Proposal: NJD-VGK trade

[Rico Suave]

NJ takes on a cap dump and gives the best player....pretty sure they hang up

 

[Puckclektr]

Trading Vatanen is intruguing in that I don't see (or want to see) the Devils signing him to a big $ extension. Don't think he's the right guy for that.

This is purely speculative, but What would work great is using Vatanen for a trade for a winger to a team that needs a RD and then signing Gardiner to a short term deal to play LD which would firm up the Devils Top 9 and even out the D pairings - probably with Subban and Gardiner on 1st pair.

If Gardiner ends up going for a 1 year prove it or a 2 year deal this could work.

Another team this may work with is Florida & Mike Hoffman. Vatanen-Hoffman seems to be a need addressing fit for both teams, they both have virtually the same salary and the same term. Gardiner/Hoffman make s a better Devils team than Vatanen in 2019.

Gardiner subban first pairing. Are you serious?

 

[dragovici]

I think people on here severely underestimate Gusev. He is so damn good. Whichever team ends up getting him gets a steal, i feel.

 

[MoonDragn]

I guess you could have made the same argument against Panarin before he came over, look how that worked out.

I'm not saying that Gusev is going tob e a Panarin but he is hardly a non skilled mature prospect at this point.

Sami isn't a proven #2-3 Dmen, if he is there are literally 100 guys like that in the league.



Really do you think he would be a #3 on either SC finalist team this year in Boston or St. Louis?

He is a decent smallish puck moving defenseman but no longer a real PP guy in any sense of the word.

He would make a decent #3 on a playoff team with the right fit and more likely a 4th dman on many Playoff teams



I guess Hughes isn't the best asset on NJ either using that logic because he has "yet to show it"?

Let me put it another way, Gusev has the highest ceiling of any player in the deal.



I get how it works and Vegas isn't just going to gift a very skilled top 6 forward and add a 2nd for a Dman who has one year left in his contract and isn't really in the future plans of New Jersey after this year anyways.

The question is do you think Adam Henrique is better or worse than Gusev? We traded Henrique for Vatanen so Gusev better be as good or better than Henrique.

It doesn't seem like GMs value him that high:

https://www.tsn.ca/report-underwhel...gas-golden-knights-rfa-nikita-gusev-1.1335913

 

[Davegarri]

The question is do you think Adam Henrique is better or worse than Gusev? We traded Henrique for Vatanen so Gusev better be as good or better than Henrique.

It doesn't seem like GMs value him that high:

https://www.tsn.ca/report-underwhel...gas-golden-knights-rfa-nikita-gusev-1.1335913

GM's just aren't willing to shell out a lot for someone who hasn't played in the NHL. Not worth the risk in their eyes

 

[Stephen Gionta]

New Jersey hangs up the phone. Takes a cap dump AND retains salary on Vatanen? No thank you.

NJD would be interested in a Gusev + Clarkson package though. McLeod + 2020 4th round pick (BOS) + 2019 3rd round pick

 

[GameSeven]

New Jersey hangs up the phone. Takes a cap dump AND retains salary on Vatanen? No thank you.

NJD would be interested in a Gusev + Clarkson package though. McLeod + 2020 4th round pick (BOS) + 2019 3rd round pick

So... [URL="https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/395127/daniil-misyul"]Daniil Misyul at eliteprospects.com[/URL]?

 

[Stephen Gionta]

So... Daniil Misyul at eliteprospects.com?

LOL! I meant 2021 3rd round pick!

 

[wetcoast]

The question is do you think Adam Henrique is better or worse than Gusev? We traded Henrique for Vatanen so Gusev better be as good or better than Henrique.

It doesn't seem like GMs value him that high:

https://www.tsn.ca/report-underwhel...gas-golden-knights-rfa-nikita-gusev-1.1335913

That's not really how one can evaluate any player.

There is the 1.5 year time difference and different teams have different needs.

Also there is no doubt that many GMs are wary of Russian players for reasons other than skillsets.

 

[Zezel22]

Gardiner subban first pairing. Are you serious?

What do you see as the first pair opening night?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What do you see as the first pair opening night?

either Vatanen-Subban or Smith-Subban IMO

 

[milehigh11]

Get what? Clarkson has negative value and Zetterlund is a legitimate OK prospect. Look what TOR had to pay to get rid of Marleau's cap, what CHI had to pay to get rid of Bickell. Adding Gusev to get rid of Clarkson is somewhat fair but adding 2nd round pick for Vatanen swap on top of it is too much IMO.

