Nikita Zadorov Discussion Part III

[The Merchant]

Z is just such an incredibly rare breed. It's unfortunate seeing so many taking him for granted

 

[The Kingslayer]

That much is true, I guess we will see how he responds. It's interesting to read that Bednar didn't speak at all to Z following the benching or before he was healthy scratched.

I dont like that. Jared should talk to Z. At the same time Z needs to play for his teammates when he gets back in and not worry about his coach.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't think he's this irreplaceable franchise icon, but I don't think he's just some above-average plug either. For a club that's struggled mightily to develop viable defenders of any type I think trading him would ultimately be a mistake. If they do end up dealing him I hope to hell it's for a good return.

 

[Pokecheque]

I dont like that. Jared should talk to Z. At the same time Z needs to play for his teammates when he gets back in and not worry about his coach.

I'm not a fan of it either but he says it's because he wants to give said player a little time before speaking to them. So it's not like Alain Vigneault where there's no explanation given whatsoever but it's certainly not straightforward either. I suppose I can see both sides, you probably don't want to talk to them when they're steamed and won't be in an ideal mode for listening.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont like that. Jared should talk to Z. At the same time Z needs to play for his teammates when he gets back in and not worry about his coach.

He does it with every player that's scratched, not just Z. Gives them a chance to kind of deal with it and think about it for themselves first before he explains his side of why and what he wants more from them.


I think it's the perfect approach to take.

 

[Foppberg]

It's hard to really evaluate how JB is handling Zadorov. For pretty much everybody on the team they've taken strides under his coaching, including Z himself. The benching is frustrating, but let's hope it lights a spark under him like last time.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's hard to really evaluate how JB is handling Zadorov. For pretty much everybody on the team they've taken strides under his coaching, including Z himself. The benching is frustrating, but let's hope it lights a spark under him like last time.

This is the thing. People can complain about the way Bednar has operated but the results are speaking for themselves. Everyone on the team essentially have become better players since Bednar took over. Mack, and Rants are legit superstars. Girard has emerged as a young stud, a 20 year old Top pairing Defender. Soderberg's 2-way game has evolved a ridiculous amount while the offense continues to work despite the usage he's getting.


And even Zadorov himself despite getting the tough love treatment that others aren't necessarily getting. He's no doubt a better player now then he was 2 years ago. His issue is with consistently being that better player and that's what Bednar is trying to get out of him.

 

[Foppa2118]

He didn't talk to him on the off day before he scratched him either? Even with all the trade rumors flying around. No wonder he feels disrespected. Fortunately the last two players Bednar made feel disrespected were on their last legs in McLeod and Iginla.

Zadorov is a very important part of the Avs blueline future though after a decade of crap. Can we quit playing games here? There's 30 teams salivating at the idea of the Avs screwing up their relationship with a big mobile punishing defenseman like Z.

 

[Foppberg]

This is the thing. People can complain about the way Bednar has operated but the results are speaking for themselves. Everyone on the team essentially have become better players since Bednar took over. Mack, and Rants are legit superstars. Girard has emerged as a young stud, a 20 year old Top pairing Defender. Soderberg's 2-way game has evolved a ridiculous amount while the offense continues to work despite the usage he's getting.


And even Zadorov himself despite getting the tough love treatment that others aren't necessarily getting. He's no doubt a better player now then he was 2 years ago. His issue is with consistently being that better player and that's what Bednar is trying to get out of him.

Yup. Basically the way I see it is Zadorov is a very prideful guy who's confident in himself, and the best way to get better is to play. Whereas for Bednar he's trying to filter out the bad habits of Z, and the best way to get through to him is to give a bit of tough love. Like a father who disciplines his son, and at the time the son is pissed but then a few years later he appreciates what he did.

He didn't talk to him on the off day before he scratched him either? Even with all the trade rumors flying around. No wonder he feels disrespected. Fortunately the last two players Bednar made feel disrespected were on their last legs in McLeod and Iginla.

Zadorov is a very important part of the Avs blueline future though after a decade of crap. Can we quit playing games here? There's 30 teams salivating at the idea of the Avs screwing up their relationship with a big mobile punishing defenseman like Z.

To be fair he does it with everyone, he doesn't talk to the player until a few days later and gets back to them.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yup. Basically the way I see it is Zadorov is a very prideful guy who's confident in himself, and the best way to get better is to play. Whereas for Bednar he's trying to filter out the bad habits of Z, and the best way to get through to him is to give a bit of tough love. Like a father who disciplines his son, and at the time the son is pissed but then a few years later he appreciates what he did.

That approach only works for so long though. When you give such a shorter leash to a player than anyone else on the team, you run the risk of making them feel like they can't do anything right. Then their game really starts to fall apart. It's happened countless times over the years.

Hopefully we're still at the point where Z can use this to motivate himself, rather than be confused over what he needs to do to get out of the dog house. Talking usually helps, which is why I don't see the point of Bednar not speaking to him. He's playing a risky game here and I'm not sure it's needed.

