Post-Game Talk: NJD @ WSH | 1/2/22 (!) | 3:00p ET

[txpd]

If this team finished the season 0-82 would txpd still find 0 flaws in the coaching staff/scheme?

Hmm...I see. So, me asking what faster players we are talking about and I am the problem? Let me try again. The Caps have the top goal scorer in the history of the league and the best scoring defenseman in the current era of the league. They have a fast, creative elite playmaker out there with them and they NEVER score. Take them off for less players or change the tactics?

 

[Peeri]

Hmm...I see. So, me asking what faster players we are talking about and I am the problem? Let me try again. The Caps have the top goal scorer in the history of the league and the best scoring defenseman in the current era of the league. They have a fast, creative elite playmaker out there with them and they NEVER score. Take them off for less players or change the tactics?

Sometimes i feel like you just troll for the fun of it. But sure, Ovechkin being absolute monster on 5v5 just doesn't translate to 3vs3 hockey. You just need complete different skillset and at this point in his career he just doesn't have it anymore, no shame in that. Myself i don't have problem playing carlson on OT, it's more of Schultz before Jensen issue for me.

 

[txpd]

Because Lavi's decision making for 3v3 utilization is beyond reproach, right? That's why the Capitals are an OT monster team that rarely loses in OT, right?

Would you like to quote a post where I said anything like that? I have said more than once in this thread that something is wrong and the they NEVER....I used ALL CAPS....NEVER score.

You dont get to just make up shit to take shots at me.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Sometimes i feel like you just troll for the fun of it. But sure, Ovechkin being absolute monster on 5v5 just doesn't translate to 3vs3 hockey. You just need complete different skillset and at this point in his career he just doesn't have it anymore, no shame in that. Myself i don't have problem playing carlson on OT, it's more of Schultz before Jensen issue for me.

You’re benching Ovechkin in OTs?

 

[txpd]

Sometimes i feel like you just troll for the fun of it. But sure, Ovechkin being absolute monster on 5v5 just doesn't translate to 3vs3 hockey. You just need complete different skillset and at this point in his career he just doesn't have it anymore, no shame in that. Myself i don't have problem playing carlson on OT, it's more of Schultz before Jensen issue for me.

I dont troll, Boss. Someone says we need to player our faster players. All I did was ask which players those were. You answer the question with Jensen over Schultz. Ok. That might work. My next question is that Schultz or Jensen are fringe players in the 3 on 3 set up. Orlov or Carlson are out first and the other one follows. When the 3rd Wilson out with McMichael and I would give Hathaway and Hagelin shifts. Those are the fastest forwards in addition to Kuzy. You still need one of 9 or 74 if you want to score something particularly if the forwards you have out dont have a lot of finish.

 

[Capsman]

Hmm...I see. So, me asking what faster players we are talking about and I am the problem? Let me try again. The Caps have the top goal scorer in the history of the league and the best scoring defenseman in the current era of the league. They have a fast, creative elite playmaker out there with them and they NEVER score. Take them off for less players or change the tactics?

Playing 3 on 3, goal scoring ability is a small part of what it takes to succeed. Not only speed but acceleration is hugely important. It may be that at OV’s age playing that many minutes doesn’t leave a lot in the tank for OT, but whatever the case we can’t do worse. Play McMichael for a shift, see what happens.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

It really defies logic that a forward at this level can be as bad at offense as Hagelin.

 

[Peeri]

You’re benching Ovechkin in OTs?

Not bench, but in my opinion he shouldn't be the go to guy in OT. You can utilize him and use his unique skillset, but expecting him to deliver good results in OT regularly is losing play. 3v3 is all about possession and it's one thing he isn't very good at anymore.

 

[Peeri]

@twabby are there some Advanced stats from OT only? OV perhaps, i'm curious.

 

[txpd]

Playing 3 on 3, goal scoring ability is a small part of what it takes to succeed. Not only speed but acceleration is hugely important. It may be that at OV’s age playing that many minutes doesn’t leave a lot in the tank for OT, but whatever the case we can’t do worse. Play McMichael for a shift, see what happens.

Speed and acceleration sounds like.....nevermind. I checked the OT TOI/g this season. AJF, Pilon, Protas have more time on average than McMichael. AJF played in 1 overtime game and played over a minute in that OT. You have to wonder what the reasoning is for that. Its not that McMichael is a rookie.

 

[Carlzner]

Speed and acceleration sounds like.....nevermind. I checked the OT TOI/g this season. AJF, Pilon, Protas have more time on average than McMichael. AJF played in 1 overtime game and played over a minute in that OT. You have to wonder what the reasoning is for that. Its not that McMichael is a rookie.

The reasoning is poor coaching, tx. They are 0-7 in OTs.

 

[Hivemind]

Would you like to quote a post where I said anything like that? I have said more than once in this thread that something is wrong and the they NEVER....I used ALL CAPS....NEVER score.

You dont get to just make up shit to take shots at me.

When your constant refrain is Time on Ice and "the coach doesn't trust XYZ," then you're making a tacit argument that the coach is correct. When it comes to OT, the results clearly differ.
I didn't make anything up, you just don't like it when people point out the very obvious flaws in your constant Appeal to Authority arguments.

