Player Discussion Nick Paul (LW)

[Six Assets]

Only Pierre was able to see the future.

View media item 8093

Murray made the Spezza trade

 

[NyQuil]

Murray made the Spezza trade

Only because Dorion snuck into his house and whispered it in his ear while Bryan slept.

 

[Icelevel]

Murray made the Spezza trade

With a Dorion high five no doubt.

Terrible terrible trading for the longest time here.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Murray made the Spezza trade

Dorion kept him this whole time knowing we'd be rewarded.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Discuss

Just some facts for you guys ... Nick was over 240 2 years ago when DJ asked him to try to be more fit and lose weight ... now he is still 6ft4 but only 207 ... it has increased his foot speed but not carrying all that weight ... he also does not look big anymore like pic his body fat is ridiculously low ... when I saw him this summer I even asked him about it and he told me lifestyle changes and fitness would make difference for him ... fyi he has hardest shot still on team by quite a bit at 108 mph ... it might even be up a bit ... and da kid always takes a little more time than most to excel at every level he has played so no surprise to me it is s,ow but steady development ... and as he gets more puck confidence his numbers will go up in NHL too (like a 50-60 pt player is where he will end up) in a couple years ... Murray knew it from day 1 he made da trade and DJ saw da potential too ... those 2 guys are who he follows and listens to and of course his dad ... and a shout out to Ellwood here too ... you did right buddy

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Just some facts for you guys ... Nick was over 240 2 years ago when DJ asked him to try to be more fit and lose weight ... now he is still 6ft4 but only 207 ... it has increased his foot speed but not carrying all that weight ... he also does not look big anymore like pic his body fat is ridiculously low ... when I saw him this summer I even asked him about it and he told me lifestyle changes and fitness would make difference for him ... fyi he has hardest shot still on team by quite a bit at 108 mph ... it might even be up a bit ... and da kid always takes a little more time than most to excel at every level he has played so no surprise to me it is s,ow but steady development ... and as he gets more puck confidence his numbers will go up in NHL too (like a 50-60 pt player is where he will end up) in a couple years ... Murray knew it from day 1 he made da trade and DJ saw da potential too ... those 2 guys are who he follows and listens to and of course his dad ... and a shout out to Ellwood here too ... you did right buddy

You mean last year/season I guess..
Paul has been coming.. IMO he should have had more of a shot earlier with Boucher.. we had a terrible bottom 6 for while when he was here.
I'm glad Paul kept on keeping on. He has even more in him I believe

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You mean last year/season I guess..
Paul has been coming.. IMO he should have had more of a shot earlier with Boucher.. we had a terrible bottom 6 for while when he was here.
I'm glad Paul kept on keeping on. He has even more in him I believe

It started spring 2019 with his new weight loss and fitness program ... last season he was down 20 pounds and this season down 30 pounds ... he can speak for himself but give tons of credit to DJ as his coach

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It started spring 2019 with his new weight loss and fitness program ... last season he was down 20 pounds and this season down 30 pounds ... he can speak for himself but give tons of credit to DJ as his coach

He gave him his best shot and certainly fits with what DJ wants to do.. I'd be pretty happy if I am Paul as well. Well deserved chance and made the most of it though.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He gave him his best shot and certainly fits with what DJ wants to do.. I'd be pretty happy if I am Paul as well. Well deserved chance and made the most of it though.

He knows he needs to giver every night and he has fought too hard to get where he is ... he needs his contract too

 

[DrEasy]

Crazy how it only took one game for the Nick Paul lovefest to emerge, where was all of this a month ago?

What are you talking about? Many of us have been defending him in this very thread, but of course it meant criticizing your beloved management who didn't give him a chance.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He knows he needs to giver every night and he has fought too hard to get where he is ... he needs his contract too

On Boucher vs DJ.

I think Boucher is a really smart guy.. Great communicator as well. I think is very strict system hurt us. We got to the ECF .. I'll credit Boucher but we had an absolutely unbelievable performance out of Karlsson and great performances from a few others. Boucher wanted you to play with precision inside his system its not natural.

