Norris Discussion: Weber

[deanwormer]

You could be right but I think it will take a couple more years. I suggested this before and will again I would like to see Weber and Josi on different pairs. It is against the grain traditionally but having both those big shots in the same pair could be better used.

I wondered about this when GMDP went after MDZ. *IF* MDZ could put it back together like before, and then Josi with Jones, you get 2 pairs that can play large minutes and better complementary skills spread through the pairs. You can still pair Weber and Josi when you need to lock down a game and on the PK and PP. (and, honestly, it seemed the ONLY thing that made sense in trading KK and it not being packaged with someone(s) else for a top winger).

Moot, cause MDZ clearly hasn't shown he's worth the $2.3 or whatever it'll take for a minimum offer. Also, probably not as necessary to spread those minutes, cause Ellis has shown he can handle 20mins a night and while 42 still has plenty to learn, he sure looks like he's gonna' be 2nd pair material.

But, it sure would be fun to roll those lines, with MDZ opening up the passing lanes and Weber's boomer, followed by Josi and Jones moving puck around and carrying deep and both being able to get off effective shots.

 

[PredsV82]

So Weber finishes the season with 5 less points than Keith but 17 more goals.

someone please eplain how 6G 55A is prohibitively better than 23G 33A

 

[triggrman]

But but +/- or something. I noticed Josi finished with more points than the mighty Doughty.

 

[Enoch]

And Keith has an incredible amount of 2ndary assists over 30.

 

[INDhockeyfan]

So Weber finishes the season with 5 less points than Keith but 17 more goals.

someone please eplain how 6G 55A is prohibitively better than 23G 33A

It isn't considering that Weber pretty much had to do it all himself while Keith had all that scoring power to get all those assists.

 

[Mass]

I would be surprised if he wasn't a finalist. But winning it is another story. Maybe the hot streak convinced some voters. Now that the point differential between him and Keith is only six, I think the chance is much better.

Still not betting on it though.

 

[sparkle twin]

Hey Toronto might even be getting on the Weber bandwagon. Looks like there might be one person at least that thinks he should win.



Opinion of who should win the trophies: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/duhatschek-how-the-major-nhl-trophy-races-should-unfold/article17932946/

James Norris Memorial Trophy

To the defence player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability.

Winner: Shea Weber, Nashville Predators. Runners-up: Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks, Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins.

There are a lot of honourable mentions beyond the front runners. Drew Doughty in Los Angeles and Ryan Suter in Minnesota are catalysts on their respective teams and primary reasons they’re in the playoffs. Chara has had another exceptional year in leading the Bruins to the best record in hockey and Keith has done it all for the Blackhawks. He eats up big minutes and he’s contributed more offensively than in the past couple of years. But on a Nashville Predators team that has never fully recovered from Suter’s loss, Weber has done it all. Offensively, he’s passed the 20-goal plateau and he helps the power play go. Defensively, he’s a scary big-bodied presence. He has twice been the first runner-up for this award – in 2011 and 2012. This year, he should be in the winner’s circle.

 

[Armourboy]

He should be the winner but he won't be, because he plays for Nashville and they didn't make the playoffs. Neither of those have anything to do with being the best in the league, but that will be why.

 

[pekkaslap]

We have to remember these are frontrunning media zombies that are voting this award. Not people who actually know anything about hockey. If it was a GM/Coach voted award Weber would have 2 by now. I don't think he'll be a finalist this year. I think Keith, Chara, Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Suter, possibly Subban could all get more votes than Weber from PHWA this year.

 

[PredsV82]

there is a thread on the main board where many of the hockey writes have revealed their votes for Hart, norris and calder trophies…

Weber currently 3rd narrowly trailing Keith and Chara… mainly because damien Cox and jusitin Bourne didn't list Weber in the top 5 :

 

[Mass]

there is a thread on the main board where many of the hockey writes have revealed their votes for Hart, norris and calder trophies…

Weber currently 3rd narrowly trailing Keith and Chara… mainly because damien Cox and jusitin Bourne didn't list Weber in the top 5 :

Some of those lists are embarrassing. Really shows who pays attention and who's just spit-balling or plus-minus watching. Or just picking the best eastern conference choice

 

[pekkaslap]

Weber wont win a Norris as long as he plays here. He should have at the very least one, probably two by now.

