NHL to Vegas part IV: Up to the BoG now (Expansion bid submitted)

[BattleBorn]

Today's Update

Important Update from Bill Foley


"Today, we made a formal presentation to the NHL Executive Committee in New York City as part of our effort to secure an NHL team in Las Vegas. This meeting was the result of successfully completing three previous phases of the expansion application process. We made it to this point because of the passionate fans that helped us secure more than 13,500 season ticket deposits and commitments. As we wait for a final decision, I want to thank the NHL for this opportunity and the season ticket holders who have clearly demonstrated that Vegas Wants Hockey!"


-Bill Foley

Looks like 13,500 is the number. It's been stalled there for a few months.

They haven't been pushing much/at all since hitting 10,000 pre-corporate sales, though.

 

[BattleBorn]

And the local news story on the meeting:

Foley pitches vision for Vegas team to NHL

By Steve Carp
Las Vegas Review-Journal
Now the wait begins.

Bill Foley, the billionaire businessman who is attempting to bring major league professional sports to Las Vegas sold his vision for a National Hockey League team for the city Tuesday in front of the NHL's Board of Governors executive committee in New York. Foley spent approximately 30 minutes in his presentation, pointing to the fact Las Vegas has already secured nearly 14,000 deposits on season tickets, that it has a $375 million, state-of-the-art arena that is on target to be completed by April and will seat 17,500 for hockey and that the city's economy is healthy and ready to support the NHL.

"We've got asked a lot of really good questions," Foley told reporters after the meeting. "We had the answers to all the questions. Pretty animated. It was interesting."

Foley also posted a statement on his Vegaswantshockey.com website: "Today, we made a formal presentation to the NHL Executive Committee in New York City as part of our effort to secure an NHL team in Las Vegas. This meeting was the result of successfully completing three previous phases of the expansion application process. We made it to this point because of the passionate fans that helped us secure more than 13,500 season ticket deposits and commitments. As we wait for a final decision, I want to thank the NHL for this opportunity and the season ticket holders who have clearly demonstrated that Vegas Wants Hockey!"

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey-vegas/foley-pitches-vision-vegas-team-nhl

Looks like 14,000 is the figure on this one.

 

[sabresfan65]

And the local news story on the meeting:



http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey-vegas/foley-pitches-vision-vegas-team-nhl

Looks like 14,000 is the figure on this one.

I think the difference is spin. Foley wants to show a firm commitment and not rounding up and says "over 13,500", while the paper looks at it and says "almost 14,000".

 

[chizzler]

600million to join the NHL? Bettman should be ashamed of asking this ludicrous price, when Arizona is going to go for much cheaper. No wonder Allen in Seattle gave him the finger. He didn't manipulate him.

 

[GuelphStormer]

600million to join the NHL? Bettman should be ashamed of asking this ludicrous price, when Arizona is going to go for much cheaper. No wonder Allen in Seattle gave him the finger. He didn't manipulate him.

are people who buy expensive Bentleys "manipulated"? or are they just rich people who want a Bentley and can afford to buy one?

 

[Killion]

600million to join the NHL? Bettman should be ashamed of asking this ludicrous price, when Arizona is going to go for much cheaper. No wonder Allen in Seattle gave him the finger. He didn't manipulate him.

are people who buy expensive Bentleys "manipulated"? or are they just rich people who want a Bentley and can afford to buy one?

Well, guys, your talking about 2 different types of buyers. On the one hand Corporate (like a Rogers/Bell, Comcast etc) and on the other Individual (Vinik, Viola, Gaglardi etc). Paul Allen in Portland has had a considerable amount of experience in sports ownership, facility development & management, has an experienced executive team in place upon who he leaves pretty much in charge to do their jobs without interference. Several with a considerable amount of NHL experience. That's a Corporate culture, and while he is a sort of Daddy Warbucks like Ilitch in Detroit, he leaves most of the decision making from player personnel to any number of business issues up to the high priced talent he's hired. Corporate. He's already got his toys. If an NHL teams gunna be added then the purchase price has to make sense.... Paul Allens group did fully scope out the Coyotes over several months, pouring over the teams & leagues financials in 2013. They determined that $170M simply didnt pencil out & they took into account as well the promise of substantial increases that were then on the way with Rogers & NBC. Quebecor's pursuit of a franchise is corporately driven; the Foley/Maloof bid is a vanity purchase. They wanna drive a Bentley, prepared to pay for it, buy's prestige & validation for the city they figure (cant acquire an NBA franchise but Im damn certain thats what their eventually hoping for, get the NHL in there, dispel all the notions of transience, the stigma of Sin City etc), so their buying on emotion & justifying it with logic after the fact. You can come up with all kinds of creative & lengthy cases of logic in justifying Foley & the Maloofs paying through the teeth for an NHL franchise for Vegas. I think they have bigger ambitions but its all ego driven. Bit of a throwback to the early 21st & 20th Centuries. Individuals owning sports franchises.

