Player Discussion Noah Juulsen

[vadim sharifijanov]

OT but i always felt like sopel was being carried by ohlund

but yeah obviously sopes was a whole other league of dman than juulsen

sopes was a bottom pair guy who was largely played above his ability in the top four. juulsen is becoming a very useful #7, which props to him for how far he’s come, but he’s being extended as a bottom pair guy.

but if the 2006 sabres had had a guy like current juulsen instead of rory fitzpatrick, they might have won the cup. a bona fide useful piece.

 

[F A N]

OT but i always felt like sopel was being carried by ohlund

but yeah obviously sopes was a whole other league of dman than juulsen

sopes was a bottom pair guy who was largely played above his ability in the top four. juulsen is becoming a very useful #7, which props to him for how far he’s come, but he’s being extended as a bottom pair guy.

Sopel was carried by Ohlund here defensively but he was a good defenseman in his own right. He was #4/5 with a enough skill and a big shot to play on the 2nd pairing. He was kind of like Ben Hutton.

Credit where credit is due. Sopel was one of those guys who was willing to do what he was told including getting fat. But kidding aside, he averaged over 18 minutes in the playoffs and was a key PKer for the Blackhawks when they won their Cup in 2010.

but if the 2006 sabres had had a guy like current juulsen instead of rory fitzpatrick, they might have won the cup. a bona fide useful piece.

I had to read up on this. Rory was on for a key goal against but the Sabres were without their four top 4 Dmen in that last game. Hard to win a Cup that banged up. Just look at what happened with the Canucks in 2011.

 

[iceburg]

The Juulsen story reminds me a little of the Aaron Rome story. Rome was a big physical defenseman who was basically an AHL player having played only a handful of NHL games before joining the Canucks as a 26 year old. Rome went on to be an important part of the 2011 run and played the next 5 seasons in the NHL as a bottom pairing/7th defenseman.
The differences are Juulsen’s higher pedigree and the fact he is right handed. I think he has shown his floor is Aaron Rome. But I think he’s also shown that his upside could be a regular 5/6 defensive stalwart who is a PK specialist. That would be huge.

 

[docbenton]

Juulsen's been playing really well, not much offense obviously but honestly he's been moving the puck at a pretty high level as well and not making any mistakes. If he continues to play at this level he should deserve consideration in the top 4 - right now he's probably only behind Hughes, Hronek and a healthy Soucy in terms of performance. Maybe he can turn into our Erik Cernak.

 

[MS]

Juulsen's been playing really well, not much offense obviously but honestly he's been moving the puck at a pretty high level as well and not making any mistakes. If he continues to play at this level he should deserve consideration in the top 4 - right now he's probably only behind Hughes, Hronek and a healthy Soucy in terms of performance. Maybe he can turn into our Erik Cernak.

What?

He's doing a good job on the PK and getting by in #6 minutes but he's very clearly the 7th best defender on the team with everyone healthy. Contributes zero offense and has the worst possession numbers on the team despite playing softish minutes.

He does some stuff that looks fundamentally good (shot-blocking, boxing guys out) when he's in his own zone, but the problem is that he gets stuck in his own zone more than any other defender. And again, this is playing 3rd pairing minutes. He'd get eviscerated if he played 20+ minutes/game.

He's been a nice story but people are getting carried away and he isn't a top-4 defender any more than Aaron Rome/Ryan Stanton/Kyle Burroughs who all did a similarly decent job in this sort of role.

 

[docbenton]

What?

He's doing a good job on the PK and getting by in #6 minutes but he's very clearly the 7th best defender on the team with everyone healthy. Contributes zero offense and has the worst possession numbers on the team despite playing softish minutes.

He does some stuff that looks fundamentally good (shot-blocking, boxing guys out) when he's in his own zone, but the problem is that he gets stuck in his own zone more than any other defender. And again, this is playing 3rd pairing minutes. He'd get eviscerated if he played 20+ minutes/game.

He's been a nice story but people are getting carried away and he isn't a top-4 defender any more than Aaron Rome/Ryan Stanton/Kyle Burroughs who all did a similarly decent job in this sort of role.

Disagree, he's been moving the puck much better than Cole or Myers for a while now, and Zadorov is very hit or miss. That's the number 1 attribute that distinguishes a top 4 defenseman IMO. Understand the questions about deployment but the difference in performance is clear.

