North \ Canadian Division - Defense

[Dion TheFluff]

Leafs should have got Tanev instead of Brodie. Huge fail on their pro scouting

yeah total fail! Brodie has only fit like a glove.

 

[The Assclown]

This thread is HF in a nutshell. Terrible takes followed by a told-you-so bump.

 

[Pi]

yeah the Leafs defence is totally garbage ranking 6th in GA per game and 7th in SA per game....

Dubas has been fantastic in building the Leafs D. It's amazing that we no longer have a coach that does shit his way out of spite.

Babcock hated Muzzin trade and backhandedly said it was just okay and he wished he could play RD but it is what it is. Sat Holl for 71 games when he was one of the best D to come from the Marlies just because he was a Dubas guy. Turns out the guy who coached him in the AHL knew a thing or two about Holl and his top 4 potential.

Brodie is like a 100x better than Brodie too and the same goes for Bogosian over Ceci.

Doing what this team has done in this high scoring division is incredible. 4 of the top 7 high scoring teams are in the North, even the teams that aren't scoring as much like Vancouver, Calgary, Sens are right there with the pack and not totally devoid of offense like the Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Preds etc.

 

[RogerR]

Ranking Leafs below Sens was always hilarious.

 

[hockeeyyy]

My favourite post in this thread was the one calling the Habs defense a mobile one.

 

[Cotton]

This thread is HF in a nutshell. Terrible takes followed by a told-you-so bump.

The takes are terrible, but the bump is always just as bad.

 

[Critical13]

Leafs are overflowing with good Dmen. We were told so in the offseason. We were told they had 5 top 4 Dmen(Holl and Dermott in the 5). Then Sandin who could be one too this year.

They look pretty good so far.

 

[pictman]

Goals against:
JETS- 53 - 2.65 av
LEAFS- 55 - 2.5 av
HABS- 60 - 3.0 av
FLAMES- 65 - 2.95 av
OILERS- 69 - 3.0 av
CANUCKS- 85 - 3.54 av
SENATORS-91 - 3.96 av

So how do you judge the best defense. The best D man ? The biggest D core ? The D core with the best reputation ? The D core with the best puck movers ? The best team defense ? It ain't that easy ! But goals against disagrees with alot of what has been said here.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

The takes are terrible, but the bump is always just as bad.

I wish people didn’t do that, it’s so petty. People had a hot take at the beginning of the season, who cares?

 

[DitchMarner]

yeah the Leafs defence is totally garbage ranking 6th in GA per game and 7th in SA per game....

And for a guy who "seemed kinda washed up," Matthews has turned things around quite significantly, hasn't he?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Hf has done it again.

Quite an incredible thread. Big shout out goes to regular contributors Getz2noone and LuckyLarry.

Keep on trucking lads, keep on trucking. One day you'll get there.

 

[All Mod Cons]

This thread is HF in a nutshell. Terrible takes followed by a told-you-so bump.

Meh. These clown threads absolutely deserve the bump.

You say something incredibly stupid, you deserve to be ridiculed. It's the only way the world will get better.

 

[Zybalto]

Goals against:
JETS- 53 - 2.65 av
LEAFS- 55 - 2.5 av
HABS- 60 - 3.0 av
FLAMES- 65 - 2.95 av
OILERS- 69 - 3.0 av
CANUCKS- 85 - 3.54 av
SENATORS-91 - 3.96 av

So how do you judge the best defense. The best D man ? The biggest D core ? The D core with the best reputation ? The D core with the best puck movers ? The best team defense ? It ain't that easy ! But goals against disagrees with alot of what has been said here.

Yea, its tough to figure out sometimes the actual impact of elite offensive/transition Dmen as, if the end result is you still outscore your opponent, isnt that just as good as anything else?

Most fans consider a good D as being capable of keeping the puck outta the net though, and so you are onto the right track with your list there of what a good D is to most fans, most of the time.

Goals against is only the end result of the story though. How did the teams get there?