 

[powerstuck]

600million to join the NHL? Bettman should be ashamed of asking this ludicrous price, when Arizona is going to go for much cheaper. No wonder Allen in Seattle gave him the finger. He didn't manipulate him.

Thing is, if Allen gave finger to NHL, it may have been the last step to make sure he will never ever be part of the super select club of NHL owners.

Ask Jim Balsillie how his attempt at obtaining an NHL franchise at all costs and not playing by NHL rules and paying NHL price ended up for him.

 

[chizzler]

Thing is, if Allen gave finger to NHL, it may have been the last step to make sure he will never ever be part of the super select club of NHL owners.

Ask Jim Balsillie how his attempt at obtaining an NHL franchise at all costs and not playing by NHL rules and paying NHL price ended up for him.

I don't think Allen is going to lose any sleep on this. He's no dummy.

 

[Fugu]

Well, guys, your talking about 2 different types of buyers. On the one hand Corporate (like a Rogers/Bell, Comcast etc) and on the other Individual (Vinik, Viola, Gaglardi etc). Paul Allen in Portland has had a considerable amount of experience in sports ownership, facility development & management, has an experienced executive team in place upon who he leaves pretty much in charge to do their jobs without interference. Several with a considerable amount of NHL experience. That's a Corporate culture, and while he is a sort of Daddy Warbucks like Ilitch in Detroit, he leaves most of the decision making from player personnel to any number of business issues up to the high priced talent he's hired. Corporate. He's already got his toys. If an NHL teams gunna be added then the purchase price has to make sense.... Paul Allens group did fully scope out the Coyotes over several months, pouring over the teams & leagues financials in 2013. They determined that $170M simply didnt pencil out & they took into account as well the promise of substantial increases that were then on the way with Rogers & NBC. Quebecor's pursuit of a franchise is corporately driven; the Foley/Maloof bid is a vanity purchase. They wanna drive a Bentley, prepared to pay for it, buy's prestige & validation for the city they figure (cant acquire an NBA franchise but Im damn certain thats what their eventually hoping for, get the NHL in there, dispel all the notions of transience, the stigma of Sin City etc), so their buying on emotion & justifying it with logic after the fact. You can come up with all kinds of creative & lengthy cases of logic in justifying Foley & the Maloofs paying through the teeth for an NHL franchise for Vegas. I think they have bigger ambitions but its all ego driven. Bit of a throwback to the early 21st & 20th Centuries. Individuals owning sports franchises.

Thing is, if Allen gave finger to NHL, it may have been the last step to make sure he will never ever be part of the super select club of NHL owners.

Ask Jim Balsillie how his attempt at obtaining an NHL franchise at all costs and not playing by NHL rules and paying NHL price ended up for him.

A newspaper out of Portland reported that the Trailblazers bid $200 MM, while RayB offered $225 MM for a Seattle relocation.

So not really "the finger" but indicative of the market value at that time and in their respective markets.

 

[BattleBorn]

Resurrection:

Foley just stated he expects the announcement in December.

He's on Sports Book Radio right now.

 

[BattleBorn]

Also, link to the stream:

http://173.193.205.96:2199/player/1155dbdf7f2c1d4

Foley never expected Seattle. "They don't have an arena, Key Arena stinks for basketball and is even worse for hockey. They need an arena."

 

[Mightygoose]

Resurrection:

Foley just stated he expects the announcement in December.

He's on Sports Book Radio right now.

Resurrection? I don't think it was even dead

If he's using the word 'expects' as opposed to 'hopeful', I think it's looking good for you guys

 

[BattleBorn]

Resurrection? I don't think it was even dead

I meant the thread.

 

[Mightygoose]

I meant the thread.

Got it!

I always felt the thread was sleeping.

Interesting comments from him re: Seattle. He may have not expected anything but I have a feeling the league had different hopes.

Sounds like 'Black Knights' will be rising soon

 

[Killion]

Yeah. Key word there is he expects an announcement of the implementation of a Las Vegas NHL hockey team. Not sitting waiting for approval. Implementation. Execution. Launch. Im convinced they along with QC long since approved.

 

[BattleBorn]

Yeah. Key word there is he expects to receive approval of the implementation of NHL hockey in Vegas.