 

[MS]

Disagree, he's been moving the puck much better than Cole or Myers for a while now, and Zadorov is very hit or miss. That's the number 1 attribute that distinguishes a top 4 defenseman IMO. Understand the questions about deployment but the difference in performance is clear.

He's 0-4-4 with 15 SOG in 36 games. He's an extremely limited player offensively. And I get that Myers is polarizing but Myers is *substantially* better at transitioning the puck and generating offense than Noah Juulsen.

 

[Canucker]

He's 0-4-4 with 15 SOG in 36 games. He's an extremely limited player offensively. And I get that Myers is polarizing but Myers is *substantially* better at transitioning the puck and generating offense than Noah Juulsen.

Yeah, I absolutely detest Myers but he's reasonably decent offensively...reasonably. Juulsen makes a decent breakout pass but that's where it begins and ends...defensively, I'll take Juulsen over Myers everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I have enjoyed watching this player become a bona fide NHL player..He's going from strength to strength, and getting better, and confident...a great story.

Better keep your head up when he's on the ice..One of the better hitters on the team.

 

[F A N]

He's 0-4-4 with 15 SOG in 36 games. He's an extremely limited player offensively. And I get that Myers is polarizing but Myers is *substantially* better at transitioning the puck and generating offense than Noah Juulsen.

Yeah, I absolutely detest Myers but he's reasonably decent offensively...reasonably. Juulsen makes a decent breakout pass but that's where it begins and ends...defensively, I'll take Juulsen over Myers everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

Yep and mind you that Myers isn't in his "puck moving" prime. This season he's 3rd among Canucks Dmen in even strength points. Behind him is Cole and it's not even close.

We've seen Myers player over the years. We know what he's all about regardless of how opinions differ. But the fact of the matter is that he has been consistently viewed as a RHD with size who can absorb 18+ minutes a night and kill penalties in a 2nd pairing deployment.

 

[tantalum]

What?

He's doing a good job on the PK and getting by in #6 minutes but he's very clearly the 7th best defender on the team with everyone healthy. Contributes zero offense and has the worst possession numbers on the team despite playing softish minutes.

He does some stuff that looks fundamentally good (shot-blocking, boxing guys out) when he's in his own zone, but the problem is that he gets stuck in his own zone more than any other defender. And again, this is playing 3rd pairing minutes. He'd get eviscerated if he played 20+ minutes/game.

He's been a nice story but people are getting carried away and he isn't a top-4 defender any more than Aaron Rome/Ryan Stanton/Kyle Burroughs who all did a similarly decent job in this sort of role.

Yep. This isn't a 22 year old rookie starting to make his way in the NHL on the blueline where you could think to start increasing minutes. This is a soon to be 27 year old journeyman who has never established himself as anything beyond being a #7 (and before this year a #8/9). He is not a guy you look to move up the lineup. Honestly he's still a guy you look to move back down to 8/9 in an ideal world.

 

[Canucker]

Yep and mind you that Myers isn't in his "puck moving" prime. This season he's 3rd among Canucks Dmen in even strength points. Behind him is Cole and it's not even close.

We've seen Myers player over the years. We know what he's all about regardless of how opinions differ. But the fact of the matter is that he has been consistently viewed as a RHD with size who can absorb 18+ minutes a night and kill penalties in a 2nd pairing deployment.

Agree with all of this except the last point...he should not be killing penalties at all. I'd rather use 3 forwards and 1 D than use Myers on the PK.

 

[Bankerguy]

i'm not a huge fan tbh.
He's a Number 7 or 8 guy on a good team.
He puts up no offense and isn't great in his own zone either.
He hits a lot... 108 hits in 36 games w/ only 14-15 mins a game, that's insane. He blocks shots at an okay rate but the puck is almost always in his own zone... So much so that it negates any of the soft-benefits you get from his physicality.. Fenwick and Corsi numbers are pretty rough. This means that when he's on the ice, the other team has the majority of the puck/ momentum/ shot chances.
its a big skewed since he gets the bulk of his starts in the D-zone, meaning the other team is likely putting out their offensive players (especially road games w/ last change) but still. -8% corsi relative is really really rough.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