 

[NSH615]

Weber trails by 29 now

 

[101st_fan]

Weber had two very different statistical halves to the season. The 2013 side, 9 goals ... 3 of which were ES goals (only one ESG in Nov-Dec combined), -13, comments from numerous fans questioning his fire and involvement. Then there is 2014 with 14 goals ... 9 of those at ES, +11, and the questions about his drive disappeared for the most part. The first half was one dimensional scoring coupled with being on the ice for a disproportional number of goals against even when factoring in his TOI and then reversing those issues starting around the game 38-40 mark.

The fact remains that only three players in history won the award with a minus rating (including Lidstrom's retirement gift award) and Weber finished -2 ... not a good indicator for Weber based upon over 30 years of awards (not the +/- in a vacuum). An entire season of play like we saw starting around New Year's and Weber is a lock for at least one major individual trophy but a season with the very dramatic statistical split weakens his case ... and that's even when viewed through mustard colored goggles.

 

[PredsV82]

Weber trails by 29 now

now up to 5 or 6 idiots that didnt even list him in their top 5

 

[Enoch]

It is sad, agenda driven, and ignorant.

 

[WartracePred]

Weber had two very different statistical halves to the season. The 2013 side, 9 goals ... 3 of which were ES goals (only one ESG in Nov-Dec combined), -13, comments from numerous fans questioning his fire and involvement. Then there is 2014 with 14 goals ... 9 of those at ES, +11, and the questions about his drive disappeared for the most

An entire season of play like we saw starting around New Year's and Weber is a lock for at least one major individual trophy but a season with the very dramatic statistical split weakens his case ... and that's even when viewed through mustard colored goggles.

The first half of the season Hutton and Maz were sieves, Josi was out or working back into playing shape, & an 18/19 year old rookie was his defensive partner. What kind of +/- rating would anyone expect. None of the other leading Norris candidates would've faired any better on this team. His numbers turned around when Josi was healthy and Hutton only gave up 1 softie per game instead of 3. Before New Years the Preds were a train wreck.

 

[triggrman]

The first half of the season Hutton and Maz were sieves, Josi was out or working back into playing shape, & an 18/19 year old rookie was his defensive partner. What kind of +/- rating would anyone expect. None of the other leading Norris candidates would've faired any better on this team. His numbers turned around when Josi was healthy and Hutton only gave up 1 softie per game instead of 3. Before New Years the Preds were a train wreck.

Good luck with that explanation. I've spit out the same facts time and time again, all they care about is 5-5 play, and why he wasn't producing more offense to start the season.

 

[101st_fan]

Good luck with that explanation. I've spit out the same facts time and time again, all they care about is 5-5 play, and why he wasn't producing more offense to start the season.

Let's all focus on the approximately 1/6 of the game that is spent on special teams rather than the vast majority at even strength. If you want to rant and rave about how great his offense is, explain why Weber went two months where he did not score a goal at ES against a goalie. Like it or not, his scoring was one dimensional. Rarely does such a simple observation supported by evidence generate such visceral emotional responses.

The first half of the season Hutton and Maz were sieves, Josi was out or working back into playing shape, & an 18/19 year old rookie was his defensive partner. What kind of +/- rating would anyone expect. None of the other leading Norris candidates would've faired any better on this team. His numbers turned around when Josi was healthy and Hutton only gave up 1 softie per game instead of 3. Before New Years the Preds were a train wreck.