Yeah, whatcha think?

 

[BattleBorn]

Summary:

"The league said, 'I know you think you've got 150 things to do, you've got 150 things plus 200 and you don't know what the 200 are.'"

Q: Would this have been done by now if Quebec wasn't involved?
A: No comment.

 

[Killion]

Yeah, whatcha think?

I think he's going to have to learn how to speak, choose his words more carefully seeing as how he'll now be working with the NHL. He's gunna hafta become a lot more oblique. Enigmatic. Thats what I think.

 

[Killion]

"The league said, 'I know you think you've got 150 things to do, you've got 150 things plus 200 and you don't know what the 200 are.'"

Ooooo. Scary. Sounds like something Frat Boys would tell an initiate to the Hellfire Club or something. Kappa Tappa Kegga. Gimme a break.

 

[BattleBorn]

I think he's going to have to learn how to speak, choose his words more carefully seeing as how he'll now be working with the NHL. He's gunna hafta become a lot more oblique. Enigmatic. Thats what I think.

Obviously I was listening and heard some stuff others didn't. I was taken by what I perceived was his reluctance to say "expansion."

I was wondering if that's what you were saying too.

 

[Killion]

I was wondering if that's what you were saying too.

No, no I dont usually mince words.

 

[BattleBorn]

So I was trying to recollect everything that's happened timeline wise as pertains to the relationship between LV and Arizona, if there is one at all.

As a disclaimer, this is not an attempt to act "vultureish," just try to clear things up in my head.

August-October 2014: Province Article: There will be teams in Seattle, Vegas, QC, GTA2. World snickers.

Nov 2014: New York Post: Foley/Maloof is the league preferred owner of an NHL franchise in Las Vegas.

Dec 2014: Andrew Barroway becomes majority owner of the Coyotes.

Feb 2015: Las Vegas Ticket Drive Starts

March 2015: 8,000 deposits

April 2015: First section sells out (VWH: expect an announcement about a team in June.)

May 2015: 11,500 deposits, Deposits opened to corporations.

June(ish): VWH.com 2016-2017 language is removed from site.

June 2015: Glendale Drama

June 2015: VegasWantsHockey Changes name to Foley/Maloof Sports & Entertainment LLC, an LLC formed in January 2015.

June 13: 13,200 deposits

June 15 2015: Barroway Out as majority owner of the Coyotes.

June 24: BoG Meeting in Las Vegas, Expansion timeline changes.

July 1 2015: New York Post: Foley in as owner of Coyotes, will move the team to Vegas for 2016-2017

July 1-2 2015: NHL: Story is crap.

July 2: 13,500 deposits

Mid July: Foley/Maloof Sports & Entertainment is no longer on the VWH site, replaced by Black Knight Sports & Entertainment.

Mid July (I think): VWH/Black Knight moves into permanent offices.

July 23: Glendale Drama finished.

July 2015: League: 17-18 is the earliest for expansion.

July 2015: Application in.

[Radio Silence as the application process plays out]

Recently: 2016-2017 language returns to VWH site.

At least that's how I recall it going down, a couple dates may be wrong.



Anyone got anything else to add, corrections, or any thoughts on the timeline? I'd love to remove the sneaking suspicion that the Coyotes will be playing here from my mind and any help is appreciated.

 

[Killion]

Anyone got anything else to add, corrections, or any thoughts on the timeline? I'd love to remove the sneaking suspicion that the Coyotes will be playing here from my mind and any help is appreciated.

Timeline looks great. Lots more jetsom floatsom you coulda added but nope, those are the salient dates & points, events & happenings. And yes, while it does make sense on a number of levels, plausible theory, I just dont see the NHL switching canoes mid-stream exchanging Foleys brand new $500M model for one that is used & has been badly abused with what must be close to $300M in bills to be paid. Selling Foley (and QC) an Expansion Franchise, those dollars are unencumbered; they sell him the Coyotes, at least $300M is gone to pay-off the creditors who have been propping the franchise up since 2009. So the choice is $500M in free money split 30 ways or I suppose they could charge Vegas (or QC for that matter) $500M, $200M of which is a Relo Fee in order to maintain the artificiality in claiming Expansion Fee's, average franchise valuation, that the new reality = $500M. Honestly, I have no idea what they have planned for the Coyotes, what their hoping for if anything locally, but it wouldnt surprise me if the club stays right where it is through to the conclusion of the 2017 season. Then moved to either the PNW or goodness only knows. But I dont see the NHL checkmating themselves with Nevada or Quebec with a Relo.

