GDT: NHL Trade Deadline Thread

[Gurglesons]

There's so many concerns with this team that it's hard for me to be confident we can go all the way. Our goaltending is OK but often inconsistent, our team defense sucks, and even our offense has come and gone all year.

When we're on top of our game we can beat anyone, but we've had trouble consistently being there.

Letang keeps up his current level.

Sid and Jake play at the level we’ve seen the last two playoffs.

Murray continues to play at a .915-.920 level.

We draw Tampa followed by NYI followed by Toronto and cap it off against Winni / Calgary.

 

[Pancakes]

I could probably name you 3-4 games that encouraged me and 3 games doesn't even win you a series let alone a Cup. If it's not the defense, the offense goes stale. If it's not the team defense, the goalies will let something stupid in. If it's not team play, the powerplay will go stale. If it's not the powerplay, the PK will go stale. If it's none of that, someone will get injured. They can't hold leads. They can't come back from deficits.

It has been a strange season. That is for sure. I'm trying to think how would this team win 16 games and I don't see it and i'm insanely optimistic. But as long as we have a fighting chance, I will be cheering it on.

The trouble for me is I can't decide if it's a roster issue or a coaching one. Perhaps it's both.

But when we so consistently struggle with the issues you mention I'm inclined to think it's more roster-based in that we're probably just not talented enough to be much better than we are. Would a different coach get much more out of this blueline? Would a different coach get something more out of Kessel? Would a different coach fix Matt Murray's inconsistencies?

I'm not saying Sullivan is blameless. But I feel like our problems are more the player mix than anything. It's a good roster but no longer a great one. I feel like we're about in the standings where we ought to be, honestly. Maybe we should be a few points better. But we're not a Tampa Bay.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's so many concerns with this team that it's hard for me to be confident we can go all the way. Our goaltending is OK but often inconsistent, our team defense sucks, and even our offense has come and gone all year.

When we're on top of our game we can beat anyone, but we've had trouble consistently being there.

This team will breeze through the playoffs if Malkin, Hornqvist and Kessel get back to the levels they've been at in the past. I really think this site underrates the Penguins. With Crosby, Guentzel, Rust, Schultz, Murray, Letang and Dumoulin playing as well as they have recently, they just need Malkin, Kessel and maybe Hornqvist playing well to make a run.

 

[Pancakes]

Letang keeps up his current level.

Sid and Jake play at the level we’ve seen the last two playoffs.

Murray continues to play at a .915-.920 level.

We draw Tampa followed by NYI followed by Toronto and cap it off against Winni / Calgary.

Possible, but I wouldn't call it likely.

And man would that be a grueling playoff stretch. Isles always play us tough, Tampa is Tampa, and Toronto plays us tough too. Winnipeg we seem to do ok against weirdly enough and Calgary who knows what would happen with them.

 

[Ryder71]

The trouble for me is I can't decide if it's a roster issue or a coaching one. Perhaps it's both.

But when we so consistently struggle with the issues you mention I'm inclined to think it's more roster-based in that we're probably just not talented enough to be much better than we are. Would a different coach get much more out of this blueline? Would a different coach get something more out of Kessel? Would a different coach fix Matt Murray's inconsistencies?

I'm not saying Sullivan is blameless. But I feel like our problems are more the player mix than anything. It's a good roster but no longer a great one. I feel like we're about in the standings where we ought to be, honestly. Maybe we should be a few points better. But we're not a Tampa Bay.

Your last line says it all. It's not just our personnel, system or coaching, it's the fact that many teams have improved over the last couple of seasons and we've gone (at best) sideways.

 

[Pancakes]

This team will breeze through the playoffs if Malkin, Hornqvist and Kessel get back to the levels they've been at in the past. I really think this site underrates the Penguins. With Crosby, Guentzel, Rust, Murray, Letang and Dumoulin playing as well as they have recently, they just need Malkin, Kessel and maybe Hornqvist playing well to make a run.

I dunno about breeze through. We didn't breeze through even in 15-16 when our roster was playing at its absolute peak. We still almost lost to Washington and Tampa and that Pens team was insanely dominant with possession, scoring, goaltending...you name it. The playoffs are just such a grind, as you well know. Even when you dominate games in possession, it's never easy.

But I get your overall point. Of all the bottom seeds currently I think we are the one that could actually go on that type of run.

 

[Ryder71]

Letang keeps up his current level.

Sid and Jake play at the level we’ve seen the last two playoffs.

Murray continues to play at a .915-.920 level.

We draw Tampa followed by NYI followed by Toronto and cap it off against Winni / Calgary.

You think we're gonna beat TB then eventually Toronto? Wow!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dunno about breeze through. We didn't breeze through even in 15-16 when our roster was playing at its absolute peak. We still almost lost to Washington and Tampa and that Pens team was insanely dominant with possession, scoring, goaltending...you name it. The playoffs are just such a grind, as you well know. Even when you dominate games in possession, it's never easy.

But I get your overall point. Of all the bottom seeds currently I think we are the one that could actually go on that type of run.