Traditionally, shots against has been the way to judge a teams overall D although the xGA stat has picked up in popularity over that last ten years of the analytics boom. Lets take a look at how North division teams rank in these two categories using the /60 approach (the most accurate methood):


Fewest all situations shots/60:
1. Toronto: 28.47
2. Montreal: 28.68
3. Calgary: 30.68
4. Ottawa: 31.27
5. Winnipeg: 31.79
6. Edmonton: 32.33
7. Vancouver: 32.7

Fewest all situations xGA/60:
1. Toronto: 2.5
2. Calgary: 2.51
3. Montreal: 2.57
4. Ottawa: 2.71
5. Edmonton: 2.73
6. Winnipeg: 2.92
7. Vancouver: 3.19


Certainly a similar result which shows why shots against is still a valuable stats to look at, even to the most hardcore analytics folks. This alone wont get you Goals against though as the other half of the goals against puzzle is goaltending of course. Lets see how the teams stack up there:


Team save % rankings:
1. Winnipeg: 91.89
2. Toronto: 91.27
3. Edmonton: 90.73
4. Calgary: 90.43
5. Montreal: 90.03
6. Vancouver: 89.21
7. Ottawa: 87.47

Goalkeeping tells you the other half of the story of why teams are where they are when it comes to goals against.

The teams with the best D are Toronto, Montreal and Calgary and Toronto has been getting quality goalkeeping to go with its top of the division defensive numbers which is why they have the goals against numbers they have. Ottawa is actually a middle of the pack defensive team with the most brutal goalkeeping in the division which is why they are getting run over many nights....and why they surprise some teams when their goalies have good games.

Winnipeg is the most interesting of the bunch as they have really bad defensive stats but have, by far, the best goaltending in the division.

Just some numbers to chew on for y'all....

 

[RogerR]

Meh. These clown threads absolutely deserve the bump.

You say something incredibly stupid, you deserve to be ridiculed. It's the only way the world will get better.

This.

 

[pictman]

Yea, its tough to figure out sometimes the actual impact of elite offensive/transition Dmen as, if the end result is you still outscore your opponent, isnt that just as good as anything else?

Most fans consider a good D as being capable of keeping the puck outta the net though, and so you are onto the right track with your list there of what a good D is to most fans, most of the time.

Goals against is only the end result of the story though. How did the teams get there?

Traditionally, shots against has been the way to judge a teams overall D although the xGA stat has picked up in popularity over that last ten years of the analytics boom. Lets take a look at how North division teams rank in these two categories using the /60 approach (the most accurate methood):


Fewest all situations shots/60:
1. Toronto: 28.47
2. Montreal: 28.68
3. Calgary: 30.68
4. Ottawa: 31.27
5. Winnipeg: 31.79
6. Edmonton: 32.33
7. Vancouver: 32.7

Fewest all situations xGA/60:
1. Toronto: 2.5
2. Calgary: 2.51
3. Montreal: 2.57
4. Ottawa: 2.71
5. Edmonton: 2.73
6. Winnipeg: 2.92
7. Vancouver: 3.19


Certainly a similar result which shows why shots against is still a valuable stats to look at, even to the most hardcore analytics folks. This alone wont get you Goals against though as the other half of the goals against puzzle is goaltending of course. Lets see how the teams stack up there:


Team save % rankings:
1. Winnipeg: 91.89
2. Toronto: 91.27
3. Edmonton: 90.73
4. Calgary: 90.43
5. Montreal: 90.03
6. Vancouver: 89.21
7. Ottawa: 87.47

Goalkeeping tells you the other half of the story of why teams are where they are when it comes to goals against.

The teams with the best D are Toronto, Montreal and Calgary and Toronto has been getting quality goalkeeping to go with its top of the division defensive numbers which is why they have the goals against numbers they have. Ottawa is actually a middle of the pack defensive team with the most brutal goalkeeping in the division which is why they are getting run over many nights....and why they surprise some teams when their goalies have good games.

Winnipeg is the most interesting of the bunch as they have really bad defensive stats but have, by far, the best goaltending in the division.

Just some numbers to chew on for y'all....

And from what I can see as a Jets fan is their whole system is designed to just eliminate the high end chances and allow shots that Helly has a high % of stopping. But it is a bit of a wildfire in the D zone and they have big issues getting the puck out of their D zone. I'm not a fan of their D zone play by any means. Yet..... 2nd best goals against average and while alot of that is goaltending there's more to it . Like I said It ain't easy.

