Player Discussion: Nikita Kucherov - Part 2

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

So 3 Cups in a row is a dynasty not 4 ?

Echoing what @DFC said. In this era, 30+ teams and a salary cap, if your bar for a dynasty is Islanders/Oilers in the '80s, then you'll never see another dynasty in the NHL. Virtually impossible to win four in five years no matter how good your team is. Just compare our roster this year to the 2018-'21 rosters and you'll see how the cap has hollowed out our forward depth. Cap attrition at work.

It's funny how things sometimes work out. I'll always believe the 2019 team was the best team, top-to-bottom, the Lightning have ever had. But they didn't win the Cup, did they?

 

[DMB06]

I'd accept three Cup wins in four years as a dynasty, but not the three in five that Chicago had. To me going back to back is required for a dynasty and Chicago never did that.

Also, if we do manage to get a Cup win this year or next, I'd consider it one of the more impressive dynasties in NHL history, given the existence of the cap, the flat cap we had to deal with, the shortened offseasons, and the bubble our players had to endure. Not a hard argument to make that we had the toughest road of them all.

 

[Stammertime91]

Kind of hard to elevate that Chicago dynasty with what's going on right now. Wouldn't exactly take away from the on ice product but there's a cloud over that team and management that was a part of those 3 cup wins. That'll always loom overhead for me.

 

[Sky04]

What's happening now doesn't take away from their on ice result. 3 cups in 6 years is the modern dynasty, especially in a cap era of revolving players. 3 in 3 would be more impressive than some of those 80's teams for sure.

 

[These Are The Days]

Like let's win 3 in a row first but for the "4" argument, if we actually pulled that off it would be in the argument for GOAT dynasty. We aren't playing in the Original 6, expansion 70's and an 80's era that is antithesis of the current product.

Even a 3-peat would be ridiculous and I'm not hanging my hopes on it happening

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Like let's win 3 in a row first but for the "4" argument, if we actually pulled that off it would be in the argument for GOAT dynasty. We aren't playing in the Original 6, expansion 70's and an 80's era that is antithesis of the current product.

Even a 3-peat would be ridiculous and I'm not hanging my hopes on it happening

But two of them would have asterisks

 

[MattM92]

If the goalpost for a dynasty is winning 4 in a row, I don't see that ever happening again. I don't even think it's possible to win 3 in a row unless a very young and cheap roster catches magic for several years. The cap era is meant to break up dynasties so we don't spend a decade swapping Cups between 2-3 teams anymore. These days a dynasty is when a team with the same core is able to find prolonged success including winning multiple championships.

The Blackhawks of 2009-2015 are a dynasty. 3x Stanley Cups and 2x WCF appearances in 7 seasons.

The LA Kings of 2012-2014 are a borderline dynasty. 2x Stanley Cups and a WCF appearance in 3 seasons. May have won 3 in 3 had they not run into the peak of the Blackhawks dynasty in the WCF in 2013.

The Pittsburgh Penguins of 2008-2017 are a dynasty. 3x Stanley Cups, a SCF appearance, and an ECF appearance in 10 years.

The Tampa Bay Lightning of 2015-2021 are a dynasty. 2x Stanley Cups, a SCF appearance (loss to the Blackhawks dynasty), and 2x ECF appearances in 7 years. Not to mention arguably the greatest regular season in NHL history.

An example of a really good team for a long period of time that is NOT a dynasty is Boston from 2011-2019. Same core of players that finished at or near the top of the league most of those 9 years, but not enough postseason finish to qualify IMO. 1x Stanley Cup and 2x SCF appearances in 9 years doesn't make the cut.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

So 3 Cups in a row is a dynasty not 4 ?

Eh, it's one of those words (like so many in sports) that's gotten watered down with overuse. It's like, we had so many "stars" of the sports world that we need "superstars", and even those have long been a dime a dozen. Or that the list of people at some point designated an "all-time great" is pretty endless.

To me, the term "dynasty" has always been influenced by its actual (non-sports) meaning: a line of hereditary rules. Something where power and prestige are passed from generation to generation. To me, the UCLA Bruins with 10 national championships in the 60's and 70's are the very definition of a dynasty. Sure they had the same coach over that entire run, but they had complete roster turnover a few times in the course of it.

