Prospect Info: Noah Juulsen Part II

[417]

I guess...but DeBrusk, Grzelcyk, Heinen all played the equivalent of 1 AHL season respectively.

Ryan Donato went straight from NCAA to Boston

Anders Bjork, who I forgot to mention, only played 9 AHL games last year...he played 30 with the Bruins before getting hurt.

None of these guys played years in the AHL.

The league is getting younger and younger...that's the wave right now, smart teams ride this wave.

Stubborn teams & coaches continue to use the mantra that "young = mistake prone".

@Andrei79

See above - clearly, I was talking about AHL...

I obviously never suggested the Bruins should have made Anders Bjork play with the Bruins as an 18yr old fresh out of the draft.

We're clearly talking about the Montreal Canadiens (or Boston Bruins in my previous example) development system.

The Montreal Canadiens aren't in charge of developing prospects while they are on their junior teams or in the NCAA (yes I know they follow up, make recommendations, etc...I'm talking more about hands on, day to day, like they do with their AHL team).

We're specifically talking about what's best for Noah Juulsen's development today.

I've argued that he looks ready to play in the NHL right now...

Others have argued that he should go back to the AHL because "that's where all great players have developed" as it was put to me.

That's clearly not true...

Juulsen needed 4yrs of development in the WHL before the team decided he was ready for pros...

He played 31 AHL games last year + 23 NHL games.

He doesnt necessarily need more AHL time at this point...not with what he's showing us so far.

If that changes during the year, so be it, send him down.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol

Again, I was talking strictly about AHL...

Obviously, the Bruins wouldn't make Jake DeBrusk make their team as an 18yr old...

I mean, that goes without saying.

Juniors is juniors...pro is pro.

I mean, this is basic stuff...why are we debating whether or not its prudent for team to let their junior aged prospects, develop in junior?

I never argued against that...I'm only a s strictly talking about when they sign and turn into pros.

Not every prospect needs 2-3yrs of AHL time.

Nobody ever claimed this.

 

[montreal]

To me it shouldn't matter that Juulsen looks ready for the NHL. If this organization had a better track record when it comes to developing talent things would be different, but since they don't it comes down to if you continue to repeat your mistakes why not say that maybe it's time to rethink your way of doing things and perhaps take more caution.

Then I would look at the situation. To me if the Habs are going to suck, why not look at the big picture instead of well he looks better then the pile of crap we have currently on the roster. If you think Juulsen can improve his offensive game in the AHL even though he's ready to play in the NHL because he's so good defensively and our blueline without him and Mete is a joke, why not give him the time to develop these offensive skills in a less pressure fueled environment.

But the Habs have been rushing their prospects for years, I don't expect that to change. I suspect to hear the same thing from posters when I complained about rushing Tinordi, Beaulieu, DLR, etc.. Fans said they are NHL ready, they will do better in the NHL. Now of course those fans will just say they weren't good picks but fail to see that all I'm saying is why repeat these mistakes even if it's not one why not take more caution as trying something different this time?

 

[JianYang]

@Andrei79

See above - clearly, I was talking about AHL...

I obviously never suggested the Bruins should have made Anders Bjork play with the Bruins as an 18yr old fresh out of the draft.

We're clearly talking about the Montreal Canadiens (or Boston Bruins in my previous example) development system.

The Montreal Canadiens aren't in charge of developing prospects while they are on their junior teams or in the NCAA (yes I know they follow up, make recommendations, etc...I'm talking more about hands on, day to day, like they do with their AHL team).

We're specifically talking about what's best for Noah Juulsen's development today.

I've argued that he looks ready to play in the NHL right now...

Others have argued that he should go back to the AHL because "that's where all great players have developed" as it was put to me.

That's clearly not true...

Juulsen needed 4yrs of development in the WHL before the team decided he was ready for pros...

He played 31 AHL games last year + 23 NHL games.

He doesnt necessarily need more AHL time at this point...not with what he's showing us so far.

If that changes during the year, so be it, send him down.

I think young players tend to worry more about staying on the roster, and that may make them play scared to lose a job, rather to trust themself and just play. The more they play like that, the more it becomes habit, and you may never uncover the true value of the player.

He shows glimpes of what he's capable of with the puck, and I want him to continue with that. Either you play him significant minutes in the NHL and hope he continues to try and be himself even when he hits hard times, or you send him to the ahl and he does the same in a less challenging environment.

Then it becomes a matter of what route you believe in to work best. Both can work, and have worked in the past, but how do we decide which route is the best for each specific individual. That's where it can get tricky, as I do believe that not all players will benefit from the same route, but I'll admit being more biased towards the ahl seasoning route.

