Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part VII

[Harry Kakalovich]

I think Vegas is happy with the trade - Pacioretty is a good player - I think it's a win-win trade.

 

[DangerDave]

Do you think Vegas would have preferred to keep Suzuki over Glass?

Think they would have preferred keeping both lol. Both will be really good players though. My guess is they put up similar numbers

 

[Tyson]

Do you think Vegas would have preferred to keep Suzuki over Glass?

I don’t. Glass is what 6’5 RH Center with an upside equal or higher

 

[calder candidate]

Do you think Vegas would have preferred to keep Suzuki over Glass?

No.

 

[OldCraig71]

Suzuki has the best vision and creativity of all of our forwards, the sad part for him is that he is playing for a coach that is hard on rookies that make mistakes. He is a smart player though and I am hopeful that he becomes a first-line player.

 

[Draft]

I don’t. Glass is what 6’5 RH Center with an upside equal or higher

I've never seen him listed above 6'2 and typically around the same weight as Suzuki. Did he have a huge growth spurt that I don't know about?

Very similar players.

 

[DangerDave]

I've never seen him listed above 6'2 and typically around the same weight as Suzuki. Did he have a huge growth spurt that I don't know about?

Very similar players.

You're right. He's 6'2".

Suzuki has the best vision and creativity of all of our forwards, the sad part for him is that he is playing for a coach that is hard on rookies that make mistakes. He is a smart player though and I am hopeful that he becomes a first-line player.

Luckily, Suzuki plays a very sound defensive game. He's +5 and his possession stats are excellent already. CJ seems to like him.

 

[OldCraig71]

You're right. He's 6'2".


Luckily, Suzuki plays a very sound defensive game. He's +5 and his possession stats are excellent already. CJ seems to like him.

The reason that he is a plus player says more about the way he is willing to play in order to stay in the lineup, he is playing a safe game to please Clode.(no more talk of the minors these days) I felt that last year during camp he played it as safe as possible in order to make the team. Kotkaniemi is doing the same thing and it's a shame, let them go, tell them to have fun out there and tell them to be as creative as possible, this team is not going anywhere this year, use it as development for the future.

 

[DangerDave]

The reason that he is a plus player says more about the way he is willing to play in order to stay in the lineup, he is playing a safe game to please Clode.(no more talk of the minors these days) I felt that last year during camp he played it as safe as possible in order to make the team. Kotkaniemi is doing the same thing and it's a shame, let them go, tell them to have fun out there and tell them to be as creative as possible, this team is not going anywhere this year, use it as development for the future.

Well you can see it really got to KK. I'm of the opinion that he should get sent down so he can play big minutes and not fear a demotion for every small mistake he makes. It's unfortunate for him but he's just going to stagnate if he doesn't get more leash.

Suzuki on the other hand has always played a very safe game and I don't think he's necessarily afraid of making a mistake. I think he just had a adaptation period and he's a historically slow starter on top of that. Not too worried about him because he's exactly the type of player Julien likes.

 

[OldCraig71]

Well you can see it really got to KK. I'm of the opinion that he should get sent down so he can play big minutes and not fear a demotion for every small mistake he makes. It's unfortunate for him but he's just going to stagnate if he doesn't get more leash.

Suzuki on the other hand has always played a very safe game and I don't think he's necessarily afraid of making a mistake. I think he just had a adaptation period and he's a historically slow starter on top of that. Not too worried about him because he's exactly the type of player Julien likes.

Therrien did the same thing with Galchenyuk and he was a much higher producer than KK might ever be, it is a mistake. Wy bring these guys into the lineup and basically tell them either by action or word that they have to play a certain way or simply not play. If we were a top 5 team in the league I could understand it but in terms of where we are it makes no sense, let them play, let them create, most great players are more than just dump and chase types.

 

[DangerDave]

Therrien did the same thing with Galchenyuk and he was a much higher producer than KK might ever be, it is a mistake. Wy bring these guys into the lineup and basically tell them either by action or word that they have to play a certain way or simply not play. If we were a top 5 team in the league I could understand it but in terms of where we are it makes no sense, let them play, let them create, most great players are more than just dump and chase types.