To me, a hockey team that wins four Cups in 10 years, with the torch being passed from one captain to another, looks more like a dynasty than one that wins four straight Cups all with the same core.

I get that my view is idiosynratic here, but since we're just using the term however we want it seems silly to argue over three vs four.

All that said, I would definitely argue that if we do set a bar at four, it doesn't need to happen all in four or five or even six years. I'd be good with it happening within a decade, and definitely within 8 years, as long as there aren't any huge gaps. Such a team looks like a clear "dynasty" to me.

 

[DFC]

I don't see how 3 in a row doesn't meet the criteria in a cap world. Even 3 in 4 years, probably even 5 years. You have established yourself as "the team to beat" over a solid chunk of time. I think if we were to win it again this year, and the odds are stacked against us, no doubt, then our near-misses come into play and they become successes. All the ECF runs and the failed SCF run and 62 wins. Those are all now part of a pretty great history.

Of course, major success is measured in cups. But man, if we win another one? It's just hard to imagine another team being able to match that under the current rules. Dynasties have to be somewhat relative to conditions, and we're trying to do something nearly impossible in today's game.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Hope Kucherov returns in time for another Stanley Cup run.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

 

[Sky04]

Jonny Cooper, how original.

 

[JoVel]

Naming your kid Jonny (if that's his full name?) is a good way to make sure no one's gonna ever spell it right.

Johnathan is equally bad.

Anyone with either of those names deserves to have their name misspelled on their Starbucks coffee.

 

[Felonious Python]

Naming your kid Jonny (if that's his full name?) is a good way to make sure no one's gonna ever spell it right.

Johnathan is equally bad.

Anyone with either of those names deserves to have their name misspelled on their Starbucks coffee.

I can respect the versatility of a Johnathan though. If they want to be John, they can. You want to be Johno, you can. Nathan? The world is your oyster.

I tweeted a response to Joe Smith just saying that Pepsi cans look like Bud Light cans, and I've gotten 8 likes. Seems I really struck a chord in the zeitgeist.

 

[Lightning1995]

So happy he’s back. Unbelievable player, so much fun to watch.

His postgame interview was…….interesting

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

"There was no injury, I don't know what you're talking about."

 

[BoltzManConstant]

So happy he’s back. Unbelievable player, so much fun to watch.

His postgame interview was…….interesting

Ha, yeah. Classic (sober) Kuch.

Coop's being a bit prickly too.

 

[Bolt32]

Ha, yeah. Classic (sober) Kuch.

Coop's being a bit prickly too.

I don't know what league is higher than this, but the man deserves a call up. You can tell hes just thinking the game at a higher level than everyone else.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

the best part of last night was initially thinking "wow i bet kuch will be rusty" and he was. what i wasn't expecting was the rest of the team to be rusty adjacent, as in, stamkos unable to make a one timer because he was so shocked the cross ice pass made it through. if you called that, please come up and accept your award.

 

[Beyonder91]

I don't know what league is higher than this, but the man deserves a call up. You can tell hes just thinking the game at a higher level than everyone else.

Agreed! It's amazing to watch him

 

[Konnan511]

The only Lightning jersey i own is Kucherov, glad he is back and my God did he play amazing last night. He's out there playing 5D chess when everyone else is playing POGs

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

 

[These Are The Days]

Take a moment to appreciate the moment for what it is. For just a moment there Kucherov is channeling The Great One in that pass to Colton. It's about as close to the answer to "How would Gretzky do in today's NHL?" as we're gonna get. Even if it's just for a moment and not impossible that Gretzky would probably do this all the time. It's probably not crazy to find footage of Kucherov standing still like he does, dissecting the whole ice surface with his mind no differently than Mario either.

Guy is special

 

[MrGeno101]

A pure hockeygenius, one of the last true artist in the game.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

A pure hockeygenius, one of the last true artist in the game.

Legendary.

This reminds me that he used to be able to hit a gear that we haven't seen since, what, before the first Cup run? He has somehow found a way to improve his puck handling and passing (from already insane heights) during the injuries. If we can ever get him fully healed and skating at 100%, he's definitely got a 130 point season in him.