Friedman: Noah Hanifin has told Calgary Flames he’d like to go to United States

[Rob Brown]

Canada has f***ed around lots these last few years, now they're finding out

 

[jackjohnson]

Right, but you are comparing a city like NY City to Calgary. If I had a choice and have millions, I would most likely like to go out to the night life, or eat out at nice restaurants, able to see Knicks/mets/yankees/giants/jets/nets if I like to go see games of other sports.

I obviously don't know calgary and have never been, wouldn't mind visiting to be honest, but does calgary have what I have listed above? Not to mention, a player who plays in NYC has the ability to move to NJ or Connecticut and doesn't need to live in NYC. In Calgary, where else are you going to go?

Why are you comparing NYC to Calgary? NYC and LA are world class cities obviously, like London or HongKong. I want to know who chooses to live in Columbus or Buffalo vs. Calgary? What is there to do in places like Buffalo? Columbus? Detroit? There are some areas in US cities where you can't walk at night and some areas that feel like favelas in Rio. Comparing NYC or LA to Calgary is not fair to do since not all Americans are playing in those cities.

 

[Bond]

Not really specific to Calgary.. just Americans playing in Canada

I think teams like Calgary and Edmonton can attract players when the team is competitive but when they aren’t competitive they aren’t attractive and that’s what we are seeing play out in Calgary.
Covid definitely threw a kink into Calgary’s plans though. The combination of Sutter and the recent lockdowns apparently played a big role into Gaudreau not re-signing and then Tkachuk following suit. Gaudreau re-signs and this exodus doesn’t happen.

 

[ReHabs]

You can't even expect Americans to honour the contracts they've signed, such is the animosity they have for playing in Canada. Look at how Jeff Petry did it -- totally shameless.

Canadian organizations have to learn from these experiences and take the right lessons. Either do better to entice them to stay or don't acquire them in the first place. This is getting obnoxious.

 

[Rob Brown]

Weirdly enough, Kessel still loves Toronto. He obviously dislikes our media, but I believe he married a Toronto girl, and the first time he won the cup he came back here to celebrate at a mansion in Forest Hill.

He took the Cup to Sick Kids.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Oilers fans need to be careful. This is more about guys wanting to play in Canada just a matter of time. Don't like it but players seem to be dictating more these days.

nah, we got shit on already from the Pronger fiasco back in the day, then the Heatley fiasco

we've taken our fair share of lumps over the years

 

[Detroit Knights]

Matthew Tkachuk came out of the OHL. Patrick Kane came out of the OHL. Matthews came out of Switzerland. Jason Robertson is an OHL guy. There are multiple NHL stars from the States who didn't come out of the OHL. Jack and Quinn Hughes grew up in Toronto. Those are quite a few of the most prominant American's in the NHL. Obviously, there are NCAA guys like Eichel, Gaudreau, McAvoy, Adam Fox, Brady Tkachuk, etc.

I think saying American's don't want to play in Canada is overly simplistic. Patrick Kane apparently had a two team trade list, with one of them being a Canadian team. Kessel forced his way to Toronto when he was in Boston (I forgot who, but there was a 2nd American team in the bidding).

Yeah, but where were the leagues at at that time?

The OHL when Kane was playing was far better than NCAA or any leagues in US. Canada has a far superior foothold on players playing in young leagues and it isn't close. Now that the NCAA has been gaining steam, I guess that could change, but if you are U18, then you would be very smart to play in a canadian league (or europe) if you and your family have the means to do so. When I was playing in Detroit travel team (90's, not a big deal) we would travel to windsor to play in tournaments and get spanked because the development was just better; however, we used to beat everyone in the US. Is it the same still? may or may not be.

Playing in the OHL with a billet family as a teenager to try and make it to the NHL is quite different than having the ability to make your own decision once you hit UFA and can play where you want.

Why are you comparing NYC to Calgary? NYC and LA are world class cities obviously, like London or HongKong. I want to know who chooses to live in Columbus or Buffalo vs. Calgary? What is there to do in places like Buffalo? Columbus? Detroit? There are some areas in US cities where you can't walk at night and some areas that feel like favelas in Rio. Comparing NYC or LA to Calgary is not fair to do since not all Americans are playing in those cities.

lmao because the guy I was responding to did.

dude keep up, read the conversation before you chime in. jesus man that's twice already within an hour.