Yeah I agree. I'm all for giving KK more opportunities and better linemates but it's clear that Julien doesn't care. He just wants to win games now and KK hasn't exactly moved the needle for us. MB needs to step up here.

 

[CHwest]

Therrien did the same thing with Galchenyuk and he was a much higher producer than KK might ever be, it is a mistake. Wy bring these guys into the lineup and basically tell them either by action or word that they have to play a certain way or simply not play. If we were a top 5 team in the league I could understand it but in terms of where we are it makes no sense, let them play, let them create, most great players are more than just dump and chase types.

The offence is being coached right out of the youngsters. They are both at an age when they should be exploring the boundaries of what they can do in the league. For this reason alone I would prefer them in the AHL, let them develop their offensive instincts. Third line centers are a dime a dozen, every team has two.

 

[OldCraig71]

Yeah I agree. I'm all for giving KK more opportunities and better linemates but it's clear that Julien doesn't care. He just wants to win games now and KK hasn't exactly moved the needle for us. MB needs to step up here.

But he won't, Therrien did the exact same thing, they believe that if you make the playoffs anything can happen, no room for young guys that might jeopardize that.

 

[Runner77]

I've never seen him listed above 6'2 and typically around the same weight as Suzuki. Did he have a huge growth spurt that I don't know about?

Very similar players.

NHL.com has Glass at 6'2, 192 lbs. Suzuki is listed at 5'11, 201 lbs.

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

The reason that he is a plus player says more about the way he is willing to play in order to stay in the lineup, he is playing a safe game to please Clode.(no more talk of the minors these days) I felt that last year during camp he played it as safe as possible in order to make the team. Kotkaniemi is doing the same thing and it's a shame, let them go, tell them to have fun out there and tell them to be as creative as possible, this team is not going anywhere this year, use it as development for the future.

Problem with this is that they are still to green to just go out there and make high risk high reward plays. Experienced opposition will make them pay. It happens to drouin all the time. They need to learn and progress playing it safe until their defense is solid enough to start making those plays with similar offensively gifted teammates.

Every fan wants a mcdavid level player and every fan hopes that their higher end prospects reach their potential sooner than later but that's not how it works 90% of the time. Patience.

 

[OldCraig71]

Problem with this is that they are still to green to just go out there and make high risk high reward plays. Experienced opposition will make them pay. It happens to drouin all the time. They need to learn and progress playing it safe until their defense is solid enough to start making those plays with similar offensively gifted teammates.

Every fan wants a mcdavid level player and every fan hopes that their higher end prospects reach their potential sooner than later but that's not how it works 90% of the time. Patience.

I did not say anything that made it look like I thought that Suzuki or Kotkaniemi were similar to McDavid, this is also not my first season watching good young players trying to make it on the Montreal Canadiens either! We are nowhere near being a contending team and restricting players in ice time and which lime they can be on does not develop them either. I am telling you that these young players are playing a safe game as a means not to be demoted or sitting in the press box, I don't think that is the proper way to develop a young player in this league. If he is a liability to whatever it is that Claude is trying to accomplish than he would be best served playing in Laval on a top line and not here.

 

[cphabs]

Problem with this is that they are still to green to just go out there and make high risk high reward plays. Experienced opposition will make them pay. It happens to drouin all the time. They need to learn and progress playing it safe until their defense is solid enough to start making those plays with similar offensively gifted teammates.

Every fan wants a mcdavid level player and every fan hopes that their higher end prospects reach their potential sooner than later but that's not how it works 90% of the time. Patience.

“It happens to Drouin all the time.”?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I thought Kotkaniemi should have been sent down to the AHL if it's to play 10min a game.

He is still young and it's obvioud he needs an offensive confidence boost.

 

[Tyson]

I've never seen him listed above 6'2 and typically around the same weight as Suzuki. Did he have a huge growth spurt that I don't know about?

