NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Killion]

No, they're not actually. Some really sophisticated sleaze artists can be found in many places-- churches, businesses, governments...... Almost an admission that some sectors of society would find Vegas and its primary business objectionable. Objectification of women too? Why the hell not? Quite admirable.

First part, quite correct, and you wont find them in Vegas because one sniff of nonsense & your outta there... these guys?.... scope you out beyond CIA recruitment protocols... as for the "women"? Huh? C'mon Foogs. Not only did Elvis have Showgirls complimenting his "musical numbers" but so too did John Denver for Gods Sake... I mean, seriously... thats just part of our culture... they complimented the stage presentation and were/are professionals. Showbiz.

 

[Fugu]

Interestingly the Las Vegas Tourist Board conducted a survey asking people whether or not they came to gamble or came for the shows & entertainment, events & museums, art galleries & so on (which btw are amongst the best in the world)? Almost 70% claiming "no, no intention to gamble, that bad" yet over 90% of them did in fact gamble and on average, app $500. Dont know what the % was in terms of losers, winners. Its just all so much more sophisticated than it once was in the 50's, 60's & 70"s (late 70's when I first worked there, and one Hell of a Freak Show, you had everything... and nothing). The Gumba's, all gone. Regulations up the ying~yang. Unions to deal with. A very demanding Tourist Board. Very strict on a lot of levels as theyve seen it all. You cannot move on The Strip without being surveilled. But as a throwback, thats some serious Americana and something to be proud of. That you should respect. Have to. Thing is, The Strip, all that junk? Only represntative of maybe 10% of what Las Vegas is really all about. Were talking High Strangeness down there, Nevada, the 4 Corners. It really is a great place & city. World Class. And despite the rather transient population the old timers, those that thrive, amongst the best of the best Ive ever met.

Maybe, maybe not.

I still don't think hockey and Vegas go hand in hand. We'll see.

 

[BattleBorn]

Maybe, maybe not.

I still don't think hockey and Vegas go hand in hand. We'll see.

I think what's most misunderstood about Vegas is that it's for sale. Everything here really is made to make money. Don't get me wrong, every city is like that with very few exceptions, capitalism and all. However, Vegas is unapologetic about it, almost to a fault.

It's a matter of survival. We're out here in the desert, after all. There's really no reason to be here unless we're making money.

Gaming is here because people want it. Sure, some can't handle it, but nobody's being bamboozled. The losses and the odds are known. Hell, other places are legalizing it because people want it.

Girls are dancing on stage shaking their goods because people want to see it, and they'll pay.

Repeat this a million times for everything people don't like about Vegas. It's here because people will pay for it.

We don't all have meetings and decide what we like and decide to do it whether or not it pisses the general public off. If there's a market for it, we'll do it. Anything for extra visitors and some more money coming to the desert.

This team is one of the few things I've ever seen living here where we'll need to sell it because we, as a city, really want it. I hope it works. I've got every reason to believe it will, just based on what I've seen this place do before.

 

[TheLegend]

Maybe, maybe not.

I still don't think hockey and Vegas go hand in hand. We'll see.

Well I would agree having topless showgirls as an ice scraping crew wouldn't go well at all....

Other than that..... I think a lot will depend upon how they market the franchise. Honestly.... the Elvis and big headliner show angles really would take away from it.

Of course if the casinos are involved with supporting the franchise commercially you're going to see some of it.

 

[Killion]

Repeat this a million times for everything people don't like about Vegas. It's here because people will pay for it.

... ya, well, sorry, draw the line at Criss Angel walking up the side of the MGM Grand... I mean, c'mon Dude... you have any idea how much energy it takes outta me to walk across my swimming pool up here in Peoria? Ha?... even when they see it dont believe it. Jesus. Cut me a break already.

 

[psowrc]

Yes that was discussed earlier.



How far do you have to scrape when the arena co-owner is MGM?

Yes, some perspective indeed.

The same level of scraping that would morally frown on the Molson's owning the Canadiens...in a province that historically has the highest consumption of alcohol in the country and a historically elevated rate of alcoholism nationwide.

In my opinion Seattle shouldn't get a team because Washington supports and has legalized the possession of marijuana in the state. Gateway drug...everyone has their morals that they plant their flag on.

One man's "sleaze" is another man's entertainment. It applies to all vices, not just gambling.

Can't wait for the home opener in Vegas! P6...