 

[Andrei79]

@Andrei79

See above - clearly, I was talking about AHL...

I obviously never suggested the Bruins should have made Anders Bjork play with the Bruins as an 18yr old fresh out of the draft.

We're clearly talking about the Montreal Canadiens (or Boston Bruins in my previous example) development system.

The Montreal Canadiens aren't in charge of developing prospects while they are on their junior teams or in the NCAA (yes I know they follow up, make recommendations, etc...I'm talking more about hands on, day to day, like they do with their AHL team).

We're specifically talking about what's best for Noah Juulsen's development today.

I've argued that he looks ready to play in the NHL right now...

Others have argued that he should go back to the AHL because "that's where all great players have developed" as it was put to me.

That's clearly not true...

Juulsen needed 4yrs of development in the WHL before the team decided he was ready for pros...

He played 31 AHL games last year + 23 NHL games.

He doesnt necessarily need more AHL time at this point...not with what he's showing us so far.

If that changes during the year, so be it, send him down.

I'll answer both posts here.

I was answering to your post replying to a poster claiming the Bruins let their prospects develop for years (which is true) by saying they didn't give then significant AHL time (a non sequitur).

All of the examples given had significant development time. You'd like to make this about significant AHL time, your argument wouldn't hold up otherwise. The problem here is no one made that claim. Me and the poster you refer to already explained this.

Another way one could skew facts into his favor would be to claim something like Juulsen needed 4 years of WHL before the team decided he had to turn pro.

That's a pretty assinine statement. First because, why not say: 4 years of WHL, 1 year of major minor midget, 2 years of Bantam, etc? Likely because it would sound strange as its ridiculous to have to add the 2 years pre-draft when it's common place for draft picks. Every player plays a year or two before getting drafted.

What actually happened is they let him develop for 2 years and he became elligible for the AHL. And yes, it counts as development even if its not a pro league. It's called a development plan. Teams have them for every player, keep in touch with their respective lower league teams and focus with the players on the things they need to improve. When they come to the AHL, they have a more hands on approach but often much of the work has already been done. It becomes a matter of becoming a pro and honing their skills so that they translate to the NHL.

That said, you also don't define "significant time". 3 of these players had a whole year of AHL time. Something Juulsen didn't get. Nevermind how Lefebvre was a disaster development-wise, he also sustained an injury and couldn't score more than 2 assists coming back.

So yeah, he does need time to work on some things: offense. I'm not talking about 2-3 years here, but a year or less depending on how he plays and produces. There's no logic to rushing these guys in a season with 0 hope of competing for the cup.

Since we can't prove rushing is bad (though honestly, we've seen it so many times), here's what Mike Babcock has to say about it. Interestingly, he comes from an organization (Detroit) that historically let their kids play only when they were really ready:

 

[A55P2]

Juulsen is already one of the best d-man on this team. I get the argumentation, but personally I'm very confident he's an NHLer right now. Everything he shows on the ice points this way. Worse that could happen is that he has a few rough game and we send him down, which I would argue will not be detrimental to his development at all.

You watch guys like Scherbak, McCaron, Suzuki, and others. These are all guys with areas in which they shine and others in which they definitely need some development in lower leagues. Juulsen is already very good defensively and he's shown promise offensively, which I don't think will be impacted by him playing in the NHL. He makes tape-to-tape passes in all three zones, has a OK shot that is already better than last year, he plays safe but effectively and is very poised in his pinch in the offensive and neutral zone. I think what he could develop is his moving at the offensive blue-line and his shot, both of which he could improve in the NHL.

What would be your understanding of Romanov's situation then. You must be pissed and feel he'll stagnate if that's your take on Juulsen?

 

[Mrb1p]

Juulsen is already one of the best d-man on this team. I get the argumentation, but personally I'm very confident he's an NHLer right now. Everything he shows on the ice points this way. Worse that could happen is that he has a few rough game and we send him down, which I would argue will not be detrimental to his development at all.

You watch guys like Scherbak, McCaron, Suzuki, and others. These are all guys with areas in which they shine and others in which they definitely need some development in lower leagues. Juulsen is already very good defensively and he's shown promise offensively, which I don't think will be impacted by him playing in the NHL. He makes tape-to-tape passes in all three zones, has a OK shot that is already better than last year, he plays safe but effectively and is very poised in his pinch in the offensive and neutral zone. I think what he could develop is his moving at the offensive blue-line and his shot, both of which he could improve in the NHL.

What would be your understanding of Romanov's situation then. You must be pissed and feel he'll stagnate if that's your take on Juulsen?

