Rumor: Nolan Patrick on his way out?

[The Madrigal]

"Sell low?" You're kidding right?

Exactly. I really just don't understand Flyers fans these days. They are either insufferable and think everyone on the team is terrible, or insufferable and actually think this team is loaded with high end young talent that is right on the verge of winning a cup if only Fletcher and AV weren't in charge. There really is no middle ground.

I will give you the middle ground as a Flyers fan though. I'm not trading Patrick for a 2nd or 3rd round pick or. If that is his value he can go pound sand or play hockey and try to fix his failing his career. Dunn for him would be a steal though. Any Flyers fan who wouldn't jump all over that deal needs to reconcile with the fact that this isn't 2017 anymore and Patrick isn't this dominant power forward two-way center with all of the potential in the world.

At this point if he could slightly improve upon his first two seasons and become a consistent 40 point 3rd line center who actually gives effort and doesn't have a bad attitude it would be a big victory for whatever team he is playing on.

 

[Boxscore]

Exactly. I really just don't understand Flyers fans these days. They are either insufferable and think everyone on the team is terrible, or insufferable and actually think this team is loaded with high end young talent that is right on the verge of winning a cup if only Fletcher and AV weren't in charge. There really is no middle ground.

I will give you the middle ground as a Flyers fan though. I'm not trading Patrick for a 2nd or 3rd round pick or. If that is his value he can go pound sand or play hockey and try to fix his failing his career. Dunn for him would be a steal though. Any Flyers fan who wouldn't jump all over that deal needs to reconcile with the fact that this isn't 2017 anymore and Patrick isn't this dominant power forward two-way center with all of the potential in the world.

At this point if he could slightly improve upon his first two seasons and become a consistent 40 point 3rd line center who actually gives effort and doesn't have a bad attitude it would be a big victory for whatever team he is playing on.

Here's the problem with Patrick though -- there's no way the Flyers should be committing to him -- so the likely way to maximize his asset value is to include him in a package. Patrick is an average-at-best, oft-injured, underachiever who cannot be relied on. I don't even think it's wise to sign him to one-year "show us" deals, because Patrick is the type of player that will score 58 points then want a 3-year, 5 million annual contract before getting injured or underachieving for the remainder of that new deal.

The Flyers need to find a way to rid themselves of underachieving, inconsistent, unreliable players who cannot be counted on. Unfortunately, they have too many of them to count.

For starters, the Flyers need to make at least TWO impact, shake-up trades that absolutely rock the dressing room. They also need to bring in a huge upgrade on defense (hopefully a righty) and some character, energy players who keep you from switching to "Love It or List It" during the 2nd period out of sheer boredom. And, let's not forget the elephant in the room -- they need a pure sniper who can bury the puck from 30 feet out or break a game wide open.

 

[achdumeingute]

Please explain to me how getting a young top four D is selling low on a guy who had two 30 point seasons, followed up by not playing, and then regressing to the point where he had 9 points and was arguably the worst Flyers regular forward on the team. If you mean selling low based on the fact that he was the 2nd overall pick in 2017, ok. A lot has changed in those four years though and from a pure value perspective that would be an excellent return for the Flyers.

I'm willing to give him another year to turn things around and increase value.

I doubt he'd get Dunn 1:1 right now anyway.

 

[The Madrigal]

Here's the problem with Patrick though -- there's no way the Flyers should be committing to him -- so the likely way to maximize his asset value is to include him in a package. Patrick is an average-at-best, oft-injured, underachiever who cannot be relied on. I don't even think it's wise to sign him to one-year "show us" deals, because Patrick is the type of player that will score 58 points then want a 3-year, 5 million annual contract before getting injured or underachieving for the remainder of that new deal.

The Flyers need to find a way to rid themselves of underachieving, inconsistent, unreliable players who cannot be counted on. Unfortunately, they have too many of them to count.

For starters, the Flyers need to make at least TWO impact, shake-up trades that absolutely rock the dressing room. They also need to bring in a huge upgrade on defense (hopefully a righty) and some character, energy players who keep you from switching to "Love It or List It" during the 2nd period out of sheer boredom. And, let's not forget the elephant in the room -- they need a pure sniper who can bury the puck from 30 feet out or break a game wide open.