Marleau PLAYS and put up 40+ points last year. He just makes way too much for what he brings right now

Clarkson is strictly on the Long Term Injury List and DOES NOT PLAY and also makes too much. His salary cap hit goes away once he is put on the LTIR

so really they are not the same at all

 

[theslatcher]

Marleau PLAYS and put up 40+ points last year. He just makes way too much for what he brings right now

Clarkson is strictly on the Long Term Injury List and DOES NOT PLAY and also makes too much. His salary cap hit goes away once he is put on the LTIR

so really they are not the same at all

You do realize Marleau got bought out, right?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Opposing GMs should absolutely scorch Vegas on a Gusev trade and Gusev himself should wield a lot of power in forcing a move to happen.

Gusev and Clarkson for nothing is a fair trade.

Gusev alone for a 2nd round pick is also a lot better than Vegas will end up with if Gusev just walks back to the KHL.

 

[Zezel22]

either Vatanen-Subban or Smith-Subban IMO

I think thats a bit much for Smith out of the gate but its not outrageous. And the point is that Vatanen is out of place on the left.

Its completely speculative but this exchange was in regard to this guy saying that its basically laughable to have Gardiner on the first pair opposite Subban. While I agree that Gardiner is not a 7 year answer, my proposal was that he could suffice in the short term, even in top pair, and esp because he could slide back next year when Greene is gone and (hopefully) LD1 is the top priority for the team (in the case where Hall stays I think LD1 would be the major issue next offseason or even in season).

My idea was that if the Devils and Panthers could match on a Vatanen - Hoffman deal (all speculative) and sign Gardiner to a 1-2 year contract they are better today with this team:

Hall-Hischier-Palmeri
Bratt-Hughes-Hoffman
Coleman-Zajac-Boqvist
Wood-Zacha-Simmonds
Extras: Seney, Hayden

Gardiner-Subban
Smith-Severson
Greene-Butcher/Carrick

-Leaving the likes of Anderson, Bastian, Studenic, McLeod to percolate in Bing-

Than this team:
Hall-Hischier-Palmeri
Bratt-Hughes-Simmonds
Coleman-Zajac-Boqvist
Wood-Zacha-Hayden/Bastian

Vatanen-Subban
Smith-Severson
Greene-Butcher/Carrick

 

[ADD-devil950003]

I think thats a bit much for Smith out of the gate but its not outrageous. And the point is that Vatanen is out of place on the left.

Its completely speculative but this exchange was in regard to this guy saying that its basically laughable to have Gardiner on the first pair opposite Subban. While I agree that Gardiner is not a 7 year answer, my proposal was that he could suffice in the short term, even in top pair, and esp because he could slide back next year when Greene is gone and (hopefully) LD1 is the top priority for the team (in the case where Hall stays I think LD1 would be the major issue next offseason or even in season).

My idea was that if the Devils and Panthers could match on a Vatanen - Hoffman deal (all speculative) and sign Gardiner to a 1-2 year contract they are better today with this team:

Hall-Hischier-Palmeri
Bratt-Hughes-Hoffman
Coleman-Zajac-Boqvist
Wood-Zacha-Simmonds
Extras: Seney, Hayden

Gardiner-Subban
Smith-Severson
Greene-Butcher/Carrick

-Leaving the likes of Anderson, Bastian, Studenic, McLeod to percolate in Bing-

Than this team:
Hall-Hischier-Palmeri
Bratt-Hughes-Simmonds
Coleman-Zajac-Boqvist
Wood-Zacha-Hayden/Bastian