 

[rubikscube]

This thread is HF in a nutshell. Terrible takes followed by a told-you-so bump.

*insert trade proposal here for your best player for our 1st+ B-prospect*

 

[The Assclown]

Yea, its tough to figure out sometimes the actual impact of elite offensive/transition Dmen as, if the end result is you still outscore your opponent, isnt that just as good as anything else?

Most fans consider a good D as being capable of keeping the puck outta the net though, and so you are onto the right track with your list there of what a good D is to most fans, most of the time.

Goals against is only the end result of the story though. How did the teams get there?

Traditionally, shots against has been the way to judge a teams overall D although the xGA stat has picked up in popularity over that last ten years of the analytics boom. Lets take a look at how North division teams rank in these two categories using the /60 approach (the most accurate methood):


Fewest all situations shots/60:
1. Toronto: 28.47
2. Montreal: 28.68
3. Calgary: 30.68
4. Ottawa: 31.27
5. Winnipeg: 31.79
6. Edmonton: 32.33
7. Vancouver: 32.7

Fewest all situations xGA/60:
1. Toronto: 2.5
2. Calgary: 2.51
3. Montreal: 2.57
4. Ottawa: 2.71
5. Edmonton: 2.73
6. Winnipeg: 2.92
7. Vancouver: 3.19


Certainly a similar result which shows why shots against is still a valuable stats to look at, even to the most hardcore analytics folks. This alone wont get you Goals against though as the other half of the goals against puzzle is goaltending of course. Lets see how the teams stack up there:


Team save % rankings:
1. Winnipeg: 91.89
2. Toronto: 91.27
3. Edmonton: 90.73
4. Calgary: 90.43
5. Montreal: 90.03
6. Vancouver: 89.21
7. Ottawa: 87.47

Goalkeeping tells you the other half of the story of why teams are where they are when it comes to goals against.

The teams with the best D are Toronto, Montreal and Calgary and Toronto has been getting quality goalkeeping to go with its top of the division defensive numbers which is why they have the goals against numbers they have. Ottawa is actually a middle of the pack defensive team with the most brutal goalkeeping in the division which is why they are getting run over many nights....and why they surprise some teams when their goalies have good games.

Winnipeg is the most interesting of the bunch as they have really bad defensive stats but have, by far, the best goaltending in the division.

Just some numbers to chew on for y'all....

This is the kind of quality I come here for. Even better when it shows just how great the Leafs have been.

 

[hockeeyyy]

And from what I can see as a Jets fan is their whole system is designed to just eliminate the high end chances and allow shots that Helly has a high % of stopping. But it is a bit of a wildfire in the D zone and they have big issues getting the puck out of their D zone. I'm not a fan of their D zone play by any means. Yet..... 2nd best goals against average and while alot of that is goaltending there's more to it . Like I said It ain't easy.

That’s not what the numbers show. They easily give up the most scoring chances and high danger chances per game.

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

their defense needs to be better. This kind of defensive play isn’t sustainable. Eventually the doors will slam open.

 

[MrvJets]

Best defense is the team with the BEST Goalie come playoff time.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Best defense is the team with the BEST Goalie come playoff time.

No, it's not.

 

[napoleon in rags]

The takes are terrible, but the bump is always just as bad.

I like the bumps. If one is going to make predictions, then reviewing those prognoses is warranted. Anyway, it's all fun.

 

[GoBuds14]

Best defense is the team with the BEST Goalie come playoff time.

The top goalies of this generation don’t have Stanley Cup rings, so I’d challenge that statement

 

[ToDavid]

Goals against:
JETS- 53 - 2.65 av
LEAFS- 55 - 2.5 av
HABS- 60 - 3.0 av
FLAMES- 65 - 2.95 av
OILERS- 69 - 3.0 av
CANUCKS- 85 - 3.54 av
SENATORS-91 - 3.96 av

So how do you judge the best defense. The best D man ? The biggest D core ? The D core with the best reputation ? The D core with the best puck movers ? The best team defense ? It ain't that easy ! But goals against disagrees with alot of what has been said here.