 

[93LEAFS]

Right, but you are comparing a city like NY City to Calgary. If I had a choice and have millions, I would most likely like to go out to the night life, or eat out at nice restaurants, able to see Knicks/mets/yankees/giants/jets/nets if I like to go see games of other sports.

I obviously don't know calgary and have never been, wouldn't mind visiting to be honest, but does calgary have what I have listed above? Not to mention, a player who plays in NYC has the ability to move to NJ or Connecticut and doesn't need to live in NYC. In Calgary, where else are you going to go?

I'm not comparing them. I've been to both, if I had millions I would choose to live in Manhattan over Calgary (same with San Jose, Boston, Chicago pretty easily), and it wouldn't take me long to think about. But, you are the one talking about the million-dollar difference which only really applies to a select few markets (Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Vegas, and Nashville off the top of my head). And, if you are going to live in a desirable neighborhood in the wealthy parts of the NYC suburbs you are going to get a significant property tax bill. Extrapolating Calgary and Winnipeg's issues universally to Canadian teams would be like lumping Columbus in with Chicago.

He took the Cup to Sick Kids.

Yeah, he also celebrated at one of the Kimel's houses (one of the Ottawa bidders) mansions in Forest Hill, but not shocked he took it to Sick Kids. He was always low-key about it, but he was big on visiting the kids in the cancer ward due to what he went through.

 

[jackjohnson]

I think teams like Calgary and Edmonton can attract players when the team is competitive but when they aren’t competitive they aren’t attractive and that’s what we are seeing play out in Calgary.
Covid definitely threw a kink into Calgary’s plans though. The combination of Sutter and the recent lockdowns apparently played a big role into Gaudreau not re-signing and then Tkachuk following suit. Gaudreau re-signs and this exodus doesn’t happen.

Again, I don't think covid was any reason why the Flames are experiencing this mass exodus while mismanagement by Flames is the number one reason why players are moving out. If covid restrictions played that important of a role, those American players would have asked for a trade during the pandemic not 2 year after that when everything is back to normal. Not like the pandemic happens regularly. I also don't see other American players asking to be traded other than just the Falmes organization.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Right, but you are comparing a city like NY City to Calgary. If I had a choice and have millions, I would most likely like to go out to the night life, or eat out at nice restaurants, able to see Knicks/mets/yankees/giants/jets/nets if I like to go see games of other sports.

I obviously don't know calgary and have never been, wouldn't mind visiting to be honest, but does calgary have what I have listed above? Not to mention, a player who plays in NYC has the ability to move to NJ or Connecticut and doesn't need to live in NYC. In Calgary, where else are you going to go?

We have a nice restaurant.

Matthew Tkachuk came out of the OHL. Patrick Kane came out of the OHL. Matthews came out of Switzerland. Jason Robertson is an OHL guy. There are multiple NHL stars from the States who didn't come out of the OHL. Jack and Quinn Hughes grew up in Toronto. Those are quite a few of the most prominant American's in the NHL. Obviously, there are NCAA guys like Eichel, Gaudreau, McAvoy, Adam Fox, Brady Tkachuk, etc.

Matthews and Tkachuk spent a lot of time in the USNTDP though. I don't think you can ignore USA hockey has come a very long way in the last 10-15 years. Canada has mostly stayed stagnant.

I think saying American's don't want to play in Canada is overly simplistic. Patrick Kane apparently had a two team trade list, with one of them being a Canadian team. Kessel forced his way to Toronto when he was in Boston (I forgot who, but there was a 2nd American team in the bidding).

There's a difference though in signing up a 34 year old Patrick Kane for a playoff run than a 25 year old Auston Matthews for another long term contract.

 

[93LEAFS]

We have a nice restaurant.



Matthews and Tkachuk spent a lot of time in the USNTDP though. I don't think you can ignore USA hockey has come a very long way in the last 10-15 years. Canada has mostly stayed stagnant.