I don't disagree with any of this. You can't expect to keep the same veteran core intact that has produced one playoff series win in 9 years and expect that to drastically change. That also falls in line with creating the ability to find the necessary cap space to improve the roster in terms of the defense and and center position.

I think being able to convince Seattle to take Voracek in the expansion draft is the key to the entire offseason. I love Jake but he is not worth his contract and they simply need to shake up the core of this team. Freeing up that type of cap space will then allow them the freedom to make other big moves. If it takes giving Seattle Patrick to take Jake, peace out Nolan. I would agree that the way to maximize his value is by doing something like this, or including him in a package for someone like Jones or Ellis. My point was that if it came down his value being a 2nd or 3rd round pick I would just keep him. They will probably be able to find a creative way to get some value out of him though.

 

[dingbathero]

Would there be any interest from Detriot?

I like Hronek (naturally)

 

[Volica]

Reading through the last couple pages I chuckled a lot.
Not wanting to trade a declined asset for a similar aged one that actually holds value due to handedness is so fantasy board mindset. Of the remaining teams in the playoffs 1/2 of them use same handedness players on at least one pair. It’s really not that huge of a deal lol.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yup. GM's should just make trades regardless of team needs. Who cares if they have 3 LHD who are better and York/Zamula on the way. Maybe play 3 D and 2 fowards as a line...

You could flip Dunn plus a pick (or prospect) to get the 1RD you need, if that is a priority. I get it's more work for a GM and involves risk, but if you can get something of high value for Patrick, the extra legwork is worth it.

Better than settling for a 2nd or a project that likely won't work out.

 

[OilersCoffeeArtBeer]

Nolan Patrick's value is what yakupovs was. A third.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Would there be any interest from Detriot?

I like Hronek (naturally)

You're not reading any of the posts in here, are you? Patrick doesn't have that kind of value. He's not returning a good young D-man from another team. He's just not. At least not as the centerpiece of a deal.

Nolan Patrick is worth a mid-round pick at most as a reclamation project for another team. Or he's given another year to try and rehab his value further. The fact he was a #2OA pick carries no weight now.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

You're not reading any of the posts in here, are you? Patrick doesn't have that kind of value. He's not returning a good young D-man from another team. He's just not. At least not as the centerpiece of a deal.

Nolan Patrick is worth a mid-round pick at most as a reclamation project for another team. Or he's given another year to try and rehab his value further. The fact he was a #2OA pick carries no weight now.

ironically enough, neither does your post or opinion now.

 

[Kshahdoo]

ironically enough, neither does your post or opinion now.

It's not just his opinion, though. Probably, most people (fans at least) think the same way.

 

[Ishad]

Would there be any interest from Detriot?

I like Hronek (naturally)

Limited. We need a true #1 C (this is going to need to be addressed through drafting) Even if Patrick rebounds here that’s not going to be his upside. We have solid options for a 3rd line center with veleno and Rasmussen.

We’ve got plenty of mid round picks and B prospects to offer, but I don’t see them offering Hronek who is literally the only D man on the team worth protecting in the expansion draft.

 

[Legion34]

Would Patrick be protected? Aren’t they exposing him for expansion

 

[Cor]

Assuming the speculation that Seattle is eyeing Kerfoot from us in expansion, I wonder if TOR might have some interest in Patrick.

 

[Satanphonehome]

For starters, the Flyers need to make at least TWO impact, shake-up trades that absolutely rock the dressing room. They also need to bring in a huge upgrade on defense (hopefully a righty) and some character, energy players who keep you from switching to "Love It or List It" during the 2nd period out of sheer boredom. And, let's not forget the elephant in the room -- they need a pure sniper who can bury the puck from 30 feet out or break a game wide open.

Except that’s far easier said than done.

I can offer you a nasty, hard-working RHD capable of scoring 40 points and one of the most talented game-breakers in the world and you will say Jack Eichel is broken and a cancer and Rasmus Ristolainen is terrible. And you will refuse to offer anything other than the worst of your “underachieving, inconsistent, unreliable players who cannot be counted on”

Because everyone wants other teams Marchands for their Nolan Patricks.