 

[Hivemind]

@twabby are there some Advanced stats from OT only? OV perhaps, i'm curious.

I'm not Twabby, but there are stats for 3on3. The very huge caveat is that the sample sizes are tiny. These skaters still have less 3on3 time all season they would have ice time in a single game.

I don't believe today's game has been factored in yet, but Ovie has a 59.09% CF%, 46.08 xGF%, and obviously a 0% actual GF% in 3on3 this season. The big discrepancy between his favorable shot attempts metric and his unfavorable expected goals for is due to the fact he's sporting just a 33% High Danger Chances For rate. He's been on the ice for 5 OT goals against, tied for the most on the team with Kuznetsov.

 

[txpd]

The reasoning is poor coaching, tx. They are 0-7 in OTs.

Not sure what you do about that then. Laviolette is on the leading edge of an Adams Trophy this season, getting skunked in OT or not. Maybe if you were able to look deeper into the 3 on 3 troubles you might find the power play problems in their too.

 

[Baszie]

@twabby are there some Advanced stats from OT only? OV perhaps, i'm curious.

Naturalstattrick has 3v3 stats.

 

[txpd]

When your constant refrain is Time on Ice and "the coach doesn't trust XYZ," then you're making a tacit argument that the coach is correct. When it comes to OT, the results clearly differ.
I didn't make anything up, you just don't like it when people point out the very obvious flaws in your constant Appeal to Authority arguments.

Come on, Boss. By pointing out what he is doing, that means I approve of it? Ask a damn question. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Hivemind]

Come on, Boss. By pointing out what he is doing, that means I approve of it? Ask a damn question. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Here's a question for you - would you admit that Lavi's utilization of players in 3on3 has been suboptimal this season?

 

[Hivemind]

best scoring defenseman in the current era of the league.

Is the "current era of the league" only the past few seasons? Because Carlson isn't even close to the active leader among defensemen in points (Brent Burns), and Erik Karlsson has nearly 100 more points in 30 fewer games played. John Carlson being a peer of Kris Letang in offensive ability is nothing to sneeze at, especially with his surge in the past few years, but calling him the best scoring defenseman of this era of the league is a stretch.

 

[txpd]

Here's a question for you - would you admit that Lavi's utilization of players in 3on3 has been suboptimal this season?

Sure. See? Was that so hard?

 

[Hivemind]

Sure. See? Was that so hard?

Then what the hell are you arguing about? If even you admit the player usage has room for improvement, why must you come out here and argue with everyone who wants to see different players used in OT?

 

[Baszie]

Looking at the 3v3 stats of last year the best options would be Hags followed by Sprong. (No samplesize). The slow and experienced regulars have bad stats.

 

[txpd]

Is the "current era of the league" only the past few seasons? Because Carlson isn't even close to the active leader among defensemen in points (Brent Burns), and Erik Karlsson has nearly 100 more points in 30 fewer games played. John Carlson being a peer of Kris Letang in offensive ability is nothing to sneeze at, especially with his surge in the past few years, but calling him the best scoring defenseman of this era of the league is a stretch.

Enjoy my posts. This my last answer. Since 2017-18 Carlson has outscored every defenseman in the league by 47pts. He has outscored friggin Kristopher Letang by 71pts. Thats what I was referring to. This would be a 5 season run. You are welcome to suggest that Carlson isnt the best scoring defenseman in the league if you like. Have a nice day

 

[twabby]

@twabby are there some Advanced stats from OT only? OV perhaps, i'm curious.

There are stats at Evolving Hockey, but as far as I can tell these stats have never been tested in 3v3 situations to prove if they are useful or not. We know that xGF models, for instance, have good predictive power at 5v5 but without knowing about their predictive power at 3v3 I don’t want to put much stock into them.

Still, they are here: Evolving-Hockey.com | Standard Skater Stats

 

[HTFN]

Can't believe I'm agreeing with @Hivemind to argue with @txpd but seriously, if the results are piss poor what the f*** are you even arguing about?

"well the coaches are using it" is not an argument.

 

[PlushMinus]

You’re benching Ovechkin in OTs?

I'd reduce the amount of time he gets. With only 3 players covering the entire rink it's risky having a guy like him out there because he does turn the puck over more than some of our other players and he just isn't fast enough to get back defensively.
In today's game he passed the puck to a guy who was changing and ended up icing it.
I've also seen other teams just roll with their best offensive players and not bother with having a D out there on every shift. Laviolette's 3 on 3 deployment is kind of weird and so is the way the team plays OT. They seem to treat it as an extension of 5 on 5 / regular 60 mins. I don't think they practice it AT ALL because they always look so awkward out there like they're making it up as they go along.

And it's not rocket science: you try to maintain possession of the puck long enough to create a high quality scoring opportunity, because you know that if you don't score you are handing over the puck and then the opposition are going to try and do exactly the same thing. At which point your guys need to be able to patiently defend and try to prevent a high quality chance, etc. To me that is ALL there is to 3 on 3.