Nic Petan Turning it Around (MOD: Emergency call up 03/17)

[wpgsilver]

Based on the Moose games I've been to Petan is fine.
Looks like a young player adjusting to the pro game.
That said, his skill has been evident each time I've seen him play.

 

[CaptainChef]

Based on what? Plus minus? One of the least useful and most derided stats around?
Record wise Petan is better scorer on a worse team.

Th Only Reason he is in the AHL, especially now that we are in tank mode, is because we keep icing a useless Burmistrov.

Much better than Burmi & better than a lot of present Jets. All he needs is a decent chance with decent linemates.

 

[sully1410]

Nic Petan...quietly roaring back to burn down your village?

 

[BigZ65]

Just a question, and not necessarily directed towards you: why does this seem to be the prevailing wisdom with Petan, and not with Copp?

I don't want to turn this into a Copp thread, but it seems like most are perfectly happy that he's sticking with the Jets. I'm not quite sure how he's demonstrated any more pro-readiness than Petan.

I think this is a great question, and to some extent philosophical. Personally, I would never plug a rookie pro into the 4th line as anything but an injury replacement. Playing that role gives that player no opportunity to develop at the pro level, particularly offensive skill. There's the rare case of a guy who is both a tremendous offensive player already, but an extreme liability 5 on 5 who can play a significant role on the PP. That's about the only scenario where I'd like to see a rookie pro on the 4th line.

Priority should be on getting guys ice time against reasonable competition at a level where they can grow while having success.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Don't think he was ever off track. He wasn't put in any kind of position to succeed with the Jets. Basically thrown into the deep end and given a tennis ball and rubber ducky as flotation devices.

His play away from the puck will still need some work, but there's never been any question in my mind that his offensive ceiling is high.

So who's the tennis ball? Copp? So then Thor would be the rubber ducky!

Yes. Still maybe not next year out of TC but he should be ready for callup.

 

[csk]

I think this is a great question, and to some extent philosophical. Personally, I would never plug a rookie pro into the 4th line as anything but an injury replacement. Playing that role gives that player no opportunity to develop at the pro level, particularly offensive skill. There's the rare case of a guy who is both a tremendous offensive player already, but an extreme liability 5 on 5 who can play a significant role on the PP. That's about the only scenario where I'd like to see a rookie pro on the 4th line.

Priority should be on getting guys ice time against reasonable competition at a level where they can grow while having success.

Do players like that even exist?

 

[ecolad]

I think this is a great question, and to some extent philosophical. Personally, I would never plug a rookie pro into the 4th line as anything but an injury replacement. Playing that role gives that player no opportunity to develop at the pro level, particularly offensive skill. There's the rare case of a guy who is both a tremendous offensive player already, but an extreme liability 5 on 5 who can play a significant role on the PP. That's about the only scenario where I'd like to see a rookie pro on the 4th line.

Priority should be on getting guys ice time against reasonable competition at a level where they can grow while having success.

Listen to what PoMo actually says when he talks about the fourth line....he is still looking exclusively for"energy guys" and "high physicality" !!!! Still as old school as you can imagine.

He has tried to move slightly away from this line of thinking to help incorporate youth into the lineup but quickly defaults into "old school" whenever things regress just a little

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

Do players like that even exist?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=55023

 

[csk]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=55023

I don't know how to post Hero/Warrior charts, but he suppressed shots/goals at a top 6 rate most of his career.

 

[kylbaz]

Don't think he was ever off track. He wasn't put in any kind of position to succeed with the Jets. Basically thrown into the deep end and given a tennis ball and rubber ducky as flotation devices.

His play away from the puck will still need some work, but there's never been any question in my mind that his offensive ceiling is high.