To be fair he does it with everyone, he doesn't talk to the player until a few days later and gets back to them.

That may work for 4th line scrubs or journeymen who are used to getting scratched. Not sure it works for prideful NHLers. He also doesn't treat anyone else like Z. Except maybe Greer. So it's gonna have a harsher effect.

 

[Foppberg]

That approach only works for so long though. When you give such a shorter leash to a player than anyone else on the team, you run the risk of making them feel like they can't do anything right. Then their game really starts to fall apart. It's happened countless times over the years.

Hopefully we're still at the point where Z can use this to motivate himself, rather than be confused over what he needs to do to get out of the dog house. Talking usually helps, which is why I don't see the point of Bednar not speaking to him. He's playing a risky game here and I'm not sure it's needed.

Well he's not ghosting him, I'm assuming they've talked by now. But I agree that it's not a long term thing that he should try very often at all. Like you I question if this is the best approach with Z, but it is what is so all I can do is hope that it'll light a spark under him and hopefully see what it is that Bednar is trying to correct and actively try to get better at the issue.

It is weird how hard he is on Z though, maybe because he knows how dominate he can be so it's more frustrating for him and the staff. One game he's shutting down the best player in the world, the next he's benched. I can see how Zadorov would be like what the f*** why am I balancing on this Jared tight rope.

 

[klozge]

Zadorov hasn't been as good as he was during last season. He has regressed a little bit. Nemeth and Barberio have peaked or are at close to their peaks whereas Zadorov still has much more potential to realize. That's why those guys should be treated differently. Big Z has been quite soft this season and hasn't laid lot of big licks (thanks Moser).

Yeah, because it's not the time for this kind of hockey yet. Especially but not only with the refs calling the game the way they have been this season.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I like Jared Bednar a lot, but I think his approach of not talking to his players for several days after benching or scratching is one of the dumbest coaching tactics I’ve ever heard of.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched without reason I’m going to spend the night eating nachos with my mind racing. I’m going to be pissed and I’m not going to be focused on the game at all.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched because of a specific part of my game I’ll be spending the game zoned in. Taking mental
notes of specific plays out there and using my birds eye view to better myself for the next time I’m in those situations.

Makes a lot more sense to explain to a young player what he’s doing wrong rather than letting it destroy his head for a few days. Anxiety is real. Don’t make it worse with an idiotic approach to coaching.

 

[hooverdam]

The not talking to your players thing is something former players keep bringing up about Edmonton. There was an article speculating it’s what’s happening to Poolparty. At least Zadorov speaks English well and is close knit with most of the team, but I can’t imagine how bad that lack of communication feels when there’s already a language barrier and it seems like the coach isn’t trying to reach you.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I like Jared Bednar a lot, but I think his approach of not talking to his players for several days after benching or scratching is one of the dumbest coaching tactics I’ve ever heard of.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched without reason I’m going to spend the night eating nachos with my mind racing. I’m going to be pissed and I’m not going to be focused on the game at all.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched because of a specific part of my game I’ll be spending the game zoned in. Taking mental
notes of specific plays out there and using my birds eye view to better myself for the next time I’m in those situations.

Makes a lot more sense to explain to a young player what he’s doing wrong rather than letting it destroy his head for a few days. Anxiety is real. Don’t make it worse with an idiotic approach to coaching.

Waiting to talk to them is not a bad idea because the player probably needs a bit of time to cool off. Trying to talk to an angry person can make things a lot worst very often. However the talk should happen relatively early after the benching/scratching to give the player time to understand and work on what is needed to correct the problem. So I agree with you up to a point.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well let's be clear, he's not just flat-out not talking to them at all, he's just not talking to them for a couple days afterward. We can argue if that approach is effective or not (I'm not a huge fan of it) but it's not like he's not communicating at all.

 

[Bender]

I like Jared Bednar a lot, but I think his approach of not talking to his players for several days after benching or scratching is one of the dumbest coaching tactics I’ve ever heard of.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched without reason I’m going to spend the night eating nachos with my mind racing. I’m going to be pissed and I’m not going to be focused on the game at all.

If I’m a hockey player and I’m scratched because of a specific part of my game I’ll be spending the game zoned in. Taking mental
notes of specific plays out there and using my birds eye view to better myself for the next time I’m in those situations.

Makes a lot more sense to explain to a young player what he’s doing wrong rather than letting it destroy his head for a few days. Anxiety is real. Don’t make it worse with an idiotic approach to coaching.

I understand what you mean but from Jared Bednar's point of view and in this case in particular I'm sure Jared's like "he knows why" and as much as I've defended Zadorov, darn straight he should know why he's being scratched.

I still don't think we should trade him. There are many, many, many examples of why you don't trade a d-man that's been able to play at a high level like Z has at times, in the past.

I remember posting a message a long time ago (had to be about 2012) when there was so much uncertainty with O'Reilly...I suggested that we trade him for Victor Hedman. There was a lot of rumblings that Tampa was unhappy with his progression and there was actually a poster on here (RobinIF) who disagreed with me, saying that would have been a bad idea, the way Hedman was trending.

