Nikita Zadorov Discussion Part II

[AllAboutAvs]

I have no concerns, but I think this idea that they have an agreement but are just waiting to finalize it until some point in the future is a little naive, IMO.

They may have agreed on the broad parameters of a deal, but the devil is often in the details. It will get done, but with no particular deadlines now (KHL threat disappearing if it ever really existed), I could see it dragging out until camp. We'll see.

But that's the think though. It was reported by different sources that the two year deal is accepted by both sides. That's done with. it is not official yet but it is completed. They are now working on a separate deal, a longer deal. Two different things. They are not trying to turn the shorter deal into a long one.

 

[Metallo]

I don't see a problem with this. If in your negotiations you are close on one deal and far apart on the other and the other camp is threatening to leave to the KHL then why not secure the deal that is close then try to make the deal that everybody seem to want (the long one in this case) work. i think it was great thinking from the Avs. They now have security.

Why do they have to make two deals in beyond me. Who works like that? Do the deal you want to have, i.e.the long term deal. Make it happen. And don't waste time on a compromise.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Why do they have to make two deals in beyond me. Who works like that? Do the deal you want to have, i.e.the long term deal. Make it happen. And don't waste time on a compromise.

Usually I would agree with you but with the KHL threat present then I can see that they wanted to protect themselves with the shorter one if they felt it was easily attained. It gives them more time to work out the bugs in the long one without worrying about any deadline/threat from the other camp.

 

[Metallo]

If the "two deal theory" is true I wonder who as the power to validate the "short term deal" if the "long term deal" negociation go south? The Avs, Zadorov or both parties?

If the Avs can't send the "short term deal" to the NHL office then the KHL threat is still on.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Saw this elsewhere but wouldn't be surprised if they're waiting for Butcher to walk for them to announce it. Just PR crap.

I think it's completely reasonable to think they've got a two year deal done but are exploring other options. A long term deal is tougher to nail down for both parties, and if they can't do it, they'll always have a two year deal to fall back on. I doubt a long term deal comes together.

If the "two deal theory" is true I wonder who as the power to validate the "short term deal" if the "long term deal" negociation go south? The Avs, Zadorov or both parties?

If the Avs can't send the "short term deal" to the NHL office then the KHL threat is still on.

KHL teams are pretty deep into camp and preseason. I think even his KHL team would have wanted him there if he was going to be there by now. I think the threat is gone. Z is still in Miami, it's not like he's back in Russia training anywhere.

 

[Metallo]

Usually I would agree with you but with the KHL threat present then I can see that they wanted to protect themselves with the shorter one if they felt it was easily attained. It gives them more time to work out the bugs in the long one without worrying about any deadline/threat from the other camp.

Why would Zadorov camp allow themselves to lose leaverage? Unless that short term deal is "very sweet" in their eyes. See also my previous post.

 

[cgf]

KHL teams are pretty deep into camp and preseason. I think even his KHL team would have wanted him there if he was going to be there by now. I think the threat is gone. Z is still in Miami, it's not like he's back in Russia training anywhere.

Yep. That it's gone on so long shows that the KHL threat isn't real. He's not jumping right into that team this late into their preseason preparation.

 

[Metallo]

Saw this elsewhere but wouldn't be surprised if they're waiting for Butcher to walk for them to announce it. Just PR crap.

I think it's completely reasonable to think they've got a two year deal done but are exploring other options. A long term deal is tougher to nail down for both parties, and if they can't do it, they'll always have a two year deal to fall back on. I doubt a long term deal comes together.


KHL teams are pretty deep into camp and preseason. I think even his KHL team would have wanted him there if he was going to be there by now. I think the threat is gone. Z is still in Miami, it's not like he's back in Russia training anywhere.

I agree that a long term deal is a dream the way they did things.

Good point on the timing of KHL season. So, why do the short term deal then if it's not "KHL insurrance", unless the short deal has been done for ages.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Why would Zadorov camp allow themselves to lose leaverage? Unless that short term deal is "very sweet" in their eyes. See also my previous post.

