rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
That’s how trades work. You trade older expensive player who are proven for younger cheaper players who are unproven. That’s the whole point.
Speculation: Nick Schmaltz
- Thread starter RABBIT
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YotesFan47
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I agree with that, but don't trade Schmaltz. From a team building perspective, you don't trade guys who fit the rebuild and will positively impact the locker room. Without physically shadowing Keller, Crouse, and Schmaltz, I feel like they want to be here and win here. Unless they ask out, you keep them until you can't.
I'm not down with moving Schmaltz. I'm also biased in that I've been saying we should keep him for years, while others have said trade him because he's not worth his contract. He's finally hit valuable, and now we're starting that conversation again, I'm not about it.
I'd add that he'll help with the transition of the prospects to NHL by taking the focus off of them.
Dead Coyote
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I've watched a lot of Lambert, so I'll temper the thought here-
Lambert I honestly was really high on. If this was a year ago, I'd probably jump on that. Problem is, he has a couple of problems that have shown up. Number 1 is that he hasn't made much, if any, progress since being drafted. He's still the exact same player he was. Which is both good and bad. Problem number 2 is that if you looked up the definition of inconsistent in the dictionary, it would show Brad Lambert's picture. Everyone knows this. You fall in love with the guy, he's easy to fall in love with. His skating is superb, his puck handling is great and he has great offensive instincts. And those things, especially his skating, are easy to notice.
Now if only the guy could consistently play that like that, he'd be on the same level as a top 5 pick, it's what he was touted as at the start of his draft year. Unfortunately for him, there's been absolutely zero indication that he can consistently do that. He hasn't gotten better or more responsible defensively, though you can sometimes tell that he has tried to in his games, especially in Liiga. But he isn't the kind of player who has an eternal motor or looks engaged all the time. I'm glad he's finding his confidence in the WHL again, but it means nothing that a 19yo can score in the WHL. No matter how good his skills are. Literally by just being older, bigger, and smarter, you can be a PPG player in the CHL. It's not that hard (that's not to underscore those achievements, but I've seen it time and time again after following an OHL franchise the better part of 20 years). Lambert definitely still has those skills, so he could be special. But he hasn't shown anywhere close to the ability to take the next step. He's just small enough that he'll have trouble against NHL d-man and being outmuscled off the puck, and he just doesn't have the mentality or work ethic to be a guy like Grabner who make a career out of being fast and working hard. He needs more bulk, but more importantly he needs to show that he won't give up at the slightest sign of adversity and that he can battle and power through that.
This years WJC, last years WJC, his time in Liiga...none of these things are impressive in the slightest or point to him being an impact player at the NHL level. You can fall in love with his potential and talent all you want, results are just as important, and Lambert has none. We could have had him at the draft when we went off board with Lamoreaux and Lambert was picked one pick later. There's no way I want him in return for Schmaltz, who is what we hope Lambert becomes.
Dead Coyote
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Lambert is unproven everywhere. While Kemell was lighting it up in Liiga on the same team, Lambert was struggling. Lambert moved teams to what he thought would be a more favorable situation, and because he wanted to play in the playoffs...and struggled. Lambert has struggled a lot more than he's succeeded. He had one good year as a 17yo and we all got hyped as hell for him, and ever since then he hasn't shown anywhere close to that ability again. In spurts, in a few games, here and there, like the preseason, he has, but consistently? Even over 30 games? Nope.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Wild. I think he’s improved a lot over this time last year.
I disagree strongly.
.
True
True
Absolute wild take.
Dead Coyote
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WHL is a great league, for development, but time and time again we've seen players who can't learn any more from playing in it absolutely dominate it. I don't put that much faith in it after D+1 or +2 years. Tons of guys who weren't even drafted have absolutely shredded the league. Even guys like Strome who were highly touted. f***, we should know all about those guys with our draft history of Perlini, Samuelsson, Merkley, Gormley, all guys who came out of the CHL highly touted. Every team has plenty of guys like that. And there's plenty of guys like Raddysh, Fox, and every other 19-20yo who dominated the CHL but could never make it to the OHL. Dominating the CHL is impressive when you're 15, 16, 17, or 18, for sure. And it's a good league and popular and great to watch guys with in NA. But that's where it ends. Not that it really matters, since Lambert also hasn't shown anything with any other league.