Very similar players.

I was watching a Vegas game where I could have sworn they said he was 6’5. I did some research and you are right...6’2. Thanks

 

[Price4Prez]

Suzuki is a year older, and doesnt have to fill out hid frame as much as Kotka does. They have a similar skill level, skating speed and hockey IQ.

Enjoy Suzuki this year and let Kotka play his 10 sheltered minutes for another year. He is one of the youngest players in the league. He has a whole career to dominate.

Loving Suzukis progression every game right now. Solid plays

 

[ECWHSWI]

Suzuki is a year older, and doesnt have to fill out hid frame as much as Kotka does. They have a similar skill level, skating speed and hockey IQ.

Enjoy Suzuki this year and let Kotka play his 10 sheltered minutes for another year. He is one of the youngest players in the league. He has a whole career to dominate.

Loving Suzukis progression every game right now. Solid plays

might as well send him to Laval, 10 minutes, no forwards on the Habs play that little, even healthy scrath Weal plays a lot more when in the line up.

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

“It happens to Drouin all the time.”?

Trying to make fancy offensive plays that worked without much defensive awareness like in junior.

What is this convo. I'm trying to say the kids need a to learn defense in order to become great players at both ends of the rink.. Montreal is drafting high offensive players and equipping them early with strong two way play so that in 3-8 years we have a power house 2 way cup contender.

 

[Toene]

Trying to make fancy offensive plays that worked without much defensive awareness like in junior.

What is this convo. I'm trying to say the kids need a to learn defense in order to become great players at both ends of the rink.. Montreal is drafting high offensive players and equipping them early with strong two way play so that in 3-8 years we have a power house 2 way cup contender.

I'm not saying you are wrong here, but you omit some things :

- You learn by making mistakes. You make mistakes by playing more. Most importantly, having shifts often makes the player go out there and get a feel for what flies and what doesn't. If you sit too long after the fact, you have too much time to think, to doubt yourself. If we want Kotkaniemi to develop, he must be able to fine tune his game and the only way is by trial and error. Coaching staff should encourage mistakes, as long as they are used to learn. It's their job. They are instructors.

- Playing the less out of your whole team, it can effect confidence. Players look at the score-sheet. He knows he isn't trusted as much as the others. He may even feel responsible if the team struggles. Kotkaniemi isn't some journeyman or plug that should be thankful at each opportunity. He's someone who's expected to be a top dog. Without inflating his ego, you should still avoid him doubting himself at all cost. You want him to believe in his abilities in such a crucial part of his development. His development not just as a pro player, but his own psychological development. He's young, a relative celebrity in a big town, he's got money. When you feel frustration in your career, at any age, you may fall back on easily accessible outlets. Entertainment, subtances, women, anything. I'm not saying he's fragile or anything, I don't know him personally, I'm saying all ~20yo kids are. The risk of bringing up a player this young isn't only about sheltering him on the ice, it's also about monitoring his state of mind and the way he handles the new experiences. Right now he must prove himself, while being one if not the less used player. Kind of an unfair task. Playing in the NHL is enough pressure, being singled out (as indicted black-on-white on the score sheet after every game) is something that's hard for any player, let alone ones that aren't yet allowed to drink in the USA.

No, we're not in a rush in his case, but you got to have a well-thought approach from the start, not improvising as it goes. It's confusing and unfair.

 

[Price4Prez]

might as well send him to Laval, 10 minutes, no forwards on the Habs play that little, even healthy scrath Weal plays a lot more when in the line up.

Not against sending him to Laval personally, but i do think his play hasnt warranted extra playing time. Not sure if its due to his injury, the adapting to his extra weight, or just the mythical second year curse, but he isnt playing the same way as last year. You can blame the linemates but at the end of the day, Suzuki performed better both offensively and defensively with those same linemates before getting his promo.

 

[Mrb1p]

Do you think Vegas would have preferred to keep Suzuki over Glass?

Theyd rather still have Suzuki probably, but no, Glass is still a better prospect.