There's a difference though in signing up a 34 year old Patrick Kane for a playoff run than a 25 year old Auston Matthews for another long term contract.

I'm not ignoring it, but a ton of the American talent has played in Canada.

And, on the Matthews front, I guess we will find out soon what he truly wants to do, but most indications are he wants to work out a deal with the Leafs. And Kessel (a pretty marquee American player at the time) came to the Leafs as an RFA, and then re-signed long-term (and didn't exactly want to leave).

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'm not comparing them. I've been to both, if I had millions I would choose to live in Manhattan over Calgary (same with San Jose, Boston, Chicago pretty easily), and it wouldn't take me long to think about. But, you are the one talking about the million-dollar difference which only really applies to a select few markets (Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Vegas, and Nashville off the top of my head). And, if you are going to live in a desirable neighborhood in the wealthy parts of the NYC suburbs you are going to get a significant property tax bill. Extrapolating Calgary and Winnipeg's issues universally to Canadian teams would be like lumping Columbus in with Chicago.


Yeah, he also celebrated at one of the Kimel's houses (one of the Ottawa bidders) mansions in Forest Hill, but not shocked he took it to Sick Kids. He was always low-key about it, but he was big on visiting the kids in the cancer ward due to what he went through.

Yes but you are the one who brought up NYC that people still sign there regardless of taxes.

I never brought up nyc and was talking about tkachuk and him choosing florida. If you want to talk about NYC then Kane went there because it was probably a childhood dream. Panarin loves to party, at least did. If I was playing, I would choose detroit because it would be special to wear an original 6 jersey (doesn't hurt they are my favorite and i'm from detroit).

Yes, players still choose places regardless of taxes, I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is the premise that taxes doesn't matter is profoundly stupid. Just like a guy like Bertuzzi would sign in Arizona because they offered the most money, some players take paycuts to play in better position clubs.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I'm not ignoring it, but a ton of the American talent has played in Canada.

And, on the Matthews front, I guess we will find out soon what he truly wants to do, but most indications are he wants to work out a deal with the Leafs. And Kessel (a pretty marquee American player at the time) came to the Leafs as an RFA, and then re-signed long-term (and didn't exactly want to leave).

Man fair warning, but I've heard that before.

I hope he does stay with the Leafs. Toronto can offer things most Canadian markets can't. Still might not be enough.

 

[Bond]

Again, I don't think covid was any reason why the Flames are experiencing this mass exodus while mismanagement by Flames is the number one reason why players are moving out. If covid restrictions played that important of a role, those American players would have asked for a trade during the pandemic not 2 year after that when everything is back to normal. Not like the pandemic happens regularly. I also don't see other American players asking to be traded other than just the Falmes organization.

Covid wasn't the only reason that Gaudreau didn't re-sign but it definitely played into his decision. Apparently he was willing to sign in the summer before the 21/22 season but Tre got cute and it didn't happen. When it came down to wire last offseason he decided to hit free agency and part of it the reason was that him and his wife just had a baby and she was nervous about getting locked down again and Sutter was probably enough of a prick that Gaudreau was amenable to moving.
It was combination of factors that led to the current shit show. I think if Covid doesn't happen then Gaudreau re-signs.

 

[Some Other Flame]

It's a lot easier to blame external "uncontrollable" factors like 'Americans don't want to play in Canada" or "covid" rather than accept the reality that the Flames were chronically mismanaged under a hilariously overrated GM in Treliving and an idiot of an owner in Murray Edwards which helped drive away their two franchise talents. And it's easy to see why so many Flames fans still in denial will pick the former over the latter.

Generally, players fall into 3 broad categories in terms of where they want to go: specific location (e.g. Fox with the Rangers), winning, money

Currently, the Flames are not able to offer a competitive team and if you believe the rumors, are finally holding a firm line on money. Which in combination means, no shit none of these UFA's looking for their first or last major payday or a final chance to win don't want to stay. The worst thing the organization could have done was to offer bloated contracts for way too long to milquetoast talents like Toffoli or Hanifin under the delusion that these guys are core players.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yes but you are the one who brought up NYC that people still sign there regardless of taxes.

