at it.

Use Rielly as an example since the OP mentioned the Leafs. When used as the #1 guy to go against top lines, the other teams are at the advantage, not the Leafs. Whereas if Rielly is leading the 2nd pairing as the top guy, he excels in that role instead of trying to just hang on.

Kind of how I feel as well. Guys like Reilly, Muzzin, Hamilton, etc. are fantastic players in their own right but if they have to consistently face top competition or play over 20-22ish all-situation minutes a night, their play starts to suffer. as you go deeper in the playoffs vs. stronger opponents and controlled matchups, that's when these guys gets exposed unless they're on a hot streak--that consistency is what separates them from the 'true' #1 types. I'd feel wholly comfortable (and frankly you'd have one of the best d-cores in the league) with any of these guys as a #2 complement or #3 guy leading the pairing, but though they can function as a #1 in bursts, long-term, they're not ideal.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Where does Byfuglien fall in all this?

 

[Kingspiracy]

List starts with Karlsson.

Sure, if we're starting from the bottom

 

[firstemperor]

I'd easily have Josi above Subban, probably Ekholm above him too.

Hence why I put Josi and Subban as #1A. But your going to get a lot of disagreements internally with Pred fans on this site regardless.

I suggested Subban was underwhelming last season and got a bit of a pass (which was true, though you still give him the benefit if the doubt- new team and all) and that Ellis was probably the most consistently good d-man last year.....Ekholm the most consistently impactful, though Subban clearly outplayed Ekholm in the playoffs. Thought Subban did peak when it mattered, per usual (i.e. playoffs).

But ultimately, I weigh a bit of totality, pedigree, and peak play in my rankings. A bit subjective either way.

Good list but I think Josi is a 1A

He was actually the one player that I had #1A and edited him out to #1B. Probably borderline for sure. I feel strongly that Weber and a few of the others are not #1A d-men though. Not in the new NHL. And I was being a bit conservative with players like him and basing it a lot on pedigree.

 

[JD1]

So evaluate players on their teams success, not their own performance?

is your objective when
you step on the ice to win?

a high end D tilts the ice in your favour 28 minutes a night....that tends to lead to team success....without that success the ice probably isn't tilted and if the ice isn't tilted then your D probably isn't as high end as the optimistic fan believes he is.

So Philly. ... eventually for guys like Provo and Ghost to be considered elite they need to have some team success

 

[Kase]

Where does Byfuglien fall in all this?

He is a tough one for sure. I mean, you could say he is a low end #1, because he gets pretty good results, but I sure wouldn't want him to be my team's 1D.

 

[firstemperor]

Where does Byfuglien fall in all this?

To be frank, he's closer to a Gardiner type, #2/#3. Spurts of looking like a #1 but just too bad/inconsistent at times to even approach that of a #1. Both have elements to their game that make you think they should be better, but they are close to being who they are as players....I think consistency plays a big part in designating a player a #1, #2, #3.

 

[LeafFever]

Which list is that? The "I've never been better than Drew Doughty" list? The list is long my friend and has many, many members including Karlsson so don't feel too badly.

Did I miss the past 2 years?

 

[aufheben]

I think he's trying to say that Karlsson's too good to be considered a number one defenseman, so he's a number zero defenseman.

This is how I'm choosing to interperate it.

 

[GodEmperor]

the most surprising thing in my day so far is this thread isn't full of Leaf fans arguing for Reilly to be included

Typical Leafs bashing nonsense, most Leafs fans thought Gardiner had a far better year last year and was much closer to being a #1 than Reilly.

Reilly is off to a great start this year and if he keeps it up, he can be in the conversation. No one thinks he is a legit #1 (top 15 lock and not sliding up and down a ton based on season performance) as of yet.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Someone should do a series of polls. Is X a #1 defenceman, settle on a list of guys in this thread to do, and vote on all of them. I'm of the opinion that there are 31 guys by definition. That's not to say you'd be happy being the 31st team with that guy as your #1 guy. But I disagree that there only being 15-20 guys you want being your #1D and cup contending means there are only that many.

Karlsson, Weber, Hedman, Ekblad
Letang, McDonagh, Slavin, Faulk, Jones, Werenski, Provorov, Carlson, Niskanen
Suter, Keith, Subban, Josi, Ellis, Klingberg, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Trouba, Byfuglien, Barrie
Burns, OEL, Doughty, Lindholm, Fowler, Hamilton, Klefbom

Damn it got difficult at the end there to find all 31. I can see why some of you don`t like to subscribe to the there`s 31 of everything theory

edit: I may have missed some, Vlasic, and Gio are likely better than a bunch of those guys.