 

[Fugu]

The same level of scraping that would morally frown on the Molson's owning the Canadiens...in a province that historically has the highest consumption of alcohol in the country and a historically elevated rate of alcoholism nationwide.

In my opinion Seattle shouldn't get a team because Washington supports and has legalized the possession of marijuana in the state. Gateway drug...everyone has their morals that they plant their flag on.

Of course they do, but Washington has far more lucrative commercial activities than marijuana. It's really not the reason most people would visit or move here.

One man's "sleaze" is another man's entertainment. It applies to all vices, not just gambling.

One man's food is another man's poison, yes.

Can't wait for the home opener in Vegas! P6...

You'll have a home opener, alright. The fix is in.

That's not the question I have however. I don't see anyone taking a nibble at the rough numbers above on HRR and operational costs.

 

[Killion]

That's not the question I have however. I don't see anyone taking a nibble at the rough numbers above on HRR and operational costs.

This I agree with, yes. Id like to hear more than sloganeering & feel good statements from Foley &
Company, the NHL if & when they do announce this. Some solid, concrete for real plans & projections.

 

[psowrc]

Of course they do, but Washington has far more lucrative commercial activities than marijuana. It's really not the reason most people would visit or move here.





One man's food is another man's poison, yes.




You'll have a home opener, alright. The fix is in.

That's not the question I have however. I don't see anyone taking a nibble at the rough numbers above on HRR and operational costs.

Will the team fly long term? Who knows...I don't. But then I'm not a gambling man

 

[Fugu]

Will the team fly long term? Who knows...I don't. But then I'm not a gambling man

 

[psowrc]

This I agree with, yes. Id like to hear more than sloganeering & feel good statements from Foley &
Company, the NHL if & when they do announce this. Some solid, concrete for real plans & projections.

In all fairness to Foley - he hasn't been awarded anything to this point. No reason to divulge his financial game plan. Chipman/Thomson didn't say boo prior to having Atlanta drop in their lap.

At least the team in Vegas will have a restaurant sponsor based on today's information...

My uneducated opinion believes that once Gary makes his declaration the shoe will drop on exactly what corporate support Foley has mustered up in the past year.

 

[Fugu]

In all fairness to Foley - he hasn't been awarded anything to this point. No reason to divulge his financial game plan. Chipman/Thomson didn't say boo prior to having Atlanta drop in their lap.

At least the team in Vegas will have a restaurant sponsor based on today's information...

Actually, I remember seeing a pro forma by Chipman about 2-3 yrs before anyone thought Winnipeg had a chance. He started his campaign, for lack of a better word, after the cap system was put in place. If I recall the details correctly, his premise was that a Winnipeg team would be viable with the protection a cap would offer against both CAD fluctuation vs the USD, and escalating player costs that made it hard for smaller market teams to compete. He had some items penciled out, noting that the MTS Centre would be okay if they had a good avg ticket price and could add more suites.

 

[psowrc]

Actually, I remember seeing a pro forma by Chipman about 2-3 yrs before anyone thought Winnipeg had a chance. He started his campaign, for lack of a better word, after the cap system was put in place. If I recall the details correctly, his premise was that a Winnipeg team would be viable with the protection a cap would offer against both CAD fluctuation vs the USD, and escalating player costs that made it hard for smaller market teams to compete. He had some items penciled out, noting that the MTS Centre would be okay if they had a good avg ticket price and could add more suites.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which happens often - didn't Chipman provide the information because True North was deemed to be attempting to enter the game with less than a viable arena/corporate support/small market concerns? I don't believe he divulged the specifics of the corporate support - it was more to convince the league that the "little engine" could make it up the hill.

I don't believe Foley is in the same situation as he has an arena that is sufficient in size, has a larger population base to draw fans from, and has a known corporate dynasty in MGM that will provide support.

At the end of the day the only group Foley needs to provide financial information to is the NHL at this point. If they are satisfied then that is all that matters.

 

[Fugu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, which happens often - didn't Chipman provide the information because True North was deemed to be attempting to enter the game with less than a viable arena/corporate support/small market concerns? I don't believe he divulged the specifics of the corporate support - it was more to convince the league that the "little engine" could make it up the hill.

I don't believe Foley is in the same situation as he has an arena that is sufficient in size, has a larger population base to draw fans from, and has a known corporate dynasty in MGM that will provide support.

At the end of the day the only group Foley needs to provide financial information to is the NHL at this point. If they are satisfied then that is all that matters.