Romanov would be best served playing more games and more minutes, like every other players.

Juulsen is good enough for the NHL, we pretty much all agree on that, but why not wait and let him simmer and he can come in and be a top 3 D ? Instead of having him play botton pairing and not develop offensively?

 

[A55P2]

If the pre-season is any indication of the actual season, him in Mete are at worst second pairing d-man.

 

[montreal]

If the pre-season is any indication of the actual season, him in Mete are at worst second pairing d-man.

on one of the worst bluelines in the NHL on one of the worst teams in the NHL and so far in 72 NHL games they have 1 goal between them. Now we have to hope that they can improve their offensive games in the NHL.

 

[Deebs]

Love that Juuls is staying up. He's ready for the show fulltime

 

[Habs Halifax]

Juulsen looked good to me last night. I think we got a good top 4D here and he is only 21. We can't expect too much offense from him but he is a great passer and he has a shot. Plays a very smart and reliable game.

 

[Merci Saku]

I see a career similar to Brent Seabrook in Juulsen

 

[Vachon23]

I see a career similar to Brent Seabrook in Juulsen

Ouff Seabrook was a stud in his prime ! Maybe more a guy like Kevin Bieska

 

[Hostile Offer]

I see a career similar to Brent Seabrook in Juulsen

If Juulsen can ever develop anything resembling of Seabrook's outlet pass we're looking at a stud of a dman. Don't see that happening, though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I see a career similar to Brent Seabrook in Juulsen

Not a bad ceiling comparison. How about Vlasic?

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Juulsen can ever develop anything resembling of Seabrook's outlet pass we're looking at a stud of a dman. Don't see that happening, though.

Some credit needs to be noted for the 21 year old. Not many even gets games in the NHL at that age. He was used as a shut down guy in junior and his pts/game stats were 0.52. I see some potential in him being more than the safe top 4D. He clearly is smart and knows how to adjust to his surroundings. Only 24 NHL games so far with 3 pts.

It's very early and I have to admit, he looks more compose and mature than what you typically see in a 21 year old defenseman.

 

[montreal]

he looks more compose and mature than what you typically see in a 21 year old defenseman.

that was always his game, that's why he was a safe bet to play in the NHL at the draft, as his defensive game is top notch and he's very poised, smart and hard working. The question has been what his offensive upside is, and he needs to work on getting a little quicker.

 

[Habs Halifax]

that was always his game, that's why he was a safe bet to play in the NHL at the draft, as his defensive game is top notch and he's very poised, smart and hard working. The question has been what his offensive upside is, and he needs to work on getting a little quicker.

Ill be totally fine if he turns into a Emelin but better in his own end. We need a reliable guy that takes up a lot of space and gets the puck to the forwards. It's nice to have a guy like Subban who is good at everything but I'm liking what I see in Juulsen. I think he can chip in with 5 goals and 20-30 pts down the road while being reliable in our own end. 2nd PP unit potential

 

[montreal]

Ill be totally fine if he turns into a Emelin but better in his own end. We need a reliable guy that takes up a lot of space and gets the puck to the forwards. It's nice to have a guy like Subban who is good at everything but I'm liking what I see in Juulsen. I think he can chip in with 5 goals and 20-30 pts down the road while being reliable in our own end. 2nd PP unit potential

I hope he can be much better then Emelin, who was a decent 5th or so type. I don't know if he can put up close to 30 pts or not, it would be great if he can.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I hope he can be much better then Emelin, who was a decent 5th or so type. I don't know if he can put up close to 30 pts or not, it would be great if he can.

I tried to take a basement approach (Emelin) and then project better. haha

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I don’t see Juulsen playing a conservative game now at all. In fact, this is the most offensively bold as I’ve ever seen from him.

 

[Mrb1p]

I hope he can be much better then Emelin, who was a decent 5th or so type. I don't know if he can put up close to 30 pts or not, it would be great if he can.

Surely has the tools for it, but he seems to think to sage at times. Its in his bones to be a positive player.

 

[scrubadam]

This kid is an NHL player.

Look around the league all teams take their young players and let them flourish in the NHL. And then we whine and cry why we don't have these young guys and are stuck with Alzners and Benns and Schlemko's.

Until he gets overwhelmed there is no reason to send him down. He is already top 4 on this team. IMO the only way to go for him is up.

 

[BIG GIFS]

 

[Legend123]

I don’t see Juulsen playing a conservative game now at all. In fact, this is the most offensively bold as I’ve ever seen from him.

Julien has let all his Dman know that due to the lack of elite talent up front they should pinch whenever possible.
And Juulsen has the perfect mobility for that and playing D.