Proposal: NJD/NSH

[WTFMAN99]

****READ FIRST****

I'm going to preface this and say that I am pretty much a 3rd party fan, always a soft spot for the Predators and I do think the Devils are going to win a cup in the next 1-3 years.

Don't go for over the top reactions, I think my initial proposal might be slanted too in favor of the Predators but what do you think of it as a base, and what could be added/removed to make it as a fair as possible?

To NSH

Holtz
1st 2024
5th 2024
Vanacek
Lazar

To NJD

Saros
Trenin (50% retained)


Thanks in advance

Click to read more...

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Obviously NJ does this. Guessing the consensus will be Holtz is not a good enough piece going to Nashville.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

I think that first could potentially belong to San Jose but otherwise I think devils would very easily agree to this.

 

[AfroThunder396]

NJ obviously does this, but I don't think that's enough value for Nashville.

 

[WTFMAN99]

3 replies in and I am surprised on the reception. I thought that tt would definitely be an upper end return for a goalie.

Any thoughts on what piece could be added/removed to balance the scales more?

 

[BKarchitect]

If you take out the irrelevant pieces (Lazar and a 5th)…you have Holtz, a 1st and VV for Saros and Trenin retained. VV is a perfectly “fine” goalie but in this case his value to Nashville is merely as a stopgap solution to Askarov - he is not a guy they would actually pursue as having a ton of value to them.

So from a Nashville perspective - they are giving up one of the top 5 goalies in the game in his prime with 2 playoff runs left on a bargain $5 million AAV deal plus a rough and tumble third liner with some skill who would defintiely draw significant standalone interest at the deadline, especially at 50% for Holt and a very late 1st. Self-admittedly, I’m not a huge Holtz fan. I don’t think his game quite translates at the NHL level, though to be fair he’s not being put in the best of situations on a deep Devils team thus far. But I see him more as a nice complimentary top six scorer at his peak if everything pans out and the Predators are flush with these kinds of nice young forwards (Tomasino, Parssinen, Evangelista, Kemell, etc).

That’s simply not nearly enough of a draw or centerpiece package for Nashville. Saros actually has the ideal tradeable goalie contract - two runs at a terrific AAV in his prime with no huge commitment. That’s worth a lot.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I think it's a good proposal, predicated on Nashville being way out of it and deciding they want to auction off Saros to the highest bidder. I don't think another team would offer much more, although I'd probably remove Trenin and any retention from the deal and include a better pick than a 5th rounder from NJ.

However if Nashville never gets to that point it never happens.

 

[Scoresberg]

Otherwise I could be on board but I'm not that high on Holtz being the main piece. We have a bunch of guys like Holtz already in Evangelista, Tomasino, Kemell so he doesn't really fit a need.

Counter-offer:

Glass + Saros + Trenin for Mercer

 

[WTFMAN99]

If you take out the irrelevant pieces (Lazar and a 5th)…you have Holtz, a 1st and VV for Saros and Trenin retained. VV is a perfectly “fine” goalie but in this case his value to Nashville is merely as a stopgap solution to Askarov - he is not a guy they would actually pursue as having a ton of value to them.

So from a Nashville perspective - they are giving up one of the top 5 goalies in the game in his prime with 2 playoff runs left on a bargain $5 million AAV deal plus a rough and tumble third liner with some skill who would defintiely draw significant standalone interest at the deadline, especially at 50% for Holt and a very late 1st. Self-admittedly, I’m not a huge Holtz fan. I don’t think his game quite translates at the NHL level, though to be fair he’s not being put in the best of situations on a deep Devils team thus far. But I see him more as a nice complimentary top six scorer at his peak if everything pans out and the Predators are flush with these kinds of nice young forwards (Tomasino, Parssinen, Evangelista, Kemell, etc).

That’s simply not nearly enough of a draw or centerpiece package for Nashville. Saros actually has the ideal tradeable goalie contract - two runs at a terrific AAV in his prime with no huge commitment. That’s worth a lot.

Yea - I know Vanacek isn't inherently valuable to Nashville BUT he does shield Askarov and buy him time rather than needing to throw him into the fire qucikly.

I can also understand if the concern is the upside isn't quite there for Holtz, you maybe want more of a sure thing.

Otherwise I could be on board but I'm not that high on Holtz being the main piece. We have a bunch of guys like Holtz already in Evangelista, Tomasino, Kemell so he doesn't really fit a need.

Counter-offer:

Glass + Saros + Trenin for Mercer

I'm a 3rd party fan but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable counter - I know NJD LOVES Mercer and I think he was a stumbling block in that Meier acquisition but NJD could realistically promote Holtz up a line or something. Haula could shift to LW for Glass.