Yes, Winnipeg had to convince the NHL that the little engine could, under the cap system.

Looking at it retrospectively, if Vegas is on par with Winnipeg in HRR, they will indeed be very successful. There are others who have cited that larger market size upon which to draw as tipping the scales towards one market over another.... yet among the biggest in that group, Atlanta, was the team moved to Winnipeg.

The NHL is aware of the fact that for each $1 a US fan will spend, the Canadian fan is worth $1.3.

Food for thought.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/west-coast-bias-nhl-worried-tanking/

Friedman sits down with Foley and talks about Vegas team (video)

 

[Confucius]

I think what's most misunderstood about Vegas is that it's for sale. Everything here really is made to make money. Don't get me wrong, every city is like that with very few exceptions, capitalism and all. However, Vegas is unapologetic about it, almost to a fault.

It's a matter of survival. We're out here in the desert, after all. There's really no reason to be here unless we're making money.

Gaming is here because people want it. Sure, some can't handle it, but nobody's being bamboozled. The losses and the odds are known. Hell, other places are legalizing it because people want it.

[/b]Girls are dancing on stage shaking their goods because people want to see it, and they'll pay. [/b]

Repeat this a million times for everything people don't like about Vegas. It's here because people will pay for it.

We don't all have meetings and decide what we like and decide to do it whether or not it pisses the general public off. If there's a market for it, we'll do it. Anything for extra visitors and some more money coming to the desert.

This team is one of the few things I've ever seen living here where we'll need to sell it because we, as a city, really want it. I hope it works. I've got every reason to believe it will, just based on what I've seen this place do before.

Some people want to pay for sex.
Some people want to pay for drugs.
Some people wanted to pay for slaves and probably some still would.

What would you say about that?

 

[bert]

I personally dont understand Las Vegas as a market with how much Phoenix is struggling in the desert. Meanwhile hockey crazed Quebec city has a bran new rink.

I understand they want balance in the conferences but they should be going where there is actual demand.

 

[BattleBorn]

Some people want to pay for sex.
Some people want to pay for drugs.
Some people wanted to pay for slaves and probably some still would.

What would you say about that?

That if someone could make a buck legally selling drugs or sex to people from around the world, they'd do it here at a corporate level and with tighter controls and regulation, because people want it. Obviously, slavery is morally reprehensible, and isn't really an equivalent to the others.

I'm not a huge fan of gaming in general, but the people of Las Vegas are not chaining people into buses and requiring them to gamble when they get here. Just like Anheuser Busch doesn't force people to drink.

People have choices, a small percentage make bad ones when they come to Vegas. Doesn't make the whole place evil. It really doesn't even make the casinos evil, morally bankrupt, sleazy, or any other term with which you could describe them in a negative way.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

That if someone could make a buck legally selling drugs or sex to people from around the world, they'd do it here at a corporate level and with tighter controls and regulation, because people want it. Obviously, slavery is morally reprehensible, and isn't really an equivalent to the others.

I'm not a huge fan of gaming in general, but the people of Las Vegas are not chaining people into buses and requiring them to gamble when they get here. Just like Anheuser Busch doesn't force people to drink.

People have choices, a small percentage make bad ones when they come to Vegas. Doesn't make the whole place evil. It really doesn't even make the casinos evil, morally bankrupt, sleazy, or any other term with which you could describe them in a negative way.

The sad fact is in pretty much every state and province that allows gambling, and I might even include Vegas even with all the whales traveling from all over the world to gamble , they depend on that small percentage who are problem gamblers and addicts to earn a profit. Without them, they would lose money. It's a shame that the prosperity of the those involved in gambling depends on the misery of others and their families.

 

[Fugu]

That if someone could make a buck legally selling drugs or sex to people from around the world, they'd do it here at a corporate level and with tighter controls and regulation, because people want it. Obviously, slavery is morally reprehensible, and isn't really an equivalent to the others.

I'm not a huge fan of gaming in general, but the people of Las Vegas are not chaining people into buses and requiring them to gamble when they get here. Just like Anheuser Busch doesn't force people to drink.

People have choices, a small percentage make bad ones when they come to Vegas. Doesn't make the whole place evil. It really doesn't even make the casinos evil, morally bankrupt, sleazy, or any other term with which you could describe them in a negative way.

That's the point though. In the eyes of some it's sexy, and for others, it's sleazy. Or even other descriptors. Maybe we can accept the continuum and move on.

