NL/AL MVP Discussion: Donaldson wins AL, Harper wins NL

[Hire Sather]

his play suffered after he was hit on the wrist with a pitch.

maybe you could read the thread before gracing us with your typical ********?

so what? That doesn't give him a pass when it comes to awarding MVP.

His play suffered, and the Angels almost fell out of the race during his extended cold spell.

Donaldson raked all year and lead his team to the postseason.

I did read the thread. Donaldson is acknowledged as a close race, but as usual people just can't get past the WAR and whatnot. Oh no Trout's WAR is .5 higher, I can't possibly see how Donaldson can get it! Trout screwed for the third time!!

 

[Ozamataz Buckshank]

I wish the MVP was just the best position player award so people would stop creating narratives to justify why an inferior player like Donaldson deserves it

trout 4 lyfe

it's just amazing that this has happened to trout three times now.

he's got the same curse as Pujols

 

[Hire Sather]

I will say though that the baseball writers should decide nothing.

 

[PanthersPens62]

so what? That doesn't give him a pass when it comes to awarding MVP.

His play suffered, and the Angels almost fell out of the race during his extended cold spell.

Donaldson raked all year and lead his team to the postseason.

I did read the thread. Donaldson is acknowledged as a close race, but as usual people just can't get past the WAR and whatnot. Oh no Trout's WAR is .5 higher, I can't possibly see how Donaldson can get it! Trout screwed for the third time!!

As always, you nailed it, Sather!

 

[Static]

so what? That doesn't give him a pass when it comes to awarding MVP.

His play suffered, and the Angels almost fell out of the race during his extended cold spell.

Donaldson raked all year and lead his team to the postseason.

I did read the thread. Donaldson is acknowledged as a close race, but as usual people just can't get past the WAR and whatnot. Oh no Trout's WAR is .5 higher, I can't possibly see how Donaldson can get it! Trout screwed for the third time!!

Another completely illogical post. Trout, at the end of the year, had a better season. That's what the numbers say.

What you are saying is, sorry Mike, I don't care about your full body of work, you were worse for one stretch of the season. You lose. I don't care if you were better 85% of the time, I'm going to arbitrarily place more importance on the 15% of the time you weren't.

Now please, explain to me in English how that remotely makes any god damn sense.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Didn't Donaldson have a really bad June or something like that? And I'm pretty sure at that time the Jays weren't doing so hot either, but yeah I guess he turned around that clubhouse. Bautista, EE, Dickey, Buerhle, Martin, Tulo, Price probably had nothing to with that. It's like they were a .500 team all year until AA made a few colossal additions.

 

[Hire Sather]

Another completely illogical post. Trout, at the end of the year, had a better season. That's what the numbers say.

What you are saying is, sorry Mike, I don't care about your full body of work, you were worse for one stretch of the season. You lose. I don't care if you were better 85% of the time, I'm going to arbitrarily place more importance on the 15% of the time you weren't.

Now please, explain to me in English how that remotely makes any god damn sense.

Yeah, I'm going to place a lot of importance on how he played during the stretch run. You act like it means nothing.

He rebounded in September, but his poor play in August put the Angels behind a huge 8ball.

The thing that upsets me is the total outrage. Like its no contest and theres no way Donaldson should've won. It could've gone either way.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Oh, his poor play put the Angels behind the 8ball?

It's good to know he's the only one responsible for their wins and losses.

 

[Static]

Yeah, I'm going to place a lot of importance on how he played during the stretch run. You act like it means nothing.

He rebounded in September, but his poor play in August put the Angels behind a huge 8ball.

The thing that upsets me is the total outrage. Like its no contest and theres no way Donaldson should've won. It could've gone either way.

"The stretch run" is no different than any other time during the season. Why don't you understand that? The wins count exactly the same.

 

[Static]

And in September, during this bogus more important time, Trout's line: 326, 444, 674, 1119

Donaldson's: 244, 364, 433, 798.

But hey, when you mean stretch run, I know you mean the stretch run before the stretch run, right?

Anything to make the argument work.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Didn't Trout go completley cold for a 3-4 week period in August/September?


Angels fell like 5 games out because of it. Did make a run back, but Trout's cold spell really hurt the Angels during the race.

But I know we are suppose to just look at the numbers and not actually think about how it all happened.

might wanna take a look at the month by month splits between the two.
Even when Trout struggled after being hit on the wrist in august, he came back and crushed it in september

 

[Muston Atthews]

Again, Donaldson was dealing with an injury for a lot of the season as well.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Again, Donaldson was dealing with an injury for a lot of the season as well.

That's why it's important to look at the year as a whole and not just 'the stretch run in august'

 

[darko]

so what? That doesn't give him a pass when it comes to awarding MVP.