 

[BattleBorn]

This whole theory is developed under the guise that expansion is actually changing canoes midstream, and that the whole plan was launched to eliminate the issues in Arizona.

I don't know who guaranteed all the money for propping up the Arizona Coyotes, but I've got a sneaking suspicion the personal wealth of the current ownership group wouldn't be sufficient to make anyone capable of loaning that type of money with the business model that exists comfortable without something more.

I've got to claim ignorance to a lot of the inner workings of the debt structure of the operation, but I imagine there's a lot of communal money or guarantees entangled in that debt. Meaning that taking IceArizona into bankruptcy after a sale wouldn't be likely to clear the debt once the ownership group's personal guarantees aren't enough to cover the debt. I personally doubt the ownership group would be likely to put their entire fortunes up as a potential repayment method if it all went south anyways. Someone/something else is on the line, they've got to be.

However, let's say there's no personal guarantees from the owners or any guarantee from any other entity, if the team's valuation is 300MM (which was the Barroway valuation if I remember correctly) they're likely going to run out of cash/debt availability soon anyways, which would likely require a situation where money is needed to be thrown into the mix to continue servicing the already existing debt as well as make payroll, etc.

All of this to say that selling the whole deal to someone (Foley, or Quebecor for that matter) that could eliminate that likely wouldn't be a loss of 500MM unencumbered dollars to other owners, but an elimination of the risk associated with the situation as it exists right now and the potential of additional monetary requirements to keep the thing floating.

Then again, I could be way off. I'm completely open to the idea that I don't know enough to make these statements and that I relate these issues a little too much to my personal business dealings.

 

[Killion]

I don't know who guaranteed all the money for propping up the Arizona Coyotes.... However, let's say there's no personal guarantees from the owners or any guarantee from any other entity....

You pretty much have to toss general policies & guidelines under which the NHL generally operates in the case of the Coyotes right out the window. Previous or even contemporaneous sales be it a stay-put, relo or expansion. The league itself & Foretress investments who's money was guaranteed by the City of Glendale financed the transaction, the majority owner in 2013 reputedly dropping around $40M, a disparate group of minority owners in for anywhere from $500,000 ~ to maybe a million, two million a piece. The league itself the entity ultimately that guaranteed the loan from Fortress & who also lent IceArizona $85M interest free for 5yrs. Beyond convoluted. Its my belief IA is simply a Dummy Corporation. That the league still owns & controls the franchise. Barroway, essentially a Puppet/Stooge brought in to sign off on the newly acquired LOC from Citi-Bank as the minority & majority shareholders were all Canadians & would be subject to paying capital gains taxes to Revenue Canada when the NHL conflated that franchises valuation to $305M.

( Note: I dont believe Barroway nor anyone else attached has provided, not required to provide personal guarantee's, indeed, whatever theyve put in guaranteed to be returned by the NHL, the league co-signatories on the loan/LOC. Just giving the impression of partial owner financed purchase. A false front, black operation, pretend sale, pretend owners. League bought themselves 5yrs. Wait for Seattle or whomever to come on-line. Usually an owner is required to sign a Consent Form Guaranteeing he'll cover uncapped losses into perpetuity, cant claim BK, required to put down 50% cash, 50% solid gold credit on the balance, show cash & credit access of no less than 50% of the franchises sale price to cover costs & losses moving forward. )

Citi-Bank had a minimum threshold per NHL club in terms of valuation which the Coyotes didnt even come close to meeting but as the NHL's backing that LOC, they were indulged by the bank in presenting the fiction that the Arizona Coyotes were worth that much & thus passed the bar. So between Glendales $15M per annum, the Coyotes receiving maximum uncapped Revenue Sharing proceeds, NHL Development Funds, their share of Broadcast Revenues & Central Revenues, whatever they could pickup in gate receipts, sponsorships, local broadcast revenues & so on, a complete & utter welfare case but one that could hang on by its fingernails almost indefinitely. But if just one piece of the false foundation gets kicked from asunder as happened with Glendale voiding the Lease, come crashing down like a tarpaper shack in a hurricane. This is the NHL's team & they can underwrite the teams losses for some time to come even without the GRA Mgmnt Contract. They own it. LeBlanc & all the rest of them just Bad Actors & Disinformation Officers. The league clearly awaiting an opening in Seattle or wherever, selling & moving the team at the most opportune time. That card however I dont think folds into the hands their dealing to Quebec or Nevada. Could be totally wrong of course. Was wrong about Atlanta. Couldnt believe theyd be so stupid as to let that unwind & lose that key market again but there ya go.