Meier-Hughes-Toffoli
Palat-Hischier-Bratt
Haula-Glass-Holtz (not promoted after all)
Trenin-McLeod-Bastian

That is a nasty group of forwards, that 4th line in particular screams playoff hockey.

 

[MakoSlade]

3 replies in and I am surprised on the reception. I thought that tt would definitely be an upper end return for a goalie.

Any thoughts on what piece could be added/removed to balance the scales more?

Maybe take out Lazar and add a prospect Nashville likes that the Devils could afford to lose. One of Casey / Gritsyuk / Hameenaho / Vilen, and adjust picks either way as needed.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Mercer didn't get moved for Meier, he's not getting moved for a goalie.

Something like:

NJ 1st '25
NJ 2nd '24 (conditional, if SJ gets this pick due to conditions of the Meier trade then it becomes a 2nd '25 instead)
Seamus Casey
Vitek Vanecek

for

Juuse Saros
Glass/Tomasino/Carrier/any acceptable forward depth piece
Like a future 4th or something, I don't know

 

[BKarchitect]

Yea - I know Vanacek isn't inherently valuable to Nashville BUT he does shield Askarov and buy him time rather than needing to throw him into the fire qucikly.

I can also understand if the concern is the upside isn't quite there for Holtz, you maybe want more of a sure thing.


I'm a 3rd party fan but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable counter - I know NJD LOVES Mercer and I think he was a stumbling block in that Meier acquisition but NJD could realistically promote Holtz up a line or something. Haula could shift to LW for Glass.

Meier-Hughes-Toffoli
Palat-Hischier-Bratt
Haula-Glass-Holtz (not promoted after all)
Trenin-McLeod-Bastian

That is a nasty group of forwards, that 4th line in particular screams playoff hockey.

Sure, that’s fair, I don’t mean to say VV wouldn’t be a solid tandem solution or is valueless - I just think he’s a sidebar conversation.

I’m also third party and I think Mercer is a non-starter for New Jersey even with a somewhat slow start this year. He just screams winning clutch crunch time player to me. I would not entertain trading him for a goalie.

What’s in between a Holtz (a young winger which the Preds have a ton of) and a Mercer (a versatile building block piece for the Devils who already a 27 goal scorer at age 21?).

 

[MasterofGrond]

I’d add. Lenni or vilen at least. Maybe more.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Advance warning, you won't get any consensus answer from Nashville fans, We have a bit of a split at the moment between HF-typical fans who support the idea of a tank-style rebuild and want to trade Saros as part of that, and then others who believe in a more immediate return to competitiveness and would ask for the moon (probably the sun and stars also) for Saros.

Being in the latter camp, there is no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks I would take the OP return for Saros. I don't give a rat's ass about "historical returns" for goalies. Saros is the best player on our team, he's the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs, and no quantity assortment of decent pieces would get him from me. The only way I would trade him would be for a bona fide franchise-level #1 center. And you aren't trading us that. Nobody is. Which is just fine with me, take it as "Saros is simply not available".

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Mercer didn't get moved for Meier, he's not getting moved for a goalie.

Something like:

NJ 1st '25
NJ 2nd '24 (conditional, if SJ gets this pick due to conditions of the Meier trade then it becomes a 2nd '25 instead)
Seamus Casey
Vitek Vanecek

for

Juuse Saros
Glass/Tomasino/Carrier/any acceptable forward depth piece
Like a future 4th or something, I don't know

You guys need to settle down. This kind of stuff just isn't even close for Saros alone, stop trying to get additional pieces also. There's no way we would even consider Mercer for Saros, so just let it go.

 

[BonMorrison]

As someone said about we already have a dude or two like Holtz in the system, I think it would start with Mercer which I know Devils fans would hate but he fits our needs much more as top line centre depth is our biggest need.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Advance warning, you won't get any consensus answer from Nashville fans, We have a bit of a split at the moment between HF-typical fans who support the idea of a tank-style rebuild and want to trade Saros as part of that, and then others who believe in a more immediate return to competitiveness and would ask for the moon (probably the sun and stars also) for Saros.

Being in the latter camp, there is no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks I would take the OP return for Saros. I don't give a rat's ass about "historical returns" for goalies. Saros is the best player on our team, he's the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs, and no quantity assortment of decent pieces would get him from me. The only way I would trade him would be for a bona fide franchise-level #1 center. And you aren't trading us that. Nobody is. Which is just fine with me, take it as "Saros is simply not available".

Hey as long as you can articulate your thoughts / stance in a clear and polite way, I have all the time in the world.

I tried to come at it with an overpayment type approach because I don't think Trotz loves the idea of trading Saros. He tried to trade Askarov actually but if you give enough of an overpayment, you can force a team to say yes.

Similar to the Devils actually with Blake Coleman, the price they extracted from Tampa basically made them pull the trigger. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job though and failed to make it appealing for Nashville.