His play suffered, and the Angels almost fell out of the race during his extended cold spell.

Donaldson raked all year and lead his team to the postseason.

I did read the thread. Donaldson is acknowledged as a close race, but as usual people just can't get past the WAR and whatnot. Oh no Trout's WAR is .5 higher, I can't possibly see how Donaldson can get it! Trout screwed for the third time!!

You can call it a cold spell but despite that Trout's offensive numbers are still better than Donalson's.

 

[darko]

"The stretch run" is no different than any other time during the season. Why don't you understand that? The wins count exactly the same.

Winning a game in September counts as 1.5 in the win column.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Winning a game in September counts as 1.5 in the win column.

Records in September

Angels 18-9

Jays 18-9

Trout's ops in sept: above 1.100

Jd's: .798

Hmm....

 

[darko]

Records in September

Angels 18-9

Jays 18-9

Trout's ops in sept: above 1.100

Jd's: .798

Hmm....

Yup. There goes that argument.

 

[Hire Sather]

If you guys can't see that it is at least a debate between the two, you are way too caught up in metrics.

Everyone posting the September stats like that cancels what I originally said. I already said in the post after that he rebounded in September.

By the way, the wins count the same.. but an AB in the heat of a pennant race in August/September is not the same as an AB in May.

Not to say Trout can't handle the pressure or anything, not saying that at all.. but you can't say the pressure is the same in August/September as it is in April.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Of course this is open for debate.

The arguments for Trout have been he was better in more key stats (fact)

Arguments for Donaldson have been mostly opinionated and subjective, like team narrative, rbi's, and Trout slumping during the stretch run known as August.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I am really happy Donaldson won as a Jays fan and I don't think him winning is ridiculous like some in this thread make it seem but if I were to take my Jays fan goggles off Trout did have a better season, offensively there is really no argument otherwise honestly. Defensively and baserunning Donaldson was better but was that enough to close the gap between them offensively? I would say no but I also don't think Donaldson winning is egregious they were very very close.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I am really happy Donaldson won as a Jays fan and I don't think him winning is ridiculous like some in this thread make it seem but if I were to take my Jays fan goggles off Trout did have a better season, offensively there is really no argument otherwise honestly. Defensively and baserunning Donaldson was better but was that enough to close the gap between them offensively? I would say no but I also don't think Donaldson winning is egregious they were very very close.

I've read a few things showing that Trout and JD's baserunning was basically a wash. JD was very smart and calculated and ran into very few outs. Trout ran into more but also took more bases when the opportunity presented itself.

Likely has a lot to do when you have Bautista, EE, Martin, Tulo behind you vs. The corpse of Albert Pujols.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I've read a few things showing that Trout and JD's baserunning was basically a wash. JD was very smart and calculated and ran into very few outs. Trout ran into more but also took more bases when the opportunity presented itself.

Likely has a lot to do when you have Bautista, EE, Martin, Tulo behind you vs. The corpse of Albert Pujols.

I doubt Donaldson's base running had anything to do with who was hitting behind him also wouldn't Pujols have been hitting behind Trout if so how would he be clogging the bases for him? I don't think the baserunning numbers have anything to do with the teams honestly I just put a lot less weight into them then the more reliable and more definite hitting numbers.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I doubt Donaldson's base running had anything to do with who was hitting behind him also wouldn't Pujols have been hitting behind Trout if so how would he be clogging the bases for him? I don't think the baserunning numbers have anything to do with the teams honestly I just put a lot less weight into them then the more reliable and more definite hitting numbers.

When you have guys hitting 40 bombs each back to back behind you there really isn't a need to push the envelope and be aggressive for the extra base or stolen base as much. There's a good chance that someone is gonna drive you in or advance you or whatever. When you've got weekend at bernie's and half the cast of the bad news bears batting after you there is a bit more pressure for you to create runs through baserunning ala Royals.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

When you have guys hitting 40 bombs each back to back behind you there really isn't a need to push the envelope and be aggressive for the extra base or stolen base as much. There's a good chance that someone is gonna drive you in or advance you or whatever. When you've got weekend at bernie's and half the cast of the bad news bears batting after you there is a bit more pressure for you to create runs through baserunning ala Royals.

Isn't the general idea that the reason Trout's base running numbers are down because he just doesn't run as much as he used too? Also you don't get good baserunning numbers by keeping yourself parked at first base and waiting for a bomb if Donaldson did that he wouldn't be a good base runner.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Isn't the general idea that the reason Trout's base running numbers are down because he just doesn't run as much as he used too? Also you don't get good baserunning numbers by keeping yourself parked at first base and waiting for a bomb if Donaldson did that he wouldn't be a good base runner.

I just mean he can be a bit choosier about picking his spots. As I mentioned, JD was very good on the basepaths.