i'm not a huge fan tbh.
He's a Number 7 or 8 guy on a good team.
He puts up no offense and isn't great in his own zone either.
He hits a lot... 108 hits in 36 games w/ only 14-15 mins a game, that's insane. He blocks shots at an okay rate but the puck is almost always in his own zone... So much so that it negates any of the soft-benefits you get from his physicality.. Fenwick and Corsi numbers are pretty rough. This means that when he's on the ice, the other team has the majority of the puck/ momentum/ shot chances.
its a big skewed since he gets the bulk of his starts in the D-zone, meaning the other team is likely putting out their offensive players (especially road games w/ last change) but still. -8% corsi relative is really really rough.

He doesnt put up a lot of offence, but certainly has demonstrated a good ability to make a good first pass exiting the zone. (he's not just a chip it off the glass guy)...Other stats indicate that he is pretty solid in his own zone.

"Juulsen has massively improved in the defensive zone to the point that he leads all Canucks defencemen with the lowest rate of expected goals against at 5-on-5 for the entire season, according to Natural Stat Trick.

Juulsen has managed this feat primarily by protecting the home plate area in front of the Canucks’ net, with the lowest rate of high-danger chances against among Canucks defencemen."

Noah Juulsen exits the Canucks lineup a lot better than he entered it

With Carson Soucy and Nikita Zadorov both back from injury, Noah Juulsen is expected to be a healthy scratch against the New York Rangers.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

 

[alternate]

Yeah I don't think he's a top 4 guy, but he's definitely a legit top 6 dman at this point. Seeing strides in his puck movement in all 3 zones as well.

Not worried at all about his production. We get enough offense elsewhere in the lineup. His role isn't to provide offense, it's to protect the gut and move the puck to the forwards.

This year, he's #7 when everyone is healthy. But next year I expect he will be an everyday player all season, and his contract will be considered one of the most valuable on the team.

 

[Bankerguy]

He doesnt put up a lot of offence, but certainly has demonstrated a good ability to make a good first pass exiting the zone. (he's not just a chip it off the glass guy)...Other stats indicate that he is pretty solid in his own zone.

"Juulsen has massively improved in the defensive zone to the point that he leads all Canucks defencemen with the lowest rate of expected goals against at 5-on-5 for the entire season, according to Natural Stat Trick.

Juulsen has managed this feat primarily by protecting the home plate area in front of the Canucks’ net, with the lowest rate of high-danger chances against among Canucks defencemen."

Noah Juulsen exits the Canucks lineup a lot better than he entered it

With Carson Soucy and Nikita Zadorov both back from injury, Noah Juulsen is expected to be a healthy scratch against the New York Rangers.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

Thats interesting. I think the promising GA/60 stats held against uglier corsi/fenwick stats tell us that when he's on the ice, opponents are shooting or being forced to shoot form low chance areas like the wall or far out AND that he might be good at clearing pucks from close to his net.

 

[MS]

Thats interesting. I think the promising GA/60 stats held against uglier corsi/fenwick stats tell us that when he's on the ice, opponents are shooting or being forced to shoot form low chance areas like the wall or far out AND that he might be good at clearing pucks from close to his net.

Or that he's defending pretty well in contained situations ... but that that's being outweighed by the amount of time spent in his zone and weak offensive results.

A player contributing a 7/10 defensive effort and a 2/10 offensive effort is helping less than a player contributing a 5/10 defensive effort + a 5/10 offensive effort.

 

[Bankerguy]

Or that he's defending pretty well in contained situations ... but that that's being outweighed by the amount of time spent in his zone and weak offensive results.

A player contributing a 7/10 defensive effort and a 2/10 offensive effort is helping less than a player contributing a 5/10 defensive effort + a 5/10 offensive effort.

Thinking about this further.... he would be the type of player that would "bleed momentum" since the other team would always have the puck shooting tons, collecting rebounds and running up teh shot clock. We come out of the shift still 0-0 but with the other team lickin their chops

 

[MS]

Thinking about this further.... he would be the type of player that would "bleed momentum" since the other team would always have the puck shooting tons, collecting rebounds and running up teh shot clock. We come out of the shift still 0-0 but with the other team lickin their chops

It's the sort of play that's quite effective in terms of PK or killing off the clock when we're up 3-1 when scoring more doesn't really matter ... but less so during ES play when tied or trailing.