If this weren't Brad Lambert we were talking about would any of us care about a guy who hasn't showed up when the competition is even somewhat hard? It's not like scouts even disagree that he's wildly inconsistent, or that he hasn't shown a ton of work ethic and consistency, it's why he dropped like a freaking crater, along with his results not matching up with his skill. For sure I'd take him, and I don't think he's awful, but he's not good enough or guaranteed to be elite in the NHL or even get to a PPG, why the hell would we trade Schmaltz for him 1 for 1? Or even with him as the main package piece?
Dead Coyote
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Ultimately same, but I'd still want more than just those for Schmaltz.
Schmaltz has turned into a very good player. Much better than I thought when we traded for him.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I honestly can’t begin to argue with this. These aren’t points. You could apply this to literally any prospect. I’ll sum up; I don’t agree in any way, to any degree, with almost anything you’ve asserted here.
The parts where you said he struggled last season, and where you said he’s pretty soft and bad defensively are all true. That’s it. The rest honestly strikes me as utterly baseless.
Dead Coyote
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Other prospects were in the CHL before they turned 19. If they weren't, most of them have had good or consistent production in other leagues. It's not super common to go from Liiga to the CHL, for sure. And you're right that these are prospect independent, which is why I take production in the CHL with a grain of salt, at least among 19 and 20 year olds.
Honestly I'm not even sure what your stance is on Lambert, other than you'd trade Schmaltz for him. I might agree with your stance, who knows, but I definitely don't agree that we should trade Schmaltz for him. At least not without a couple of other pieces coming back too.
tucknroll
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Lambert reminds me of Carl hagelin, skates unbelievably well and has good skills with the puck. But low IQ. I do think Lambert has much better vision than hagelin ever did but he relies on his skill too much, the amount of times I've seen him knowingly skate himself into trouble is the reason I worry about him transitioning to the next level. Of course he's killing it in the WHL, but you could see his struggles with this in better leagues. I've always endorsed the idea of rather teaching a player to do less than teaching him to do more. But with Lambert's skill set. I believe that gets into a Carl hagelin trajectory. Which is fine, hagelin was great for stripping pucks, closing gaps and getting the puck into the offensive zone. I just wouldn't trade Schmaltz for Hagelin. I will also admit that Lambert has a higher offensive ceiling than hagelin ever did, but at the same time he might be less motivated to transition to a defensive two-way game if the offense doesn't adapt in the NHL...
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Niederrieter just got only a 2nd. Doesn't seem like a scoring winger has much value. Another reason to keep Schmaltz.
JasonDemersWasOkay
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
True. And rumors are that Vancouver isn’t finding much of a market for Boeser or Garland. Just keep Schmaltz.
And yet people on this board are happy with two late first round picks for Chych. IF we trade with Washington we are more than likely getting the Bruins pick. Next year is a crap shoot as Washington might take a dive, or they might surprise with having less injuries. I just hate any deal with Washington or Pittsburgh.
Dead Coyote
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Ok man. You keep delivering one liners and stating that I'm wrong without providing anything- evidence, thoughts, projections, stats, advanced stats, anything- to even say what your point is. It's like I'm talking with a wall. I'm gonna bow out of this conversation now, because ultimately, I don't think Lambert is anywhere good enough to fetch Schmaltz, and you...really haven't responded to that. At all. So I'm gonna keep my opinion the same- Schmaltz is a good piece who is currently a ppg player and at minimum a good top 6 winger or center, and Lambert will be lucky to reach that height, but if he does he could be better than Schmaltz.
Have a good one!
Not my argument but if you want fact based you might want to reconsider the Schmaltz as a point a game player one.
He basically has been for the last two years, playing for a low scoring team. The last two years is what teams will look at. Schmaltz is probably worth more to the Coyotes than most other teams.
Dead Coyote
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Dead Coyote
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