 

[Soundgarden]

If we're dealing Saros I want Nemec coming back. Holtz is ok, but hasn't proven much in the NHL, any 1st is going to be late, Vanacek and Lazar are throw aways. Either we get a big piece or Saros likely retires in Nashville.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Hey as long as you can articulate your thoughts / stance in a clear and polite way, I have all the time in the world.

I tried to come at it with an overpayment type approach because I don't think Trotz loves the idea of trading Saros. He tried to trade Askarov actually but if you give enough of an overpayment, you can force a team to say yes.

Similar to the Devils actually with Blake Coleman, the price they extracted from Tampa basically made them pull the trigger. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job though and failed to make it appealing for Nashville.

I wouldn't say it as "Trotz tried to trade Askarov". It is more appropriately phrased as "Trotz tried to trade for a superstar level #1 center". And he felt like Askarov was his highest value asset to potentially secure that targeted player, as he hoped he might move into the top-5 of last years draft and pick one.

But that was highly situational. Again, if you can find a way to give us a top #1 superstar center, or a solid shot at one, I think you can interest Trotz. But you can't do it, and why would you? Your late 1st, or another decent winger like Holtz, there is basically no number of those kinds of assets stacked together that get us what we'd need. I don't believe Mercer is a player of that level either. You have 1 player like that on your team, and obviously you're not offering him, of course. In which case, it's easier to just take it as "Saros is not available". Because the ask here is just too far out of reach for ANY team, not just yours.

 

[TGWL]

3 replies in and I am surprised on the reception. I thought that tt would definitely be an upper end return for a goalie.

Any thoughts on what piece could be added/removed to balance the scales more?

It's not a UFA. I don't think this is much of an upper end return at all.

Trenin is actually a nice piece coming back in my opinion and probably can be taken out from Nashville.
Holtz hasn't set the world on fire.
The first isn't expected to be that high, regardless of which 1st gets sent to Nash or Sharks.

If we're dealing Saros I want Nemec coming back. Holtz is ok, but hasn't proven much in the NHL, any 1st is going to be late, Vanacek and Lazar are throw aways. Either we get a big piece or Saros likely retires in Nashville.

Good luck with that one, buddy.

 

[Soundgarden]

It's not a UFA. I don't think this is much of an upper end return at all.

Trenin is actually a nice piece coming back in my opinion and probably can be taken out from Nashville.
Holtz hasn't set the world on fire.
The first isn't expected to be that high, regardless of which 1st gets sent to Nash or Sharks.


Good luck with that one, buddy.

We're not looking to move him, his price is high, an elite prospect. We can/already have gotten low firsts and good prospects/young players without dealing a Vezina caliber goalie in his prime.

Again, Nashville is more than ok with keeping Saros and having him retire here.

 

[Scoresberg]

I wouldn't say it as "Trotz tried to trade Askarov". It is more appropriately phrased as "Trotz tried to trade for a superstar level #1 center". And he felt like Askarov was his highest value asset to potentially secure that targeted player, as he hoped he might move into the top-5 of last years draft and pick one.

But that was highly situational. Again, if you can find a way to give us a top #1 superstar center, or a solid shot at one, I think you can interest Trotz. But you can't do it, and why would you? Your late 1st, or another decent winger like Holtz, there is basically no number of those kinds of assets stacked together that get us what we'd need. I don't believe Mercer is a player of that level either. You have 1 player like that on your team, and obviously you're not offering him, of course. In which case, it's easier to just take it as "Saros is not available". Because the ask here is just too far out of reach for ANY team, not just yours.

Look, Porter, I wouldn't trade Saros either for that package OP presented. BUT, Mercer IS that level of player, very Brayden Point-like player and career arch so far. Just can't find that top-six center spot in NJ with Hughes and Hischier already there.

These are the type of players, I would absolutely pull the trigger for. Not for the holtzes of the world.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Devils would obviously do that. I can't imagine Nashville would.

I would consider:


Holtz
Vanacek
2024 1st
2025 1st


Saros

I'd even consider moving Casey. But there's really no need to panic, it's been 4 games.

 

[TGWL]

We're not looking to move him, his price is high, an elite prospect. We can/already have gotten low firsts and good prospects/young players without dealing a Vezina caliber goalie in his prime.

Again, Nashville is more than ok with keeping Saros and having him retire here.

It doesn't matter if you're ok with him keeping him or looking to move him. That's simply not happening. A better package would need to be offered for sure. I'm not saying the price is low.

 

[Soundgarden]

Devils would obviously do that. I can't imagine Nashville would.

I would consider:


Holtz
Vanacek
2024 1st
2025 1st


Saros

I'd even consider moving Casey. But there's really no need to panic, it's been 4 games.

We really don't need draft picks, from 2020 to 2025 we'll have 9. If we're dealing Saros it's to fill a need.