Let’s pretend Patrick has what it takes to be the legit top prospect element of an Eichel Ristolainen trade. What’s your main piece going the other way? What are your adds. Go ahead, make your best offer. Do you really think the Sabres would take it?

And that’s why what you say you want doesnt ever happen.

 

[Guttersniped]

You're not reading any of the posts in here, are you? Patrick doesn't have that kind of value. He's not returning a good young D-man from another team. He's just not. At least not as the centerpiece of a deal.

Nolan Patrick is worth a mid-round pick at most as a reclamation project for another team. Or he's given another year to try and rehab his value further. The fact he was a #2OA pick carries no weight now.

Nolan Patrick, C, 2017 draft, 22, Sept 9, 1998, 6’2”, 198 lbs
20-21 52 GP 4G 5A 9 points 13:17 ATOI
3 seasons 197 GP 30G 40A 70 points 14:06 ATOI

“Reclamation Projects” mentioned

Olli Juolevi, LHD, 2016 draft, 23, May 5, 1998, 6’2”, 182 lbs
1 season/20-21 23 GP 2G 1A 3 points 13:13 ATOI

Jake Virtanen, RW, 2014 draft, 24, Aug 17, 1996, 6’1”, 226 lbs
20-21 38 GP 5G 0A 5 points 12:15 ATOI
6 seasons 317 GP 55G 45A 100 points 12:45 ATOI

Evgeny Svechnikov, LW, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 31, 1996, 6’3”, 208 lbs
20-21 21 GP 3G 5A 8 points 11:49 ATOI
4 seasons 41 GP 5G 7A 12 points 10:31 ATOI

Sam Steel, C, 2016 draft, 23, Feb 3, 1998, 5’11”, 189 lbs
20-21 42 GP 6G 6A 12 points 14:32 ATOI
3 seasons 129 GP 18G 27A 45 points 14:32 ATOI

Timothy Liljegren, RHD, 2017 draft, 22, April 30, 1999, 6’0”, 198 lbs
20-21 2 GP 0G 0A 0 points 15:06 ATOI
2 seasons 13 GP 0G 1A 1 point 11:02 ATOI

Logan Brown, C, 2016 draft, 23, March 5, 1998, 6’6”, 218 lbs
20-21 1 GP 0G 0A 0 points 9:40 TOI
4 seasons 30 GP 1G 8A 9 points 11:07 ATOI

Dylan Strome, C, 2015 draft, 24, March 7, 1997, 6’3”, 200 lbs
20-21 40GP 9G 8A 17 points 15:31 ATOI
5 years 204 GP 45G 77A 122 points 15:33 ATOI

Ethan Bear, RHD, 2015 draft, 23, June 26, 1997, 5’11”, 197 lbs
20-21 43 GP 2G 6A 8 points 17:58 ATOI
3 years 132 GP 8G 25A 33 points 20:12 ATOI

Vince Dunn, LHD, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 29, 1996, 6’0”, 203 lbs
20-21 43 GP 6G 14A 20 points 19:15 ATOI
4 years 267 GP 32G 70A 102 points 17:23 ATOI

Jake DeBrusk, RW, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 17, 1996, 6’0”, 194 lbs
20-21 41GP 5G 9A 14 points 14:54 ATOI
4 years 244GP 67G 67A 134 points 15:24 ATOI

Would Patrick be protected? Aren’t they exposing him for expansion

They’re likely protecting Patrick if they expose forwards with big contracts to move cap.

Exposing Voracek is an obvious choice, his 3 year/8.25m contract is hefty and he’s unlikely to be taken anyway. James van Riemsdyk is more interesting. The Athletic beat writer had him exposed on his latest list but mentioned that protecting him wouldn’t be completely out of the question. He’s signed for 2 years/7m though and they have cheap depth at wing so it’s very likely JVR is also exposed and maybe even taken by Seattle.