If they are happy with the short one then why the leverage. They just need to agree on the long one. If they don't then Z go with the short one and then gain leverage again on the next contract negotiations.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Saw this elsewhere but wouldn't be surprised if they're waiting for Butcher to walk for them to announce it. Just PR crap.

I think it's completely reasonable to think they've got a two year deal done but are exploring other options. A long term deal is tougher to nail down for both parties, and if they can't do it, they'll always have a two year deal to fall back on. I doubt a long term deal comes together.


KHL teams are pretty deep into camp and preseason. I think even his KHL team would have wanted him there if he was going to be there by now. I think the threat is gone. Z is still in Miami, it's not like he's back in Russia training anywhere.

Basically all of this.

I'm not sure I buy the still working on a long term deal, at least at this point. But I absolutely believe the Avs are holding the announcement until it's advantageous to them. They never do signings and announcements as anything with urgency most of the time anyway.

 

[Metallo]

At any rate, I'm not sure that the simpletons covering the Avs could get the details of that negotiation right, but it's fun to speculate.

 

[Metallo]

Basically all of this.

I'm not sure I buy the still working on a long term deal, at least at this point. But I absolutely believe the Avs are holding the announcement until it's advantageous to them. They never do signings and announcements as anything with urgency most of the time anyway.

Good point on the weird Avs PR.

 

[Metallo]

If they are happy with the short one then why the leverage. They just need to agree on the long one. If they don't then Z go with the short one and then gain leverage again on the next contract negotiations.

That's my point. For the Zadorov camp to agree to a short deal that provides "KHL insurrance" to the Avs they must be very happy with it. Zadorov being very happy with the short term deal makes a long deal harder to reach because you have to beat the short deal. Hence, if the reporting is true, I don't expect a long term deal, or it's going to be pretty pricey.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Basically all of this.

I'm not sure I buy the still working on a long term deal, at least at this point. But I absolutely believe the Avs are holding the announcement until it's advantageous to them. They never do signings and announcements as anything with urgency most of the time anyway.

No offense TV but for at least the last 6 months it seems you just can't take a source's positive report/rumor at face value but you have no problem doing so when the report is negative. I understand that it could be easy to do with the way the Avs have gone the last few years but why always add a negative tone to it. It's always something like "oh it's the Avs so it can't be true", "I'll believe it when I see it/it's official". etc.

When it is a negative report (still not official) then it's "Another proof of their incompetence". Never any mention of waiting for official word. It's not only you. many others do it to. That's why I get frustrated sometimes with the Sakic/FO haters around here. They never get the benefit of the doubt when it is a negative rumor/report. They get slammed right away.

 

[tigervixxxen]

They absolutely don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'd hardly call it negative to believe he is signed, not going to the KHL and I've believed that was going to happen this whole time too, go back and read the thread. It's a negative to find a reason for delaying the announcement that might be a PR advantage? Well buckle up because it's not going to get any better.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

They absolutely don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'd hardly call it negative to believe he is signed, not going to the KHL and I've believed that was going to happen this whole time too, go back and read the thread. It's a negative to find a reason for delaying the announcement that might be a PR advantage? Well buckle up because it's not going to get any better.

The Avs have always delayed their announcement most of the time for no reason at all.

I am buckled up. Many more conspiracy theories to come up in the future I'm sure. I have said before that Sakic/FO can't win on anything right now and even if they take great forward steps.it will probably be the same for the next 2-3 years if they remain at the helm. Example: they could make the playoffs this year and some will complain that they didn't get a high pick. Or we'll hear things like "Great year but I'll believe they have turn the corner when..". Believe me I'm perfectly buckled up.

 

[McMetal]

It's also a possibility that the "KHL threat" was never real at all. It doesn't have to be a sweetheart short deal if he never wanted to leave in the first place.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I believe that the whole 'threat' of Zads bolting to the KHL was probably more of a language barrier than anything else. It was brought up in the interview very casually and answered even more casually. Everything in that interview just oozed 'I want to play for the avs', so for me there was never much of a real concern. But since we have little else to heart bleed over I understand the overreactions around these parts

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The Avs have always delayed their announcement most of the time for no reason at all.