Exactly. Said it before and I'll say it again, this guy is going to be our top playmaker and is going to make some unbelievable plays one day if he gets a chance.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

I don't know how to post Hero/Warrior charts, but he suppressed shots/goals at a top 6 rate most of his career.

yeah PP specialist was more how he was viewed rather than what he really was

there's still a massive disconnect between what people see as good defensive play and actual good defensive play ie Jake Gardiner

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I think this is a great question, and to some extent philosophical. Personally, I would never plug a rookie pro into the 4th line as anything but an injury replacement. Playing that role gives that player no opportunity to develop at the pro level, particularly offensive skill. There's the rare case of a guy who is both a tremendous offensive player already, but an extreme liability 5 on 5 who can play a significant role on the PP. That's about the only scenario where I'd like to see a rookie pro on the 4th line.

Priority should be on getting guys ice time against reasonable competition at a level where they can grow while having success.

I feel like sooner or later there's going to be a philosophical shift among NHL teams with respect to the fourth line being used as a refuge for plugs like Thorburn and big, young players with limited ceilings like Copp. NHL teams need to maximize the careers and contributions of players under 27, it's becoming an almost inarguable rule of success in the modern NHL.

I think it's happening to some extent: look at Tampa Bay, who has used skill players like Namestnikov, Drouin, Kucherov, and Marchessault in a fourth line role at various points.

There always is the question of development on an NHL fourth line versus the AHL, but I feel like NHL organizations could very well start thinking outside the box with their fourth lines, using them as a place for young and offensively talented players to learn the defensive side of the game as opposed to the traditional 7 min/game "checking line" where face punchers and marginal veterans reside.

 

[KingBogo]

It seems to me that the only thing Petan needs is to learn how to gain possession. Once he has the puck with a reasonable amount of space, its smooth sailing. Problem is, that he can't gain possession on his own and 4th line plugs can't get the puck to him.

That's the problem time and space are at a premium in the NHL. He will need to find ways to create that for himself. I'm glad to see he is starting to adapt in the AHL. Not sure if he makes the NHL next season, but one day I think he will make a good middle 6 winger. He will have to become more like MP. Tenacious on the puck, but then able to produce offense when he has it.

 

[BigZ65]

I don't know how to post Hero/Warrior charts, but he suppressed shots/goals at a top 6 rate most of his career.

Who was he playing against 5 on 5?

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Exactly. Said it before and I'll say it again, this guy is going to be our top playmaker and is going to make some unbelievable plays one day if he gets a chance.

Here's hoping. There are always the guys like Jordan Weal, undersized forwards who dominate in junior and the AHL but can't put it together in the NHL, but there are far more hits than misses for guys with Petan's offensive pedigree.

 

[KingBogo]

I agree with this. It feels like Petan is almost an afterthought as far as mgmt goes. Hope they don't give up on him and he goes on to become the next Paul Kariya.

Management gave him a 14 game trial, and in retrospect before he was ready. To me that would suggest they believe he will be a NHL player. He is being given the opportunity to drive offense for the Moose. How is that an after thought for the organization? He will be given lots of looks he just has to look good in any role even if it isn't the best fit.

 

[BigZ65]

I feel like sooner or later there's going to be a philosophical shift among NHL teams with respect to the fourth line being used as a refuge for plugs like Thorburn and big, young players with limited ceilings like Copp. NHL teams need to maximize the careers and contributions of players under 27, it's becoming an almost inarguable rule of success in the modern NHL.

I think it's happening to some extent: look at Tampa Bay, who has used skill players like Namestnikov, Drouin, Kucherov, and Marchessault in a fourth line role at various points.

There always is the question of development on an NHL fourth line versus the AHL, but I feel like NHL organizations could very well start thinking outside the box with their fourth lines, using them as a place for young and offensively talented players to learn the defensive side of the game as opposed to the traditional 7 min/game "checking line" where face punchers and marginal veterans reside.

Completely agree about how 4th lines are utilized, and it's a little crazy to me that they still are widely used that way given that they usually aren't by the teams that actually win. As long as you're employing a coach who runs his bench that way (I wouldn't) I don't believe that you can put rookies there full-time and expect them to develop at the NHL-level. If the coach doesn't trust the player to play more than 5 minutes a night, it's not really worth having the guy on the roster.