I think the roster today is better than it was in 2015-2016. The mix was better on that 2016 team (namely the defense), but this roster is definitely better. If Malkin and Kessel didn't have poor playoff runs last year, I don't even think we'd be having this conversation, because the Penguins would have made the cup finals last year with Malkin and Kessel playing well.

I really think the problem with this team this year is that they don't care about the regular season, or don't have a sense of urgency in the regular season that other teams have. I don't think that's going to be a problem in the playoffs. Their problems this year are due to a lack of attention to detail, not being bad. I don't see a reason to think that will continue in the playoffs.

 

[Andy99]

This team will breeze through the playoffs if Malkin, Hornqvist and Kessel get back to the levels they've been at in the past. I really think this site underrates the Penguins. With Crosby, Guentzel, Rust, Schultz, Murray, Letang and Dumoulin playing as well as they have recently, they just need Malkin, Kessel and maybe Hornqvist playing well to make a run.

I would say Murray playing at 2016 and 2017 PO levels is more important than those players, but they’d certainly be second

 

[Gurglesons]

You think we're gonna beat TB then eventually Toronto? Wow!

If Letang plays at Norris level and Jake and Sid play at the level they have the last two playoffs with Murray playing at a .915-.920 level no team can beat us.

Matt Murray was a .905 in the Caps series last year.

No team in the East can match Letang if he is at Norris level / 2016 level Letang.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would say Murray playing at 2016 and 2017 PO levels is more important than those players, but they’d certainly be second

The Penguins would have made the cup finals last year had Malkin and Kessel played well in the playoffs last year, so I'm not sure I buy this. Murray had a 2.66 GAA in the 2nd round of the playoffs last year, that's plenty good enough for your team to win a series.

In the 4 games the Penguins lost in the playoffs last year, they lost by 1 goal 3 times (without including empty net) and 2 goals once. In those losses, Kessel and Malkin combined for 0 goals and 1 point.

 

[Ryder71]

If Letang plays at Norris level and Jake and Sid play at the level they have the last two playoffs with Murray playing at a .915-.920 level no team can beat us.

Matt Murray was a .905 in the Caps series last year.

And what if Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevskiy and Point continue to play as they have? Don't other teams have a say in it?

 

[Pancakes]

I think the roster today is better than it was in 2015-2016. The mix was better on that 2016 team (namely the defense), but this roster is definitely better. If Malkin and Kessel didn't have poor playoff runs last year, I don't even think we'd be having this conversation, because the Penguins would have made the cup finals last year with Malkin and Kessel playing well.

I really think the problem with this team this year is that they don't care about the regular season, or don't have a sense of urgency in the regular season that other teams have. I don't think that's going to be a problem in the playoffs. Their problems this year are due to a lack of attention to detail, not being bad. I don't see a reason to think that will continue in the playoffs.

I like our forward group better, but I'm not sure I like this defense better than that ones.

That said, the problem is our competition is in some ways stiffer as well. Maybe Washington is worse, but then again maybe not since we no longer have the psychological edge on them. Tampa is leaps better, and I think Toronto is a big threat. Boston always gives us a hard time too.

I'm skeptical we'll just figure it out in the playoffs in terms of team defense. But it's possible, I suppose.

 

[mpp9]

And what if Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevskiy and Point continue to play as they have? Don't other teams have a say in it?

I'll take Sid over Kucherov. Malkin over Stamkos. This Letang over Hedman. Murray's the wild card. He'll need to play at a high level like he did in 16 and 17.

 

[Andy99]

The Penguins would have made the cup finals last year had Malkin and Kessel played well in the playoffs last year, so I'm not sure I buy this. Murray had a 2.66 GAA in the 2nd round of the playoffs last year, that's plenty good enough for your team to win a series.

He wasn’t good enough...Holtby outplayed him...the history of the nhl playoffs pretty consistently shows the team with the goaltender playing better almost always advances...obviously how he’s playing depends in large part on how the other team’s goalie is playing

 

[Gurglesons]

And what if Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevskiy and Point continue to play as they have? Don't other teams have a say in it?

If Murray is playing at a .915-.920 level and Letang is a stud on D chances are one of Point or Stammer’s lines isn’t producing and if Jake and Sid are producing at a 2 PPG pace again chances are we are outscoring any issues.

Also Kuch has struggled a ton in the playoffs when it comes to eliminations.

I could see is splitting a Tampa series 1-1 and then taking it.

Also, Toronto doesn’t scare me. I’d be worried about meeting Carolina, Montreal, and Boston in the playoffs.

 

[molon labe]

We beat the Devils and Rangers... why does anyone think we need an upgrade on defense?

 

[Turin]

There’s a weird part of me that would rather play the Lightning than the Islanders. Which confirms that hockey is a stupid sport.

 

[Ryder71]

I'll take Sid over Kucherov. Malkin over Stamkos. This Letang over Hedman. Murray's the wild card. He'll need to play at a high level like he did in 16 and 17.