Then it’s just Patrick vs Nicolas Aube-Kubel. (Unless they go 4-4 and they won’t because why?) Aube-Kubel had a nice season in 2019-20 but didn’t build on it this season and he’s undersized bottom six winger. Not a Flyers fan but that’s what I’ve read.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I could see Vegas picking him up one of these years. His connection to McCrimmon tells me otherwise. Could be his next team but I see him playing there in maybe if he's looking for another new team.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Patrick + Sanheim + pick for Ehlers

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nolan Patrick, C, 2017 draft, 22, Sept 9, 1998, 6’2”, 198 lbs
20-21 52 GP 4G 5A 9 points 13:17 ATOI
3 seasons 197 GP 30G 40A 70 points 14:06 ATOI

“Reclamation Projects” mentioned

Olli Juolevi, LHD, 2016 draft, 23, May 5, 1998, 6’2”, 182 lbs
1 season/20-21 23 GP 2G 1A 3 points 13:13 ATOI
Defenseman... on a Vancouver shitshow in the COVID year who is in his first season. Totally comparable.

Jake Virtanen, RW, 2014 draft, 24, Aug 17, 1996, 6’1”, 226 lbs
20-21 38 GP 5G 0A 5 points 12:15 ATOI
6 seasons 317 GP 55G 45A 100 points 12:45 ATOI
What makes Patrick and Virtanen different in this comparison? Both were 30 point forwards who had a swift downturn. Virtanen due to shitshow Vancouver and Patrick to his various injuries.

Evgeny Svechnikov, LW, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 31, 1996, 6’3”, 208 lbs
20-21 21 GP 3G 5A 8 points 11:49 ATOI
4 seasons 41 GP 5G 7A 12 points 10:31 ATOI
Svechnikov literally can't stay healthy. Every time he's in line to get time, he hurts himself. If Detroit wanted to trade him, they'd get the UFA rights of a player that nobody else wanted to sign in return as the high water mark of his value. Svechnikov has no value.

Sam Steel, C, 2016 draft, 23, Feb 3, 1998, 5’11”, 189 lbs
20-21 42 GP 6G 6A 12 points 14:32 ATOI
3 seasons 129 GP 18G 27A 45 points 14:32 ATOI
Sam Steel is a reclamation project? No, Sam Steel is just a bottom six forward.

Timothy Liljegren, RHD, 2017 draft, 22, April 30, 1999, 6’0”, 198 lbs
20-21 2 GP 0G 0A 0 points 15:06 ATOI
2 seasons 13 GP 0G 1A 1 point 11:02 ATOI
Liljegren is a reclamation project? What? Something tells me you're just looking at stats with no context for anything at this point.

Logan Brown, C, 2016 draft, 23, March 5, 1998, 6’6”, 218 lbs
20-21 1 GP 0G 0A 0 points 9:40 TOI
4 seasons 30 GP 1G 8A 9 points 11:07 ATOI
Logan Brown is a reclamation project. Good job, you found one! He would also be worth less than Patrick. He'd be a toss-in in a larger deal (a la Patrick Eaves to Nashville in the Legwand deal, which turned out to be a bad deal all around).

Dylan Strome, C, 2015 draft, 24, March 7, 1997, 6’3”, 200 lbs
20-21 40GP 9G 8A 17 points 15:31 ATOI
5 years 204 GP 45G 77A 122 points 15:33 ATOI
Strome was a good piece for Chicago the last two years before this one. He's not a reclamation project, he's a player who had a down year on a bad team in a messed up situation.

Ethan Bear, RHD, 2015 draft, 23, June 26, 1997, 5’11”, 197 lbs
20-21 43 GP 2G 6A 8 points 17:58 ATOI
3 years 132 GP 8G 25A 33 points 20:12 ATOI
Hey, another D that's not remotely comparable.

Vince Dunn, LHD, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 29, 1996, 6’0”, 203 lbs
20-21 43 GP 6G 14A 20 points 19:15 ATOI
4 years 267 GP 32G 70A 102 points 17:23 ATOI
Well, now I'm really confused because Vince Dunn is actually a pretty decent player doing pretty well. Hell, he even went up in ice time and production this year.