 

[Rob]

Was the ticket drive a success?

 

[BattleBorn]

That's the point though. In the eyes of some it's sexy, and for others, it's sleazy. Or even other descriptors. Maybe we can accept the continuum and move on.

I doubt anyone in a Leafs thread would accept that Toronto is a sleazy city because of what happens down in in the Financial District. They promise to make people millions, how many people have lost their money in the market? Sleazy.

That someone in a Rangers thread can't believe there's a team playing in Manhattan, right down the street from the corporations that basically stole so much money from so many people less than a decade ago and literally took millions of people's homes.

Someone in a Blues thread can't believe that a National Hockey League team plays two miles from the site where all the life stealing bottles of Budweiser in the midwest were brewed? What an idiot that guy is, kick him off the board!

It's much the same situation, just with a more "morally acceptable" form of economic impetus than Las Vegas.

It's fine, Vegas is Vegas. Continuum accepted and moving on.

 

[Jett Jagaar]

Was the ticket drive a success?

Yes

I personally dont understand Las Vegas as a market with how much Phoenix is struggling in the desert. Meanwhile hockey crazed Quebec city has a bran new rink.

I understand they want balance in the conferences but they should be going where there is actual demand.

The NHL wants it
A couple of billionaire owners want it
Over 10,000 people who put deposits on season tickets want it.

Actual demand met.

 

[Killion]

The sad fact is in pretty much every state and province that allows gambling, and I might even include Vegas even with all the whales traveling from all over the world to gamble , they depend on that small percentage who are problem gamblers and addicts to earn a profit. Without them, they would lose money. It's a shame that the prosperity of the those involved in gambling depends on the misery of others and their families.

Yes, but if you follow that line of reasoning then its also too bad that our economies & markets are based on oil, that western society as a whole is reliant upon fossil fuels and that for the past 100yrs tens of millions have died in wars & conflicts based upon the interests of the economic elites when in fact alternative fuel sources do exist. Diabolical criminal acts on a global scale in fact, like say Rockefellers Standard Oil (which became Esso) selling oil and oil by-products to German conglomerate IG Farben who in turn sold it to the Nazi's, oil that fueled the German War Machine, Wehrmachts bombing raids on London etc etc etc right through 1945 and much of it poured into vehicles manufactured by Ford & GM... or that IBM designed & manufactured; providing personnel standing right next to the SS Guards, there to "count inventory" with very early computer systems at Death Camps & so on & so forth.....

Or, the hundreds of millions of ruined lives & the social costs of alcoholism. What about the producers of those products? Or tobacco?... the major pharma's in releasing & marketing drug products, some used for mass inoculations of the population despite trials that show them to be unsafe but did so as stock values would crater if the truth was known?... just goes on & on Im afraid. So when it comes to gambling, Las Vegas, Talking Stick Casino Resort in Scottsdale AZ, Casino Rama outside of Orillia Ontario or wherever else, in the grand scheme of things merely an entertainment, an outlet for some and yes, just like drinking some will go over-board. But if you outlawed it, like Prohibition, your looking at whole new set of problems. Goes underground and like the War on Drugs, **** really hits the fan & youve just criminalized a huge % of the population because guess what? They want it, not gunna stop. Elliot Ness & Molly Hatchet couldnt stop the booze from flowing, wouldve been better had they never tried. Same thing with gambling. If people wanna go on Crusades, go after the real criminals. And they dont reside in Vegas. You'll find them in the ivory towers of Top 500's, in political office, on Major Market Streets from London to New York & all points in between...

I personally dont understand Las Vegas as a market with how much Phoenix is struggling in the desert. Meanwhile hockey crazed Quebec city has a bran new rink.

I understand they want balance in the conferences but they should be going where there is actual demand.

Yes, and I've pretty much convinced myself that they are fully cognizant of that fact & will include Quebec in this Expansion however if they dont?..... Then ya, I'll be throwing more than a few knives at the NHL though I wont do it at the expense of LV in tearing into that market in order to make my points & hit the targets. Id be outraged, seriously ticked off if they just Expanded X1 and or rolled the dice with Seattle while Quebec goes hungry. I simply cant imagine theyd be that stupid. Pretty darn sure the fix is in.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I personally dont understand Las Vegas as a market with how much Phoenix is struggling in the desert. Meanwhile hockey crazed Quebec city has a bran new rink.

It's because you erroneously think the desert is what's causing Arizona's struggles.