Non-advanced team statistics with Babcock and Keefe (updated in OP 12/26/19)

[Morbo]

You also forgot to say that they had key injuries over that 65 game stretch... Andersen, Kadri, Tavares, Hyman, Gardiner... guys like that.

Oh... and as we've learned... were very unlucky.

Just an oversight I'm sure.

If you think this is luck, you really have no idea what the hell you're watching.

 

[Morbo]

Babcock looking more and more like a fool with each passing day.

The most foolish part was putting his own enormous ego ahead of the team's success. This is a guy who unironically refers to himself in the third person.

 

[Pookie]

If you think this is luck, you really have no idea what the hell you're watching.

PDO is a stat. That’s what the stat says.

Dubas says it isn’t sustainable. Write him if you have an issue.

Grab the bull you’ll get the horns. That’s right. I went there.

 

[Morbo]

PDO is a stat. That’s what the stat says.

Dubas says it isn’t sustainable. Write him if you have an issue.

Grab the bull you’ll get the horns. That’s right. I went there.

It has to be so hard living this cursed existence. Now you can't enjoy the team, because it will mean admitting you're dead wrong on basically everything you've argued for months if not years now.

It's a little sad.

 

[Havoc]

Babcock looking more and more like a fool with each passing day.

Finally we're back to the non-advanced stats.

 

[Stephen]

While it looks like the Leafs are quickly moving on from the Babcock era, I think we should also be appreciative of the fact that he 1) helped stage a perfect tank job that was done in a way that didn't nuke the long term health of the franchise like Edmonton or Buffalo. In fact, he proved that with a bunch of blue collar nobodies, he can get a pretty good team structure in place. 2) coached them straight back into the playoffs without any real growing pains for the first three years. Considering our tank era friends in Edmonton and Buffalo, that's pretty important.

In the end, he chose not to adapt and evolve with the star studded cast we had in place. Ultimately his undoing here in Toronto, but I think it's undeniable that he put a structure in place that is part of this foundation.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Babcock looking more and more like a fool with each passing day.

So true!

 

[Spargon]

While it looks like the Leafs are quickly moving on from the Babcock era, I think we should also be appreciative of the fact that he 1) helped stage a perfect tank job that was done in a way that didn't nuke the long term health of the franchise like Edmonton or Buffalo. In fact, he proved that with a bunch of blue collar nobodies, he can get a pretty good team structure in place. 2) coached them straight back into the playoffs without any real growing pains for the first three years. Considering our tank era friends in Edmonton and Buffalo, that's pretty important.

In the end, he chose not to adapt and evolve with the star studded cast we had in place. Ultimately his undoing here in Toronto, but I think it's undeniable that he put a structure in place that is part of this foundation.

That's where Babcock excels, he can drive one hell of a tractor but when Dubas took it away and gave him a Ferrari he still tried to plow the fields with it.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

That's where Babcock excels, he can drive one hell of a tractor but when Dubas took it away and gave him a Ferrari he still tried to plow the fields with it.

LOL great analogy

 

[Pookie]

It has to be so hard living this cursed existence. Now you can't enjoy the team, because it will mean admitting you're dead wrong on basically everything you've argued for months if not years now.

It's a little sad.

I’ve been wrong before. Ask my wife.

But yours is a curious statement. You are trying to argue me into a tiny little box and your position is that if they win, it will be due to the Coach and since I cited research that says Coaching doesn’t matter... I will be wrong.

Sonny... I enjoy sport immensely.

I enjoy watching the PLAYERS achieve success. You know.... when they are healthy and talented and performing.

Cito Gaston was a really nice guy but it was Joe Carter who hit the home run to win the World Series. Gaston was fired eventually.

Nurse seems to know what he’s doing but it was Leonard who hit the basket at the buzzer and VanVleet was simply inspiring.

I like Pat Burns but it was Wendel and Dougie and Dave and Felix and Mark and Peter and Bill and that whole line up that inspired during the 92-93 run. Burns was fired eventually.

Get the idea?

See to me, sports are fluid. I am impressed with skill and character. The will to win.

It’s not a video game.

Thanks for thinking of me but we who credit players for success (or failure) will be just fine.

 

[Eb]

two different things

Dubas/Keefe haters and people wishing the Leafs lose to prove their Dubas/Keefe agendas are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Morbo]

I’ve been wrong before. Ask my wife.

But yours is a curious statement. You are trying to argue me into a tiny little box and your position is that if they win, it will be due to the Coach and since I cited research that says Coaching doesn’t matter... I will be wrong.

Sonny... I enjoy sport immensely.

I enjoy watching the PLAYERS achieve success. You know.... when they are healthy and talented and performing.

Cito Gaston was a really nice guy but it was Joe Carter who hit the home run to win the World Series. Gaston was fired eventually.

Nurse seems to know what he’s doing but it was Leonard who hit the basket at the buzzer and VanVleet was simply inspiring.

I like Pat Burns but it was Wendel and Dougie and Dave and Felix and Mark and Peter and Bill and that whole line up that inspired during the 92-93 run. Burns was fired eventually.

Get the idea?

See to me, sports are fluid. I am impressed with skill and character. The will to win.

It’s not a video game.