I am buckled up. Many more conspiracy theories to come up in the future I'm sure. I have said before that Sakic/FO can't win on anything right now and even if they take great forward steps.it will probably be the same for the next 2-3 years if they remain at the helm. Example: they could make the playoffs this year and some will complain that they didn't get a high pick. Or we'll hear things like "Great year but I'll believe they have turn the corner when..". Believe me I'm perfectly buckled up.

How are those examples of conspiracy theories?

And there isn't a person on here who hasn't given Sakic credit when it's due.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I understand the desire for not everything to be 100% negative all the time. But there shouldnt be credit due. Not now. There is no credit for doing things that merely keep the team operational as a NHL franchise that 30 other teams manage to do. Is every single thing Sakic does horrible, of course not. But getting things right 59% of the time is still considered failure. They lost all the benefit of the doubt now and it's going to take a lot more than one year to build trust back up. It's going to take progress and that's shown over a length of time.

 

[Pokecheque]

I understand the desire for not everything to be 100% negative all the time. But there shouldnt be credit due. Not now. There is no credit for doing things that merely keep the team operational as a NHL franchise that 30 other teams manage to do. Is every single thing Sakic does horrible, of course not. But getting things right 59% of the time is still considered failure. They lost all the benefit of the doubt now and it's going to take a lot more than one year to build trust back up. It's going to take progress and that's shown over a length of time.

Exactly.

The message sent by the organization after the worst performance by an NHL team since the expansion Thrashers BEFORE the cap was even put in place was mostly "We are still on course" and "Everything we're doing is fine."

********.

Sakic is reminding me more and more of Pierre Lacroix's worst traits without any of the benefits. Lacroix I suppose earned the right to be ridiculously insular and run the team with a mafioso level of secrecy. Sakic has not. In fact one of the best things Roy did during his brief stint was promise and deliver on more transparency. That has since disappeared since Quoteless Joe is the head man in charge.

This organization needed to be upended and shaken to its core after what happened last season. I'm not saying just fire guys for the sake of firing them but this culture IMO is still very much broken. I think they will learn this lesson like they have so many others--far, far too late.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I understand the desire for not everything to be 100% negative all the time. But there shouldnt be credit due. Not now. There is no credit for doing things that merely keep the team operational as a NHL franchise that 30 other teams manage to do. Is every single thing Sakic does horrible, of course not. But getting things right 59% of the time is still considered failure. They lost all the benefit of the doubt now and it's going to take a lot more than one year to build trust back up. It's going to take progress and that's shown over a length of time.

And I understand the desire to not give them the benefit of the doubt. Heck even I have problem doing it but in many cases (not just you) it goes a little overboard. The reason I can be taken as a Sakic apologist is because I see improvement in him as a GM. Since he has been alone at the helm (without Roy) he has shown me that he is learning from their past mistakes so I am a bit more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on some things (but not all yet). When I say "since he has been alone" in no way am I putting all the blame on Roy. They were together in this and they made the mistakes together and at the end he was the GM so he was the one making the last call. But he seems to be learning. I feel like the whole Duchene situation is overshadowing all the good things he has done. Even the ones that turned out bad were initially cheered by most people here. Don't get me wrong I don't mind the criticism because the organization we cheer for should hear the way we feel. It is the constant negativity that is hard to take especially the back-handed compliments

@StayAtHomeAv: Credit is sometimes given to them but it is also often coming with a negative comment attached to it like "why should I praise him for something that he should be doing in the first place?" If he is learning from his mistake he should at least get credit for that without negative tone attached to it.

Anyway I'm just gonna have to keep skimming over some of the content in here for the couple of years at least I think.

 

[McMetal]

People just don't like nuance in their lives. Everything needs to be black or white, up or down, good or bad. It's not just a problem with hockey either, it's everywhere in the world.

 

[Metallo]

I just don't see why we should give them credit now. If they put this franchise afloat again, sure. For now they haven't done anything worthy of praise.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Best prospect pool the teams ever had by a wide margin... Guess that's nothing though

:kermitthefrogemoji