NHL to Seattle Volume XV - Moving the Expansion Needle [Upd: 9/24 Arena Reno. Unanimously Approved]

[KevFu]

You guys, with your "geography" and "travel" and "travel cost" as if any of that is important or actually matters.

The division assignment isn't going to dictate more/less travel mileage. It's not going inconvenience anyone WRT scheduling.

Arena availability is going to dictate travel schedule quirks more than divisional alignment. This isn't like college basketball non-major conference schedules where you have Thursday/Saturday games and 18 games are over 10 weeks, so there's travel partners and SEA/VAN are going to COL/ARZ the same weekend and then five weeks later COL/ARZ are going to visit SEA/VAN.

The schedule is far more "random" and changes every year. If you look at the Pacific and Central’s road trips to ARZ and COL, they’re basically non-formulaic piles of non-sense. There’s no mathematical construct at play.

You want to keep Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary together because of the Canadian hockey TV contract is going to want six VAN vs EDM/CAL games instead of four.

Are there any negative financial aspects for ARZ shifting to the Central?
Are there any positive financial aspects for ARZ shifting to the Central?

If there are, I'd say move VGK instead of ARZ to the Central.

 

[Hynh]

The last time the NHL realigned, the NHLPA was involved. That's the party that cares the most about proximity and my gut is that Edmonton/Calgary is way better for them in the Pacific

 

[gstommylee]

Coyotes already have one of the longest travel routes in the league (second to San Jose iirc) Take away their four closest cities and you’re only making it worse.

So you rather make travel distance longer for half the league as one puts it just for 1 team.

Look at the eastern conference and how Screwed Florida and Tampa Bay are in terms of divisional game travel.

 

[TheLegend]

So you rather make travel distance longer for half the league as one puts it just for 1 team.

Look at the eastern conference and how Screwed Florida and Tampa Bay are in terms of divisional game travel.

Did you not understand what I said.

We’re already the first or second longest traveling team in the league and you want to propose we go even farther. PLUS take away games from our longest running rivals.

 

[Hynh]

Coyotes already have one of the longest travel routes in the league (second to San Jose iirc) Take away their four closest cities and you’re only making it worse.

That varies depending on the year because that number is based on whatever randomness the schedule spits out. Edmonton and Calgary are also routinely at the top of those lists.

NHL Travel Miles: The 2017-18 Super Schedule!
The 2016-2017 Super Schedule

 

[gstommylee]

Did you not understand what I said.

We’re already the first or second longest traveling team in the league and you want to propose we go even farther. PLUS take away games from our longest running rivals.

Yes i read what you said and there is no perfect solution to it. Why should the NHL screw half its league just for 1 team? NHL does what best for all teams but there is no way to make everyone happy here.

I don't see why the NHL should make all 15 other teams travel further just for 1 team?

 

[MNNumbers]

Yes i read what you said and there is no perfect solution to it. Why should the NHL screw half its league just for 1 team? NHL does what best for all teams but there is no way to make everyone happy here.

I don't see why the NHL should make all 15 other teams travel further just for 1 team?

How about the NHL makes everyone happy and allows Edwards and whatever his name is to sell the Flames to Houston?

 

[gstommylee]

How about the NHL makes everyone happy and allows Edwards and whatever his name is to sell the Flames to Houston?

Who says the flames want to sell the team?

 

[MNNumbers]

Who says the flames want to sell the team?

Nobody that I have heard of yet. However, it's quite obvious that they are rather upset with the city of Calgary and are frustrated in their efforts to secure funding for a new stadium.

That's the reason I brought it up.

You have no idea what might happen in Phoenix next summer. Neither do I.
You have no idea what might happen in Calgary. Neither do I.

But, Bettman does.

His words can be taken simply as a dodge.

That's why I think the wise thing to do here is say, "Well, if things remain as they are, there are 2 options and we are not sure exactly which course the league would take..." And, to also say, "But, I'll be happy to wait and see about developments in the interim...."

 

[gstommylee]

Nobody that I have heard of yet. However, it's quite obvious that they are rather upset with the city of Calgary and are frustrated in their efforts to secure funding for a new stadium.

That's the reason I brought it up.

You have no idea what might happen in Phoenix next summer. Neither do I.
You have no idea what might happen in Calgary. Neither do I.

But, Bettman does.

His words can be taken simply as a dodge.

That's why I think the wise thing to do here is say, "Well, if things remain as they are, there are 2 options and we are not sure exactly which course the league would take..." And, to also say, "But, I'll be happy to wait and see about developments in the interim...."

Flames are in a much better shape and things will eventually get done there. But the coyotes? They need a billionaire investor and a new arena if they want to remain there. Moving the flames does nothing to actually address the much larger issue than that is of the coyotes.