I never brought up nyc and was talking about tkachuk and him choosing florida. If you want to talk about NYC then Kane went there because it was probably a childhood dream. Panarin loves to party, at least did. If I was playing, I would choose detroit because it would be special to wear an original 6 jersey (doesn't hurt they are my favorite and i'm from detroit).

Yes, players still choose places regardless of taxes, I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is the premise that taxes doesn't matter is profoundly stupid. Just like a guy like Bertuzzi would sign in Arizona because they offered the most money, some players take paycuts to play in better position clubs.

You broadly took the position that most American's don't want to be in Canada, especially high-earning ones. I personally would have a ton of American teams ahead of Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Winnipeg, but that doesn't mean I don't want to be in Canada. And, I would gladly choose Toronto or Montreal over most American markets that aren't NYC or Chicago.

 

[These Are The Days]

South Alberta is just basically extended Montana, right?

Some of our craziest crazies live in Montana.......we gotta spread that wealth out........

I'd have argued Alberta was north Texas, just not joined to it directly

 

[Bond]

It's a lot easier to blame external "uncontrollable" factors like 'Americans don't want to play in Canada" or "covid" rather than accept the reality that the Flames were chronically mismanaged under a hilariously overrated GM in Treliving and an idiot of an owner in Murray Edwards which helped drive away their two franchise talents. And it's easy to see why so many Flames fans still in denial will pick the former over the latter.

Tre is sure skating on the blame among some Flames fans. He managed them directly into this mess by overpaying Brouwer/Neal and then deciding to play hardball with Gaudreau on his extension in the summer before his last season. Rumours are rumours but apparently he was willing to sign for 8 million a year which was a bit rich given his Cvoid seasons but he was still the best forward on the Flames at the time.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Ok this was not a trend a few months ago. You are just bringing this up now because of the Calgary mass exodus. Yes there is always some American players that want to play in US but that was nothing new and was not considered a trend. People I think need to relax about this idea of Americans not wanting to play in Canada.


The metric system is a much accurate way to measure. I mean who uses Farenheit instead of Celsius except Americans

It was tongue in cheek bud.

 

[blankall]

Weirdly enough, Kessel still loves Toronto. He obviously dislikes our media, but I believe he married a Toronto girl, and the first time he won the cup he came back here to celebrate at a mansion in Forest Hill.

He may have some good friends in the city, but he definitely doesn't like the fans either. He seems to stick it to them (a bit tongue in cheek) every chance he gets.

 

[norrisnick]

Now multiply that by 8 years.
Thats a lot of money

Yup. $47,000,000. Who the f*** cares about taxes if that's what you're pulling in afterwards?

The people that scream loudest about taxes are those that shouldn't f***ing care. They're wealthy either way.

 

[93LEAFS]

He may have some good friends in the city, but he definitely doesn't like the fans either. He seems to stick it to them (a bit tongue in cheek) every chance he gets.

Ran into him at a nightclub in Toronto when he was a Penguin (he was out with like half the team including Sid), he didn't seem to mind the fans and was pretty nice to everyone. I think the shots are more directed at people like Steve Simmons and Damien Cox than the fans, and maybe some of the idiot fans who believed that narrative.

 

[Bond]

Yup. $47,000,000. Who the f*** cares about taxes if that's what you're pulling in afterwards?

The people that scream loudest about taxes are those that shouldn't f***ing care. They're wealthy either way.

I actually think the fans who scream the loudest about taxes are the ones who blaime that instead of crappy management lol

 

[madmike77]

LOL this offseason has been great

but probably a noghtmare for Calgary fans who dont deserve this

Oiler fans are dying over on their board

Oil fans won’t be laughing long. They’ll be in the same boat soon. And it will be harder to build around McDavid with U.S. players deciding they won’t play in Edmonton (or anywhere else in Canada for that matter).

Whether fans like it or not, Canadian teams are at a competitive disadvantage now.

 

[norrisnick]

I actually think the fans who scream the loudest about taxes are the ones who blaime that instead of crappy management lol

That too.