 

[Viqsi]

Typical Leafs bashing nonsense

It's more recognizing that the Leafs have an unfortunately large number of fans who are homeristic, delusional, pushy, and vocal to the point that they drown out almost everyone else. Fortunately, they seem to have mostly avoided this thread so far.

 

[Daveyyaunce]

is your objective when
you step on the ice to win?

a high end D tilts the ice in your favour 28 minutes a night....that tends to lead to team success....without that success the ice probably isn't tilted and if the ice isn't tilted then your D probably isn't as high end as the optimistic fan believes he is.

So Philly. ... eventually for guys like Provo and Ghost to be considered elite they need to have some team success

So by that logic, Mcdavids team hasn't had a high level of team success so that makes makes him not an elite player, no?

 

[GodEmperor]

It's more recognizing that the Leafs have an unfortunately large number of fans who are homeristic, delusional, pushy, and vocal to the point that they drown out almost everyone else. Fortunately, they seem to have mostly avoided this thread so far.

OR you cherry pick a few fans in the same way I could say that JetsHomer means that all Winnipeg fans are mindless drones who can only bash Toronto.

Feel free to actually go to the Leafs sub and see what they say about Reilly instead of creating caricatures off of a few posters.

 

[JD1]

Typical Leafs bashing nonsense, most Leafs fans thought Gardiner had a far better year last year and was much closer to being a #1 than Reilly.

Reilly is off to a great start this year and if he keeps it up, he can be in the conversation. No one thinks he is a legit #1 (top 15 lock and not sliding up and down a ton based on season performance) as of yet.

I don' think it's leaf bashing at all

Were you around the boards over the summer? Did you see the threads re Reilly #1D?

 

[JD1]

OR you cherry pick a few fans in the same way I could say that JetsHomer means that all Winnipeg fans are mindless drones who can only bash Toronto.

Feel free to actually go to the Leafs sub and see what they say about Reilly instead of creating caricatures off of a few posters.

most people don' frequent the boards of other teams. This main board here....I got fed a steady diet f Reilly all summer.

 

[JD1]

So by that logic, Mcdavids team hasn't had a high level of team success so that makes makes him not an elite player, no?

McD's team looked ok last year no? made the playoffs

 

[Canada4Gold]

Those Damn Wild fans should stop shoving Reilly down your throat I guess.

 

[Viqsi]

OR you cherry pick a few fans in the same way I could say that JetsHomer means that all Winnipeg fans are mindless drones who can only bash Toronto.

Feel free to actually go to the Leafs sub and see what they say about Reilly instead of creating caricatures off of a few posters.

Hon, I was empathizing, not criticizing.

 

[Daveyyaunce]

McD's team looked ok last year no? made the playoffs

And the flyers weren't far off from making it. Do you genuinely believe that had they made it that it would have made the difference in whether or not a player on their team would have been elite? You genuinely think that is a logical measurement in an assesment of an individual players talent?

 

[Lame Staley]

#1 Dmen qualities:

-Quarterbacks the power-play and is one of the leading scorers amongst dmen on his own team
-Used against other teams best players every shift
-Can be a one-man breakout in his own zone or makes seamless outlet passes
-Is a winner (International success, individual trophies, Stanley Cups and or post-season success)
-Leads by example
-Is durable
-Consistent.'

So who are they?
Doughty, Karlsson, Josi, Subban, Keith, Hedman, Burns, Pietrangelo, Weber, Letang

 

[JD1]

And the flyers weren't far off from making it. Do you genuinely believe that had they made it that it would have made the difference in whether or not a player on their team would have been elite? You genuinely think that is a logical measurement in an assesment of an individual players talent?

but they didn't did they?

leveraging your individual talent to achieve team success is what it's about. the history of this game is that those who have achieved team success end up viewed more favourably individually

 

[Spazkat]

So evaluate players on their teams success, not their own performance?

Eh, it's how Toews has been graded most of his career, so why not?

 

[Tripod]

is your objective when
you step on the ice to win?

a high end D tilts the ice in your favour 28 minutes a night....that tends to lead to team success....without that success the ice probably isn't tilted and if the ice isn't tilted then your D probably isn't as high end as the optimistic fan believes he is.

So Philly. ... eventually for guys like Provo and Ghost to be considered elite they need to have some team success

That makes no sense. OEL is a #1Dman...does anyone dispute this? And he has played on awful teams his whole career.

Then you also have guys like Parayko who people are saying are #1Dmen yet has never had to be a #1 and gets easier minutes to to Pietrangelo.

Context matters.

 

[Daveyyaunce]

but they didn't did they?

leveraging your individual talent to achieve team success is what it's about. the history of this game is that those who have achieved team success end up viewed more favourably individually

Gotcha. Throw objectivity out the window, ignore context and value individuals on the success of their team.