Tampa is kind of the ideal that way. Most of those guys you mentioned started in the AHL, and even if they only spent 20 games there, they earned a spot on the NHL team. It wasn't a Petan-esque situation where they were given a job and allowed to sink or swim as rookie pros. That's what I'd like to see, and I think it's crucial to "draft and develop."

 

[pucka lucka]

Do players like that even exist?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3105

 

[pucka lucka]

I think the NHL forgot why we had ****** energy 4th lines, lack of talent. It has nothing to do with a desired state. It drives me crazy when Team Canada would bring ****ing checkers to a best of the best tournament. League teams do that because they run out of skill. It's shouldn't be your goal to have Rob Zamuner on your 4th line at the Olympics.

 

[veganhunter]

I agree with this. It feels like Petan is almost an afterthought as far as mgmt goes. Hope they don't give up on him and he goes on to become the next Paul Kariya.

I guess you could perceive it that way but I remember last year a media member saying TNSE was super high on Petan and they they believed they had found their own MSL lite.

 

[lablite47]

The best thing Petan could do to up his chances for next year is to follow the Scheiflie road and attend the Gary Roberts School of man maker IMO. There is obviously nothing wrong with the offensive part of his game, he just needs to bulk up.

I know that asome of you will say that Johnny hockey didn't have to bulk up but Petan didn't rack up 80 points in a league amongst men either though.

 

[pucka lucka]

The best thing Petan could do to up his chances for next year is to follow the Scheiflie road and attend the Gary Roberts School of man maker IMO. There is obviously nothing wrong with the offensive part of his game, he just needs to bulk up.

I know that asome of you will say that Johnny hockey didn't have to bulk up but Petan didn't rack up 80 points in a league amongst men either though.

Not directed at just you, but why is there such an obsession with Gary Roberts? He didn't invent fitness. There are a tonne of high level trainers in North America. I hope his marketing guy is on commission

 

[Daximus]

It's awesome that Petan is starting to come on in the AHL. IMO he should have been down there after the first couple of games with the Jets. You could see he really struggled in his own end, in the corners and along the boards.
His passing and vision are his best traits and once he learns how to use those against the board battlers he will be a full time NHLer but I feel like he will need at least another season with the Moose before he gets a call up. The fact that he was the worst driver of play on the team, worse than even Thorburn and Burmi, is all the evidence I need.
I want this kid to succeed and be a good playmaker at the NHL level and I think over ripening him might be the best way to achieve that end goal.

 

[pucka lucka]

It's awesome that Petan is starting to come on in the AHL. IMO he should have been down there after the first couple of games with the Jets. You could see he really struggled in his own end, in the corners and along the boards.
His passing and vision are his best traits and once he learns how to use those against the board battlers he will be a full time NHLer but I feel like he will need at least another season with the Moose before he gets a call up. The fact that he was the worst driver of play on the team, worse than even Thorburn and Burmi, is all the evidence I need.
I want this kid to succeed and be a good playmaker at the NHL level and I think over ripening him might be the best way to achieve that end goal.

They played him out of position with tree stumps.

 

[surixon]

I'm not sure why there is so much consternation on these boards about a number of our higher end prospects needing AHL seasoning. This process is pretty common around the league. Tampa has been referenced but a significant portion of their young contingent needed AHL seasoning, some significant seasoning.

With regards to Petan I have seen a lot of growth in his game since the time he was first sent down. His reads are quicker, his movement is more refined and his positioning is also better. He is also looking to shoot a lot more than he was earlier. He still has trouble wining puck battles and has trouble at times holding off bigger forwards in the dzone but I expect all of that to improve as he gains more strength and experience. I think his improvement in the AHL shows why many players need to go down first as I saw very little growth from him in his 14 NHL stint with limited minutes in a less than ideal roll.

I think he will be just fine in time and it wouldn't surprise me to see him push his way onto the opening night roster if he continues to make the strides that he's making.