 

[Mightygoose]

Many said when the league went to the 14-16 alignment, it was done to accommodate 2 in the west and the locations were pre determined.

If this was true then there would have been something in place already in terms of who goes where. If Seattle applied at the same time as Vegas and they both got in, perhaps VGK doesn't go to the Pacific in the first place. If it's about keeping rivalies intact then Vegas to Central makes sense

Otherwise, I would agree it's a 50/50 decision between AZ to the central or the Albeta teams/Coloado swap. Keep in mind if alignment and expansion was pre determined back in 2013, Airzona's future was still cloudy like it is today. Also, the Flames didn't have issues with the city back then either....on some level they don't today. Makes moving AZ to the Central makes sense as it can accommodate them staying or going.

 

[MNNumbers]

Flames are in a much better shape and things will eventually get done there. But the coyotes? They need a billionaire investor and a new arena if they want to remain there. Moving the flames does nothing to actually address the much larger issue than that is of the coyotes.

However, if Flames move, then the present argument about alignment after Seattle completely goes away, doesn't it? They become the 8th team in the Central and no one has to move at all.

Alternatively, if the Coyote moves over there, the same logic applies.

That's why the best answer is to wait and not solve problems today which may not still be the problems in the day that they need to be solved.

 

[gstommylee]

Many said when the league went to the 14-16 alignment, it was done to accommodate 2 in the west and the locations were pre determined.

If this was true then there would have been something in place already in terms of who goes where. If Seattle applied at the same time as Vegas and they both got in, perhaps VGK doesn't go to the Pacific in the first place. If it's about keeping rivalies intact then Vegas to Central makes sense

Otherwise, I would agree it's a 50/50 decision between AZ to the central or the Albeta teams/Coloado swap. Keep in mind if alignment and expansion was pre determined back in 2013, Airzona's future was still cloudy like it is today. Also, the Flames didn't have issues with the city back then either....on some level they don't today. Makes moving AZ to the Central makes sense as it can accommodate them staying or going.

Vegas is more closer to the rest of the pacific teams than Arizona is.

I just don't see why NHL should just ignore what's best for the entire conference just for one team. It just makes no sense.

 

[BattleBorn]

I see almost zero possibility of a Pacific Time Zone team going to the Central Division.

The teams of the Eastern Conference are all in the Eastern Conference because they're all in the Eastern Time Zone. Don't think you can make that happen, and then, shortly thereafter, ask the Central Division to span three of four time zones as a single division.

 

[gstommylee]

However, if Flames move, then the present argument about alignment after Seattle completely goes away, doesn't it? They become the 8th team in the Central and no one has to move at all.

Alternatively, if the Coyote moves over there, the same logic applies.

That's why the best answer is to wait and not solve problems today which may not still be the problems in the day that they need to be solved.

It wouldn't be much of a issue if there were more than 1 western relocation destination but houston is currently the only one. Now if Portland had a group willing to throw some cash for a team that would be different.

I see almost zero possibility of a Pacific Time Zone team going to the Central Division.

The teams of the Eastern Conference are all in the Eastern Conference because they're all in the Eastern Time Zone. Don't think you can make that happen, and then, shortly thereafter, ask the Central Division to span three of four time zones as a single division.

Which pacific time zone team are you talking about? alberta teams, colorado and arizona are mountain time zone. Only thing is Arizona doesn't follow daylight savings.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Its cause Seattle is closer to alberta than they are of California and arizona.

it makes no sense to move a team that's further east than alberta teams.

sorry but coyotes is odd team out. I don't hate them it just doesn't make sense. To do a massive shift like that and screw multiple teams.

There is no perfect alignment but why make it worse than it needs to be just cause of 1 team.

Coyotes are literally right next to 3 NHL teams but somehow they are the odd team out?

It makes sense to have Jets, Flames and Oilers in the same division. Canucks can sustain losing Flames and Oilers from its division because it gains Seattle.

Plus its probably easier for travel for Flames and Oilers to fly to Winnipeg and Minnesota vs LA, Anaheim and Vegas.

 

[Mightygoose]

The Coyotes could be the odd team out simply because they are..odd in a sense that 1 is an odd number.

Since politics will ultimately decide who goes where. Flames and Oilers will have 2 votes compared to the one the Coyotes will have.

As most teams will vote for their own interests first and foremost, I doubt enough will care either way. Can't the LAs and Anaheims of the world fighting hard to keep the Coyotes in their division. The addition of Vegas keeps a rival close at the end of the day.