Thanks for thinking of me but we who credit players for success (or failure) will be just fine.

you're welcome. I mean, I'd pick on some of your buddies some more, but they aren't posting while the team is winning so I can't. you're kind of having to carry the mail for the anti-Dubasites. kudos for showing up when there aren't a lot of losses to enjoy, by the way.

lots of people have said coaching doesn't matter or that it's overrated. you're hardly the first person to suggest this idea. it's not revolutionary.

thing is, in this particular case, the coach has completely changed everything the team does, and in an extremely obvious manner re-aligned strategy to personnel. that is not always the case in a coaching change. you don't often see head coaches trying to play a style that completely doesn't fit the players they have available. Not all coaches are Mike Babcock though, as he'd be the first to tell you.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas/Keefe haters and people wishing the Leafs lose to prove their Dubas/Keefe agendas are not mutually exclusive.

Perhaps in your mind.

 

[Eb]

Perhaps in your mind.

Lol. You're not digging yourself out of this one, sorry.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

It has to be so hard living this cursed existence. Now you can't enjoy the team, because it will mean admitting you're dead wrong on basically everything you've argued for months if not years now.

It's a little sad.

Whoever you're replying to I, thankfully, have on my ignore list but I wish these people had the decency to go into hiding or eat crow. "How can we win with the roster Dumb*** constructed?!!!! Young people with glasses threaten my intelligence!" Well since Dubas got his coach the Leafs have been the best team in the league, but the opinion that this roster wasn't good enough hasn't just aged poorly, it was outrageously dumb at the time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Whoever you're replying to I, thankfully, have on my ignore list but I wish these people had the decency to go into hiding or eat crow. "How can we win with the roster Dumb*** constructed?!!!! Young people with glasses threaten my intelligence!" Well since Dubas got his coach the Leafs have been the best team in the league, but the opinion that this roster wasn't good enough hasn't just aged poorly, it was outrageously dumb at the time.

Some just have to be right on the internet

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Some just have to be right on the internet

I mean all they ever had was that one line, "so you know more than an NHL coach?" Now Babs gets ****canned and Keefe is delivering on the potential of the roster the rest of us always believed in, and they have such a lack of self awareness they think they know better than an NHL GM who, this time, is actually getting results.

It blows my mind they couldn't fathom the game had passed Babs by, Brian Burke was the best gm in hockey when we got him!!! It wasn't long ago. The roster clearly had the talent, we didn't rebuild to be "just okay," we rebuilt to be among the league's best. And now, we have been. If you don't like it I don't know what the hell to tell you.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I mean all they ever had was that one line, "so you know more than an NHL coach?" Now Babs gets ****canned and Keefe is delivering on the potential of the roster the rest of us always believed in, and they have such a lack of self awareness they think they know better than an NHL GM who, this time, is actually getting results.

It blows my mind they couldn't fathom the game had passed Babs by, Brian Burke was the best gm in hockey when we got him!!! It wasn't long ago. The roster clearly had the talent, we didn't rebuild to be "just okay," we rebuilt to be among the league's best. And now, we have been. If you don't like it I don't know what the hell to tell you.

They could only point to past success too.moy what he's doing well now

 

[Morbo]

also interesting...the Marlies seem to have fallen apart since Keefe left?

 

[nsleaf]

Some just have to be right on the internet

Or at least, proven wrong.

 

[Stephen]

also interesting...the Marlies seem to have fallen apart since Keefe left?

Leafs have experienced a real organizational brain drain the past three years with the loss of Lamoriello, Hunter, Babcock and promotion of Keefe. They really need to start bringing in more staff again.

 

[Gallagbi]

also interesting...the Marlies seem to have fallen apart since Keefe left?

Feels like we've taken a lot of the roster too though. Brooks, Marchment, Engvall, Marincin, Sandin @ WJC, Lili that's 6 solid Marlies off their roster

 

[Martin Skoula]

Feels like we've taken a lot of the roster too though. Brooks, Marchment, Engvall, Marincin, Sandin @ WJC, Lili that's 6 solid Marlies off their roster

That's the equivalent of losing Matthews, Hyman, Kapanen, Muzzin, Rielly and Holl at the same time while a new coach tries to set up his system.

 

[Legion34]

It has to be so hard living this cursed existence. Now you can't enjoy the team, because it will mean admitting you're dead wrong on basically everything you've argued for months if not years now.

It's a little sad.

I call this the throw more waffles effect

 

[Havoc]

you're welcome. I mean, I'd pick on some of your buddies some more, but they aren't posting while the team is winning so I can't. you're kind of having to carry the mail for the anti-Dubasites. kudos for showing up when there aren't a lot of losses to enjoy, by the way.

lots of people have said coaching doesn't matter or that it's overrated. you're hardly the first person to suggest this idea. it's not revolutionary.

thing is, in this particular case, the coach has completely changed everything the team does, and in an extremely obvious manner re-aligned strategy to personnel. that is not always the case in a coaching change. you don't often see head coaches trying to play a style that completely doesn't fit the players they have available. Not all coaches are Mike Babcock though, as he'd be the first to tell you.

Pretty much bang on.

Stating random cases where coaching may not have mattered (even those are subjective) and using that to generalize his opinion into fact is pretty shameful for a guy who keeps advertising the scientific method.