DJ is not hard to understand as a coach ... and so far he seems to be able to get the most out of his players .. of varying natural abilities. He likes his hockey to be played hard and likes to take no prisoners. Every single player can respect that and lots of players have played for coaches like that. I think Dorion lucked in to DJ being available at the right time.

 

[NyQuil]

DJ is not hard to understand as a coach ... and so far he seems to be able to get the most out of his players .. of varying natural abilities. He likes his hockey to be played hard and likes to take no prisoners. Every single player can respect that and lots of players have played for coaches like that. I think Dorion lucked in to DJ being available at the right time.

A good coach has to be able to adapt and play different opponents in different ways.

I get that our personnel limits us at this point in time, and that the types of guys we do have appear to fit well with the system DJ wants to use.

I just hope his answer to losing isn't "Play harder." because there's a limit to how far that can go.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A good coach has to be able to adapt and play different opponents in different ways.

I get that our personnel limits us at this point in time, and that the types of guys we do have appear to fit well with the system DJ wants to use.

I just hope his answer to losing isn't "Play harder." because there's a limit to how far that can go.

I am not saying he's a genius but I think he knows when players are playing to their limits. I think if he says you can play harder... you probably can. I get he comes across with that in his communications but.. I also think he's been around long enough to know if a player has more to give

 

[Xspyrit]

The deal was horrible. We picked the wrong prospects on Dallas. We wanted to bring in a young NHL asset and just like with Conacher picked the wrong one in Chiasson (Pro scouting...). Would've been better off just trading him for a single 1st round pick from a team. Problem at the time (if I remember the conversation at the time) was that we were wanting a young NHLer and prospects + picks whereas (if I recall) some of the interest was 'prospects or picks-only'. Either way - it would have been better to target one good asset.

In terms of the Spezza contract - he was overpaid for the last two years there but his first two years there he was fantastic and led the Stars to late in the 2nd round when Seguin got hurt at the start of the playoffs. Nill has said he had no regrets about the Spezza deal etc... The issue Spezza ran into in the last two years was he stopped getting offensive opportunities in the way he was beforehand and his 5 v 5 play started slipping (though not as much as people said). Switching him around all over the ice in terms of position and in and out of the lineup etc.. really made it hard for him to produce at a better level (say 35-40 points) where he probably would have been. I would have taken the last 4 years of Spezza in Dallas above Bobby Ryan any day of the week. Made even more apparent when you consider his leadership etc...

"The deal was horrible", that is your emotional response, not necessarily the reality. I can't explain it in one sentence so you'll have to read the whole post sorry.

"We picked the wrong prospects on Dallas", this is not an argument holding ground in the reality because we have no idea which prospects Dallas were making available for that trade. It's not "pick the prospects you want". Even for a guy like Erik Karlsson, there was apparently prospects that were just not available (Glass, Heiskanen, etc). There's max a team is ready to pay for a player.

"Would've been better off just trading him for a single 1st round pick", but what if that pick turns into Jim O'Brien? That would be an even worse result. And the offer has to be on a table. It looks like Nashville was the only team willing to give up a 1st. Ottawa OBVIOUSLY took the 2nd best offer. Murray wanted a first-round pick, a roster player and a prospect for Spezza, but obviously couldn't get one (copied/paste that so can provide links if you want)

The return from Nashville would have been apparently : 11th OA pick, Patric Hornqvist and Nic Spaling (which is pretty similar to what we gave up for Bobby Ryan (who was 5-6 years younger) and had 2 years on contract vs 1 for Spezza)

It's like you have an used car but you need to sell it. You have really great memories with that car so you set a price that you want for it but nobody offers you even close to that. So it's either you lower your price according to the reality of the market, or you keep the car until it doesn't work out anymore.