That’s the problem with these discussions. Everyone is always talking about something different. The Leafs have good defensemen, they have for a couple years, but what they’ve lacked that they’re getting this season is a whole team buy-in to defense. They’re still a run and gun team, they’re not exactly the Islanders out there, but they’re playing a much more mature game.

 

[Zybalto]

That’s the problem with these discussions. Everyone is always talking about something different. The Leafs have good defensemen, they have for a couple years, but what they’ve lacked that they’re getting this season is a whole team buy-in to defense. They’re still a run and gun team, they’re not exactly the Islanders out there, but they’re playing a much more mature game.

I think most people are sleeping on just how important Keefe has been to the team. It's not just that the Leafs are good defensively this year but its been incredibly consistent from the minute Keefe took over as coach. the big issue last year was goaltending and injuries for the Leafs but the Islanders comparison is a fun one to do so lets check it out:

Leafs vs. Islanders since Nov. 20th, 2019th. Both teams have played 69 games.

Overall records:
Leafs: 43-19-7 (.674, 4th in the NHL)
Isles: 30-26-13 (.529, 21st in the NHL)

Goals for/60:
Leafs: 3.49 (1st in the NHL)
Isles: 2.6 (25th in the NHL)

Goals against was the sticking point here of course...lets check it out:

Shots Against/60:
Leafs: 30.09 (15th in the NHL)
Isles: 29.84 (12th in the NHL)

Expected Goals Against/60:
Leafs: 2.56 (9th in the NHL)
Isles: 2.59 (11th in the NHL)

Team Save%:
Leafs: 90.56 (16th in the NHL)
Isles: 90.82 (11th in the NHL)

Actual Goals Against/60:
Leafs: 2.84 (14th in the NHL)
Isles: 2.74 (9th in the NHL)

Really not too much to choose from defensively between the teams. The acquisition of Campbell really helped the Leafs boost their save% numbers up considerably and the Isles have gotten worse in this department as they lost one half of the best tandem in hockey when Greiss left for the Wings.

All in all, I think Varly is the only reason the Isles do anything better than the Leafs right now. Incredible goaltender. They had a great playoff run though after almost crashing out of the playoffs last year so there is certainly some heart on that team but I wouldnt call them a great defensive team for a while now.

Going by the stats I posted, the best defensive tams in the league during this time were:

Columbus
Boston
Minnesota

...but its been like that for a couple of years now.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think most people are sleeping on just how important Keefe has been to the team. It's not just that the Leafs are good defensively this year but its been incredibly consistent from the minute Keefe took over as coach. the big issue last year was goaltending and injuries for the Leafs but the Islanders comparison is a fun one to do so lets check it out:

Leafs vs. Islanders since Nov. 20th, 2019th. Both teams have played 69 games.

Overall records:
Leafs: 43-19-7 (.674, 4th in the NHL)
Isles: 30-26-13 (.529, 21st in the NHL)

Goals for/60:
Leafs: 3.49 (1st in the NHL)
Isles: 2.6 (25th in the NHL)

Goals against was the sticking point here of course...lets check it out:

Shots Against/60:
Leafs: 30.09 (15th in the NHL)
Isles: 29.84 (12th in the NHL)

Expected Goals Against/60:
Leafs: 2.56 (9th in the NHL)
Isles: 2.59 (11th in the NHL)

Team Save%:
Leafs: 90.56 (16th in the NHL)
Isles: 90.82 (11th in the NHL)

Actual Goals Against/60:
Leafs: 2.84 (14th in the NHL)
Isles: 2.74 (9th in the NHL)

Really not too much to choose from defensively between the teams. The acquisition of Campbell really helped the Leafs boost their save% numbers up considerably and the Isles have gotten worse in this department as they lost one half of the best tandem in hockey when Greiss left for the Wings.

All in all, I think Varly is the only reason the Isles do anything better than the Leafs right now. Incredible goaltender. They had a great playoff run though after almost crashing out of the playoffs last year so there is certainly some heart on that team but I wouldnt call them a great defensive team for a while now.

Going by the stats I posted, the best defensive tams in the league during this time were:

Columbus
Boston
Minnesota

...but its been like that for a couple of years now.

It's not even Keefe. Keef doing regular coach things.

Babcock was intentionally sabotaging the team and his GM.