Jake DeBrusk, RW, 2015 draft, 24, Oct 17, 1996, 6’0”, 194 lbs
20-21 41GP 5G 9A 14 points 14:54 ATOI
4 years 244GP 67G 67A 134 points 15:24 ATOI
Hey, another guy who actually had a down year and you might be able to get for cheaper because of it and hope he could return to a 40 point winger. I guess getting two right isn't bad.

I don't get what you're driving at. Nolan Patrick played 52 games in 20-21 after missing the entire 19-20 season. He had 9 points in 52 games. Or in other terms, he's had 9 points in two years. On what planet is a guy in that scenario anything but a reclamation project to a different team? You want more value out of another franchise, you rehab his value yourself. Patrick, as it stands, is sadly damaged goods. A team isn't going to pony up a big asset for him right now.

 

[The don godfather]

Debrusk for Patrick sounds fair . Deal ?

 

[Guttersniped]

I don't get what you're driving at. Nolan Patrick played 52 games in 20-21 after missing the entire 19-20 season. He had 9 points in 52 games. Or in other terms, he's had 9 points in two years. On what planet is a guy in that scenario anything but a reclamation project to a different team? You want more value out of another franchise, you rehab his value yourself. Patrick, as it stands, is sadly damaged goods. A team isn't going to pony up a big asset for him right now.

I’m not remotely a Flyers fan and I don’t want anything.

And all I said was “‘Reclamation Projects’ mentioned” and then I just listed the names of reclamation project-style players suggested by other posters in proposed trades so people could compare them. I offered no commentary.

I do think Virtanen is a little long in the tooth to be a “reclamation project”, unlike a 22 year old who missed significant time with injuries. I’m not sure all those players are reclamation projects, so I did put it in quotes.

But again I just listed everybody. You read a lot into the three words I wrote, I didn’t know people might be weirdly offended when I didn’t put “reclamation project” over Patrick’s name too.

 

[phil162888]

I don't get what you're driving at. Nolan Patrick played 52 games in 20-21 after missing the entire 19-20 season. He had 9 points in 52 games. Or in other terms, he's had 9 points in two years. On what planet is a guy in that scenario anything but a reclamation project to a different team? You want more value out of another franchise, you rehab his value yourself. Patrick, as it stands, is sadly damaged goods. A team isn't going to pony up a big asset for him right now.

You act like the Flyers are shopping him!!!! Were not.... He is asking for a move is the rumour. Flyers are not going to trade a kid when healthy is a potential 1C/2C for the crap being offered. Patrick can want to get traded doesn't mean the Flyers will do it unless they get value... Kid needs to stfu and prove he can play like a 2C before the migraines. End of story

 

[wankstifier]

Tony wouldn’t know the shit from his own ass. “Insider” is generous

 

[Boxscore]

Except that’s far easier said than done.

I can offer you a nasty, hard-working RHD capable of scoring 40 points and one of the most talented game-breakers in the world and you will say Jack Eichel is broken and a cancer and Rasmus Ristolainen is terrible. And you will refuse to offer anything other than the worst of your “underachieving, inconsistent, unreliable players who cannot be counted on”

Because everyone wants other teams Marchands for their Nolan Patricks.

Let’s pretend Patrick has what it takes to be the legit top prospect element of an Eichel Ristolainen trade. What’s your main piece going the other way? What are your adds. Go ahead, make your best offer. Do you really think the Sabres would take it?

And that’s why what you say you want doesnt ever happen.

If you're talking about a blockbuster that's sending both Eichel and Ristolainen to the Flyers, then Philly is offering a haul in both players, picks and salary, since they would be incurring about $16 mil in cap hit. In that case, we're talking something like...

TO PHI:
- Eichel
- Ristolainen

TO BUF:
- Voracek/JVR (salary needs to go back to BUF)
- Patrick
- Foerster/Frost
- Gostisbehere (salary that would need to go back)
- 13th overall pick
- ... maybe another pick or good prospect

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Ethan Bear and 3RD 2022 for Patrick from the oilers. Gives a good young RD for Patrick.

No way the Oilers offer that