In that case, it was either taking Dallas offer or keep Spezza until he walks as an UFA in the summer. Keep in mind, it's not about fans perceived value, but the REAL market value (HF has a really huge tendency of overvaluing players returns, and we are all guilty of that at some point)

And Dallas doesn't have to regret it for us to be ok (in retrospect) with what happened. Obviously, we'd want our players to play their whole careers with our team and that everything stays shiny but things play out differently, in the real world. What I often observe is that criticism isn't always consistent both ways. Example : the Ryan deal sucked because he became overpaid as his production dropped, etc but Spezza being massively overpaid for 2 years on a 4 years contract is not the same argument?

I see you're trying hard to find reasons why Spezza's production dropped but the reality is that he was 34 y/o, he simply fell off a cliff like all players do at some point. With his injury history (and back issues), I'm actually quite surprised he is still in the league going on 38 y/o

Of course you would take the shorter term overpaid contract, I would too. If it would have been possible to sign Ryan only 4 years that would have been really great but again that is NOT how reality works. He was 27 y/o at the time and it's a market, players have leverage as UFAs. He would have gotten those 7 years in many other markets. It's a risk teams are ready to deal with. No one can predict if a player will start running into injury problems, could literally happen to everyone.

It sucks we couldn't get a more sexy return for our beloved player but it is what it is. The arguments I presented in the post you quoted are pretty much irrefutable (age is a simple fact, back problems are pretty well documented, contract situation is also a fact, etc). I actually would really like to see someone TRY to refute them.

I think what we should do now is appreciate having a guy like Nick Paul and breathe a bit thinking oh well, maybe that deal wasn't that "terrible" in the end. Spezza had an expiry date (2-3 years after the trade), Nick Paul can be a solid contributor for years.

 

[TheDebater]

Do we have nickname for Paul?

Might I suggest: Nick the brick Paul

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Do we have nickname for Paul?

Might I suggest: Nick the brick Paul

Mountain

 

[armani]

Do we have nickname for Paul?

Might I suggest: Nick the brick Paul

Someone called him Big Dick Nick on last night's GDT. Guy like!

 

[cudi]

I thought this was great lol

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[bert]

I gave up on him a year and a half ago, too casual and doesn't have the skill or grit to make up for that. Might turn out to be a Derek Grant type player on another team later though.

Woops!

He is a hound on the puck, just needs consistent ice time like most players to prove his value. His goal on Monday was a wicked shot with an incredible release.

Hunh weird.

Nick Paul gets a ton of opportunity tbh

There have been maybe 2 games in his career where he looked okay at the NHL level lol

Lol consistent spot on analysis.

Its up to Nick Paul to define what and who he is. Everytime he is up here he doesn't play physical enough to be a grinder, he doesn't use his skill or speed game to be a top 6 fwd. Its up to him to figure out where he belongs and to stick to what works

This is probably his last chance (i feel like we have been saying that for years with him) and he has had plenty of chances

 

[Liver King]

I gotta say this guy is becoming everything we ever wanted.

And I think there are more levels to his game. Key forward for us as we move along in the rebuild

 

[slamigo]

I'd like to see them try Stutzle at center with LW Paul and RW Batherson. I feel like this would be a fun combo.

 

[umma gumma]

I want Paul to shoot more. A lot more.

 

[Answer]

Despite how good he has been, he doesn't really move the needle. Every team has players like him or better as 6th forward or on the 3rd line.

 

[Xspyrit]

The positive this season despite the awful record is that we are getting some answers as to who should be pieces on the team long term

Tim Stutzle
Brady Tkachuk
Drake Batherson
Josh Norris
Nick Paul
Colin White
Connor Brown ?

Thomas Chabot
Artem Zub
Erik Brannstrom
Chris Wolanin ?

Matt Murray ?

Need to find :

5-6 forwards : Logan Brown? Formenton? Pinto? Greig? Sokolov? Abramov? Jarventie? Chlapik? Crookshank? Novak? Kelly? Kastelic? Daoust?

2-3 D-men : Sanderson? JBD? Kleven? Thomson? Guenette?

1 back-up goalie (if Murray continues to prove he can be a N.1) : Daccord? Mandolese? Gustavsson? Sogaard? Merilainen?