So we all know how that worked out but that's not to say that Zadorov is necessarily going to become as important to a franchise as Hedman is to TB but more that there are ups and downs with young players and what's important is knowing what kind of player you have on your hands.

So if anyone is thinking it's a good idea to trade Zadorov right now, I'd advise you to read PAGE 1 of this very thread to give you a little reminder of how well he was able to play last year.

 

[Mac2Rants]

They need to let the lease off for awhile and let him do his thing like they did with EJ Imo.

 

[henchman21]

I think it is very easy to say Z has talent and point to 5-10 even 15 game stretches of great play to show how awesome he can be. The sobering reality there is he has valleys that are very low. Consistency has always been Z's biggest issue (IMO it boils down to IQ and engagement), and remains his biggest issue at the age of 23 with 241 NHL games and 52 AHL games under his belt. I'm not saying the final evaluation moment is right now, but the combination of his age, experience, contract, and arbitration means the horizon is approaching. Z's issues have to start getting ironed out soon, or a decision will be made.

 

[AvsMakar08]

I think it is very easy to say Z has talent and point to 5-10 even 15 game stretches of great play to show how awesome he can be. The sobering reality there is he has valleys that are very low. Consistency has always been Z's biggest issue (IMO it boils down to IQ and engagement), and remains his biggest issue at the age of 23 with 241 NHL games and 52 AHL games under his belt. I'm not saying the final evaluation moment is right now, but the combination of his age, experience, contract, and arbitration means the horizon is approaching. Z's issues have to start getting ironed out soon, or a decision will be made.

I am hoping that Zadorov is a late bloomer and still can become that top 4 Dman for us in the next few years. Towards the end of last season and in the playoffs, Zadorov did show that he can flip that switch and be a top 4Dman. Chara was also a late bloomer and only started to play decent hockey when he was like 26.

I like Z because he can be that "don't mess with my guys or my team" type of a guy that other teams will think twice before attempting to make a dirty play. We don't have any other guys to step up for our team except for our Captain. Last season Z made a few clean hits that changed the game momentum.

I agree with you that Z can be more more consistent. His IQ is not below average, but we had some bad luck with some calls going against us late in games and other Dman like Barbs, Nemeth and even Johnon have not been as good as they were last season. Since dman can be more late bloomers, I will give Z at least 1 or 2 years before giving up on him. He is very likable in the locker room.

 

[henchman21]

Z’s hockey IQ is average at best. I’m not trying to rip the kid, but the moments of not moving his feet, bad positioning, very poorly timed penalties are all symptomatic of lower hockey IQ. Z is very physically talented and plays a desirable physical game with a very likable personality... he is a classic all tools, no toolbox player though. Sometimes the talent wins out and with experience they become solid defensemen (EJ is an example), but let’s not cover up an obvious flaw in his game.

 

[5280]

Z’s hockey IQ is average at best. I’m not trying to rip the kid, but the moments of not moving his feet, bad positioning, very poorly timed penalties are all symptomatic of lower hockey IQ. Z is very physically talented and plays a desirable physical game with a very likable personality... he is a classic all tools, no toolbox player though. Sometimes the talent wins out and with experience they become solid defensemen (EJ is an example), but let’s not cover up an obvious flaw in his game.

I'm not sure I agree with you here. I agree he has the traits you are pointing to- the inconsistency, not moving his feet, the bad penalties and that they are all mental issues. I'm just not sure that is from being immature (at least in a hockey sense) instead of having bad hockey IQ. I'd argue that he has a toolbox, it just hasn't developed yet. He's still pretty young for a defender even though he has played a lot of games. My glass is still half full on the guy.

On another note, Bednar's approach doesn't seem to have helped. He looked more lost this game than before. I wonder that the next move isn't to just play him and let him work the kinks out on the ice, but it will be interesting to see if he plays against Phoenix at all. It was nice to see him get that goal for his confidence going forward.

 

[Ceremony]

Based on last night Zadorov is quite clearly at his best when he does whatever he wants, so this is the approach that should be adopted going forward.

 

[Ivan13]

Based on last night Zadorov is quite clearly at his best when he does whatever he wants, so this is the approach that should be adopted going forward.

I would say he is best when the reigns are taken off, but given the makeup of the team, he can't be put in a role like that, unless he plays 3rd pairing this season away from Ty and Girard.

 

[Foppberg]

I would say he is best when the reigns are taken off, but given the makeup of the team, he can't be put in a role like that, unless he plays 3rd pairing this season away from Ty and Girard.

Yup. He's looked his best when EJ or Barrie went down and was given a much larger role. The thing with him is he's so unpredictable right now, so in a rebuilding season it'd be okay to roll the dice and give him a big role, but now priority is winning so I get Bednar not wanting to play him as often when you have guys like EJ/Barrie/Cole/Girard in the top 4.

Even if EJ hasn't been great, he hasn't been the up and down player Z has been.