 

[VanJack]

It's almost impossible to overstate how the serious injury bug can have such a devastating impact on a young player's development.

You look at Juulsen's early career after being a first round draft pick of the Canadians, and it's pockmarked with season-ending injuries. For d-men, who need more playing time and development time to start with, it's sometimes career threatening.

Inconsistent playing time cost him in Montreal and he was claimed on waivers by Florida, and then on to the Canucks for another failed d-prospect in Oli Juloevi. Ironically some of the same problems that bedeviled Juulsen's career also cost Juolevi.

Interesting though that one guy managed to reinvent himself with a healthy year in Abbotsford, and then to the Canucks where he's become a dependable depth d-man. As for Juolevi, I think he might be back in Finland?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I have a hard time criticizing the player (based on his play the last few months..He had a rough start to this season) considering the tough start to his career....I'd say he's better than 7-8 on a good team ..He's turned into a solid NHL 3rd pairing D man, and he brings precisely what you look for in a 3rd pairing D man.. .The coaching staff wouldnt blink on interchanging him with Cole...You'd also have feel confident with him in a 3rd pairing alongside Soucy or Z.

Pretty good for a guy that a number of posters here, had him earmarked as guy who couldn't/ wouldnt be an NHL player..Thats now looking pretty far off the mark.

 

[Canucker]

I have a hard time criticizing the player (based on his play the last few months..He had a rough start to this season) considering the tough start to his career....I'd say he's better than 7-8 on a good team ..He's turned into a solid NHL 3rd pairing D man, and he brings precisely what you look for in a 3rd pairing D man.. .The coaching staff wouldnt blink on interchanging him with Cole...You'd also have feel confident with him in a 3rd pairing alongside Soucy or Z.

Pretty good for a guy that a number of posters here, had him earmarked as guy who couldn't/ wouldnt be an NHL player..Thats now looking pretty far off the mark.

For a guy who makes $775k for this and next year....not a complaint whatsoever.

 

[Nomobo]

Got praised by Toc again after tonight’s game. This guy just seems to improve with each passing game.

 

[F A N]

He doesnt put up a lot of offence, but certainly has demonstrated a good ability to make a good first pass exiting the zone. (he's not just a chip it off the glass guy)...Other stats indicate that he is pretty solid in his own zone.

"Juulsen has massively improved in the defensive zone to the point that he leads all Canucks defencemen with the lowest rate of expected goals against at 5-on-5 for the entire season, according to Natural Stat Trick.

Juulsen has managed this feat primarily by protecting the home plate area in front of the Canucks’ net, with the lowest rate of high-danger chances against among Canucks defencemen."

Noah Juulsen exits the Canucks lineup a lot better than he entered it

With Carson Soucy and Nikita Zadorov both back from injury, Noah Juulsen is expected to be a healthy scratch against the New York Rangers.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

Someone send this to Castonguay to help her negotiate Hronek's extension.

 

[iceburg]

He doesnt put up a lot of offence, but certainly has demonstrated a good ability to make a good first pass exiting the zone. (he's not just a chip it off the glass guy)...Other stats indicate that he is pretty solid in his own zone.

"Juulsen has massively improved in the defensive zone to the point that he leads all Canucks defencemen with the lowest rate of expected goals against at 5-on-5 for the entire season, according to Natural Stat Trick.

Juulsen has managed this feat primarily by protecting the home plate area in front of the Canucks’ net, with the lowest rate of high-danger chances against among Canucks defencemen."

Noah Juulsen exits the Canucks lineup a lot better than he entered it

With Carson Soucy and Nikita Zadorov both back from injury, Noah Juulsen is expected to be a healthy scratch against the New York Rangers.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

So I guess, according to this, Juulsen and Friedman should be the top matchup pairing Another example of how these stats need to have context. They can be useful but this doesn’t mean he’s the best defender.
Ok, now that the mini rant is over, I think Juulsen could be close to the perfect bottom pairing guy. I still think we need to see his play for a more extended period. But he is a good defender, moves the puck well, is pretty mobile,, physical, and comes at a cost that allows for cap balance.