Nice hyperbole when mentioning Hutton's softies. I noticed that you failed to mention Rinne's crappy play for the first few weeks after his return ... a span where Weber continued to produce. You failed to acknowledge that Mazanec was the NHL rookie of the month in November with a .932 sv% ... a month where Weber's only ES goal was an empty netter. Blame the goalies ... but never mention how often they were hung out to dry. You try to paint it as the team's fault for Weber's slow first half of the season and don't point out that the CAPTAIN was just as guilty as his teammates during that span. The rationalizations here that try to excuse Weber's role in the bad games while giving credit for the good ones just make me shake my head at the 19 players sucked but Weber was exceptional train of thought.

 

[Enoch]

Wart, you have a decision to make.

Listen to agenda driven, stat propagation (+\-) at that.

Or, listen to what his coach, GM, Olympians, all other stats, as well as your observations tell you.

 

[triggrman]

Let's all focus on the approximately 1/6 of the game that is spent on special teams rather than the vast majority at even strength. If you want to rant and rave about how great his offense is, explain why Weber went two months where he did not score a goal at ES against a goalie. Like it or not, his scoring was one dimensional. Rarely does such a simple observation supported by evidence generate such visceral emotional responses.



Nice hyperbole when mentioning Hutton's softies. I noticed that you failed to mention Rinne's crappy play for the first few weeks after his return ... a span where Weber continued to produce. You failed to acknowledge that Mazanec was the NHL rookie of the month in November with a .932 sv% ... a month where Weber's only ES goal was an empty netter. Blame the goalies ... but never mention how often they were hung out to dry. You try to paint it as the team's fault for Weber's slow first half of the season and don't point out that the CAPTAIN was just as guilty as his teammates during that span. The rationalizations here that try to excuse Weber's role in the bad games while giving credit for the good ones just make me shake my head at the 19 players sucked but Weber was exceptional train of thought.

Of course he still played conservative when Maz was rookie of the month, he was still a rookie, why not give credit to Weber for helping him achieve that accomplishment, because I promise Weber's defensive play had a lot to do with it.

And I've explained it time and time again about his 5-5 play versus his play on the powerplay. When you're playing more conservative your offense at even strength is always the first thing to suffer. (funny it's the same excuse Doughty uses for his lower offensive numbers for the season). On the powerplay, you're at an advantage so of course you still produce.

As Hutton's play improved and Josi returned to normal, Weber's 5-5 play improved dramatically. It's what happens.

Weber played the way he needed too and I'm sure the way Trotz wanted him too.

So are you telling me that Weber should have played normal while playing with a 19 year old rookie partner and in front of a rookie goalie with barely a handful of NHL games? Or should he have played it more conservative? You tell me....

 

[WartracePred]

Weber played the way he needed too and I'm sure the way Trotz wanted him too.

So are you telling me that Weber should have played normal while playing with a 19 year old rookie partner and in front of a rookie goalie with barely a handful of NHL games? Or should he have played it more conservative? You tell me....

I think this comment is likely the best explanation for Weber's +/- rating before New Years. I'd bet Trotz asked Weber to cover for Jones, to try and limit his mistakes. And if the Preds were battling just to clear the puck out of the defensive zone, his ES opportunities were bound to decrease.

101st has harped on his +/- rating as the main reason he won't win the Norris this year. That's probably true because many of the sports writers will look to that stat and think he wasn't worthy of the award. They won't look at his assignments and pairings, they won't consider the goalie situation, or that his goal scoring on a team that is near the bottom of the league in goals, his defensive play, his ability to change the direction of a game. They'll see that he is a -2 and move on.

But ask coaches, prominent prognosticators, i.e. MacKenzie, and GMs and they'll agree that he should win the award.

 

[INDhockeyfan]

Why do the hockey writers vote for this award anyways? Why isn't it a peer award? GM's, coaches, and players should vote for the awards. Yes they'll have biases but that is true no matter who votes but at least all the teams would be represented.

 

[I Will Son]

Why do the hockey writers vote for this award anyways? Why isn't it a peer award? GM's, coaches, and players should vote for the awards. Yes they'll have biases but that is true no matter who votes but at least all the teams would be represented.

I was thinking the same thing

 

[triggrman]

I wonder how many writers want their votes back now that they see what a bottom feeder Keith really is.