Plus if the Coyotes are sold, even to owners to keep them in Arizona. Having them agree to a move to the Central can be made a condition of the sale, taking away a potential no vote.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Which pacific time zone team are you talking about? alberta teams, colorado and arizona are mountain time zone. Only thing is Arizona doesn't follow daylight savings.

All true.

Your assignment is to google when daylight savings time starts and ends, and then compare that to when the NHL season starts and ends. And from that calculate what percentage of the season Arizona is effectively in the Pacific Time Zone (like right now. GMT-7) It's educational, seriously.

Coyotes are literally right next to 3 NHL teams but somehow they are the odd team out?

It makes sense to have Jets, Flames and Oilers in the same division. Canucks can sustain losing Flames and Oilers from its division because it gains Seattle.

Plus its probably easier for travel for Flames and Oilers to fly to Winnipeg and Minnesota vs LA, Anaheim and Vegas.

BINGO!! X3

 

[gstommylee]

All true.

Your assignment is to google when daylight savings time starts and ends, and then compare that to when the NHL season starts and ends. And from that calculate what percentage of the season Arizona is effectively in the Pacific Time Zone (like right now. GMT-7) It's educational, seriously.



BINGO!! X3

So gonna let day savings dictate what the NHL can or can't do i don't think so.

So Bettman is gonna tell half the league well screw you i am gonna make you travel further just for 1 team. Remember half the team that people here want the NHL to screw it is betman's boss.

super majority of the owners aren't going to vote to screw half the league just over 1 club. Its not going to happen.

 

[Hynh]

If the current scheduling is maintained there's hardly any difference to being in one division or the other. No matter where you put Arizona 77/82 of the games they need to play will be the same.

Source	Number of teams	Times per year	Total
Opposite conference	16	2	32
Same conference	15	3	45
Divisional	5	1	5
			82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Expand to 34 teams and cut the season to 80 games and you can get rid of divisions altogether, just East and West.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

That's exactly what I mean. It's a 50/50 proposition. I can see that. You can see that. Everyone here can see that.

Except Tommy.

You're right. I give up. *sigh* anyway...... Welcome to the league, most probably.

 

[MNNumbers]

If the current scheduling is maintained there's hardly any difference to being in one division or the other. No matter where you put Arizona 77/82 of the games they need to play will be the same.

Source	Number of teams	Times per year	Total
Opposite conference	16	2	32
Same conference	15	3	45
Divisional	5	1	5
			82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Expand to 34 teams and cut the season to 80 games and you can get rid of divisions altogether, just East and West.

I'm not sure, but I think the schedule will go to home/away with everyone, and all the rest on division. That would be 20 games different, then

 

[KevFu]

Many said when the league went to the 14-16 alignment, it was done to accommodate 2 in the west and the locations were pre determined.

If this was true then there would have been something in place already in terms of who goes where. If Seattle applied at the same time as Vegas and they both got in, perhaps VGK doesn't go to the Pacific in the first place. If it's about keeping rivalies intact then Vegas to Central makes sense

Otherwise, I would agree it's a 50/50 decision between AZ to the central or the Albeta teams/Coloado swap. Keep in mind if alignment and expansion was pre determined back in 2013, Airzona's future was still cloudy like it is today. Also, the Flames didn't have issues with the city back then either....on some level they don't today. Makes moving AZ to the Central makes sense as it can accommodate them staying or going.

I think it would wasn't "pre-determined" who the west would be. I think they knew one and were trying to find the second when they went to 16-14.

And I think that the NHL will be working with Houston really soon, and their ideal situation is ARZ/CAL/OTT are totally good financially, Houston and Quebec make for 34 teams with East-West balance.

 

[gstommylee]

I think it would wasn't "pre-determined" who the west would be. I think they knew one and were trying to find the second when they went to 16-14.

And I think that the NHL will be working with Houston really soon, and their ideal situation is ARZ/CAL/OTT are totally good financially, Houston and Quebec make for 34 teams with East-West balance.

What makes you think NHL actually want to go 34 teams....

Houston isn't going to be paying 650m+ and neither is Quebec in US exchange rate. And there was no actually confirmation that Quebec is at 500m from their last bid. That's just speculation.

 

[gstommylee]

I'm working on a chart that compares the distance for division and interconference for distance travel. Haven't decided if i am going to do it for all 16 teams or just the 4 teams. its time consuming to get miles for all each of the west conference teams vs the 15 other western conference teams.

Obviously the north teams will travel less to northern cities and travel more for southern teams and vice versa.

But the one to look at is colorado in pacific vs in Central since that team is in the middle geographically.
Please bare in mind that with some teams like nashvile will travel further to edmonton and Calgary than Arizona and colorado in a divisional game.