Vatanen-Subban
Smith-Severson
Greene-Butcher/Carrick

Every defensive pairing on the first list has a big defensive liability on it. PK is average defensively and Gardiner is below average. Smith is a rookie and would be relied on to cover for Severson since he is a defensive liability also. Then Andy is where he should be anchoring a 3rd pairing but butcher isn’t great defensively. We would give up a ton of goals and leave Cory/Blackwood out to dry. If we trade Severson or Butcher for a more well rounded top four guy I’m all for getting Gardiner. However, trading one of our better two-way dmen in Vats (who needs to rebound) and signing Gardiner to me is absolutely something Ray should not do...A hockey team needs guys who fill in all roles, it seems like the devils fanbase just wants to corner the market on offensive puck moving dmen who can’t play actual defense. I don’t get it. The actual need is a mean physical shut down top 4 guy and if he can chip in offense then great, but it’s not the need.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Every defensive pairing on the first list has a big defensive liability on it. PK is average defensively and Gardiner is below average. Smith is a rookie and would be relied on to cover for Severson since he is a defensive liability also. Then Andy is where he should be anchoring a 3rd pairing but butcher isn’t great defensively. We would give up a ton of goals and leave Cory/Blackwood out to dry. If we trade Severson or Butcher for a more well rounded top four guy I’m all for getting Gardiner. However, trading one of our better two-way dmen in Vats (who needs to rebound) and signing Gardiner to me is absolutely something Ray should not do...A hockey team needs guys who fill in all roles, it seems like the devils fanbase just wants to corner the market on offensive puck moving dmen who can’t play actual defense. I don’t get it. The actual need is a mean physical shut down top 4 guy and if he can chip in offense then great, but it’s not the need.

Subban is well above-average defensively when he's healthy. But I think he sacrifices some of his offensive potential to accomplish that. I think you'd get more bang for the buck if you paired him with a strong defensive player and he didn't have to take on too much of a defensive burden. But he's entirely capable of doing so. Last season aside, he was our best defensive zone player for the 2 years before that.

 

[Halla]

Wouldn't do it as a Devils fan. If you removed both Vatanen and VGK 2nd round pick, I'd do that though.

not getting the KHL mvp for a B prospect

 

[Blackjack]

not getting the KHL mvp for a B prospect

Weird that the guy is simultaneously worth a top tier prospect and a 1st round pick and also not worth signing for $4 million.

 

[jfhabs]

Clarkson's contract is worth a 1st pick on it's own. Not sure why NJ would be adding Vatanen and retain on his contract on top of it! That would be highway robbery by Vegas

 

[Brazen331]

Clarkson's contract is worth a 1st pick on it's own. Not sure why NJ would be adding Vatanen and retain on his contract on top of it! That would be highway robbery by Vegas

The contract is worth no where near a 1st. You realize the team only had to actually pay a fraction of it.

 

[Favin]

Bratt-Hughes-Hoffman

Hughes will be paired with Zacha, Zajac or Coleman (or two of the three) until his defensive game proves up. The line above would be great on the rush, but quite poor on backcheck.

Weird that the guy is simultaneously worth a top tier prospect and a 1st round pick and also not worth signing for $4 million.

Good point. Vegas has cap concerns...but hard to ask for much in exchange for a guy you just offered $2 million.

Vegas could help solve a couple problems by moving Eakin, promoting Glass, and signing Gusev for Eakin money ($3.8 million).

 

[jfhabs]

The contract is worth no where near a 1st. You realize the team only had to actually pay a fraction of it.

There are still better option for a team trying to ice a player while getting to the floor. I dont see why a team would take on his contract for much less.

 

[Blackjack]

Good point. Vegas has cap concerns...but hard to ask for much in exchange for a guy you just offered $2 million.

Vegas could help solve a couple problems by moving Eakin, promoting Glass, and signing Gusev for Eakin money ($3.8 million).

Yeah, I think Vegas should just clear the cap space and sign him. Sure, it might cost them a pick and a prospect, but... isn't that what they're asking other teams to give up for Gusev?

 

[Zezel22]

Every defensive pairing on the first list has a big defensive liability on it. PK is average defensively and Gardiner is below average. Smith is a rookie and would be relied on to cover for Severson since he is a defensive liability also. Then Andy is where he should be anchoring a 3rd pairing but butcher isn’t great defensively. We would give up a ton of goals and leave Cory/Blackwood out to dry. If we trade Severson or Butcher for a more well rounded top four guy I’m all for getting Gardiner. However, trading one of our better two-way dmen in Vats (who needs to rebound) and signing Gardiner to me is absolutely something Ray should not do...A hockey team needs guys who fill in all roles, it seems like the devils fanbase just wants to corner the market on offensive puck moving dmen who can’t play actual defense. I don’t get it. The actual need is a mean physical shut down top 4 guy and if he can chip in offense then great, but it’s not the need.

I don't "want" another puck moving defenseman. I was just saying this is a viable option considering Gardiner is free (no assets traded) and devils have the cash to make a high offer on a SHORT term deal, maybe even 1 year, if Gardiner is at the point in his UFA journey where he wants to do that.