I hope you're right but very much doubt you are. Tampa is nightly rolling teams, even when they're not playing particularly well. They won last night 5-2 for fun and both Hedman and Point didn't play. They have depth, quality depth, elite goaltending, great special teams, and no Jack Johnson. If they get a rash of injuries that could be their undoing. Beyond that they'd be would be pretty tough to knock out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He wasn’t good enough...Holtby outplayed him...the history of the nhl playoffs pretty consistently shows the team with the goaltender playing better almost always advances...obviously how he’s playing depends in large part on how the other team’s goalie is playing

Malkin and Kessel had 0 goals and 1 point in the 4 losses to Washington last year, and 3 of those 4 losses were by 1 goal. Murray 100% played well enough for the team to win that series, the Penguins lost in the playoffs last year because they couldn't score. In the playoffs, goals against matter way more than save%. If you're expecting Murray to give up 2 or fewer goals every game or you're going to lose, it's not on the goalie if you do lose.

I like our forward group better, but I'm not sure I like this defense better than that ones.

The 2016 defense was better as a group, but I don't think it was better on paper. If this team was as committed to playing team defense as the 2016 team was, I don't think the results now would be worse than the results in 2016. Let's just say Dumoulin, Maatta and Letang are a wash (although Dumoulin and Letang are better now than they were in 2016 IMO), you have Schultz, Pettersson, Johnson, Riikola and Ruhwedel vs Daley, Cole, Lovejoy, reclamation project Schultz and Pouliot. I'd take Pettersson and Schultz over Daley and Cole, and at that point, having Lovejoy vs Johnson doesn't really matter.

The only black eye on this defense is Jack Johnson, this defense would be perfect on paper if they just had a right handed Cole on the bottom pair with Pettersson/Maatta.

 

[Ryder71]

If Murray is playing at a .915-.920 level and Letang is a stud on D chances are one of Point or Stammer’s lines isn’t producing and if Jake and Sid are producing at a 2 PPG pace again chances are we are outscoring any issues.

Also Kuch has struggled a ton in the playoffs when it comes to eliminations.

I could see is splitting a Tampa series 1-1 and then taking it.

Also, Toronto doesn’t scare me. I’d be worried about meeting Carolina, Montreal, and Boston in the playoffs.

I think Tor would destroy us, they have far too much speed IMO. I seriously doubt we could beat TB but we have no chance against the Leafs unless Matthews, Marner and Tavares miss the series. We can't match them. Although it's possible Boston could knock them out early.

 

[ChrisKuuuunitz]

I think we need LoveJoy back, we're not icing it enough lately

 

[Turin]

Malkin and Kessel had 0 goals and 1 point in the 4 losses to Washington last year, and 3 of those 4 losses were by 1 goal. Murray 100% played well enough for the team to win that series, the Penguins lost in the playoffs last year because they couldn't score. In the playoffs, goals against matter way more than save%. If you're expecting Murray to give up 2 or fewer goals every game or you're going to lose, it's not on the goalie if you do lose.



The 2016 defense was better as a group, but I don't think it was better on paper. If this team was as committed to playing team defense as the 2016 team was, I don't think the results now would be worse than the results in 2016. Let's just say Dumoulin, Maatta and Letang are a wash (although Dumoulin and Letang are better now than they were in 2016 IMO), you have Schultz, Pettersson, Johnson, Riikola and Ruhwedel vs Daley, Cole, Lovejoy, reclamation project Schultz and Pouliot. I'd take Pettersson and Schultz over Daley and Cole, and at that point, having Lovejoy vs Johnson doesn't really matter.

The only black eye on this defense is Jack Johnson, this defense would be perfect on paper if they just had a right handed Cole on the bottom pair with Pettersson/Maatta.

You honestly believe one of the best defensive teams in 2016 was only better than this bottom 10 defense because the team “tried more” at defending? Anything to ignore the black hole back there.

 

[DesertPenguin]

If Murray is playing at a .915-.920 level and Letang is a stud on D chances are one of Point or Stammer’s lines isn’t producing and if Jake and Sid are producing at a 2 PPG pace again chances are we are outscoring any issues.

Also Kuch has struggled a ton in the playoffs when it comes to eliminations.

I could see is splitting a Tampa series 1-1 and then taking it.

Also, Toronto doesn’t scare me. I’d be worried about meeting Carolina, Montreal, and Boston in the playoffs.

No team really scares me. This team can beat anyone if they are on. They have been off far more often than they've been on this season. Opponent is less important than whether this team is clicking internally.

That said you're right, we stack up better against high octane teams like Tampa and Toronto than we do against the more conservative, counter attack teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think Tor would destroy us, they have far too much speed IMO. I seriously doubt we could beat TB but we have no chance against the Leafs unless Matthews, Marner and Tavares miss the series. We can't match them. Although it's possible Boston could knock them out early.

Weird. I think we’d probably beat the Leafs in 5 or 6.

Sullivan is a better coach than Babcock. Did you see how he used Matthews last night with a Kadri injury. Complete joke.