NHL to review Pride tape use by Coyotes’ Travis Dermott as possible violation of ban

[TheLegend]

I wouldn't go that far, they look good for PR reasons while sometimes not really a lot of money for charity.

Of course it’s for PR… but some people think this is just another money grab just for the teams.

 

[norrisnick]

How about don't tell me anything. I'm not interested in this type of inclusivity in this fashion when it comes to sports. Period.

And yet you choose to include yourself in this conversation when the rest of us aren't interested. Semicolon.

 

[Mike C]

And yet you choose to include yourself in this conversation when the rest of us aren't interested. Semicolon.

i was just answering someone's question of when i thought hockey was just hockey. now I know you are the shop steward and can speak loud and proud for "the rest of us"

 

[TheLegend]

How about don't tell me anything. I'm not interested in this type of inclusivity in this fashion when it comes to sports. Period.

Sounds like you’d be a LOT happier sitting around a frozen pond watching hockey in its purest form.

 

[Mike C]

Sounds like you’d be a LOT happier sitting around a frozen pond watching hockey in its purest form.

I was a LOT happier before rainbow became an NHL issue. I follow sports for many reasons. Social justice causes isn't one of them.

 

[Mike C]

Or, you know, just let the player deal with the consequences of his own decision himself.

Or don't put the player in that position in the first place.

 

[famicommander]

Or don't put the player in that position in the first place.

If their beliefs are that important to them the absolute least they could do is put their faces, their names, and their own words right out in front of them.

Basically, what this comes down to is the seven guys who got singled out knew exactly what the reaction to their decision would be and they chose to make that decision anyway while at the same time asking the NHL to absorb literally all of the consequences of said decision. It's an act of staggering cowardice.

 

[Mike C]

If their beliefs are that important to them the absolute least they could do is put their faces, their names, and their own words right out in front of them.

Basically, what this comes down to is the seven guys who got singled out knew exactly what the reaction to their decision would be and they chose to make that decision anyway while at the same time asking the NHL to absorb literally all of the consequences of said decision. It's an act of staggering cowardice.

Your point is understood. My position is that this type of stuff should be left outside the arenas and stadiums.

Several MLB players got cut for attaching their names to their beliefs and it's an untenable position for employees to be in

If the league wants to take a stand, donate financially to whatever cause but don't put the rank and file in a spot to choose a side that has nothing to do with what they were hired for

 

[famicommander]

Your point is understood. My position is that this type of stuff should be left outside the arenas and stadiums.

Several MLB players got cut for attaching their names to their beliefs and it's an untenable position for employees to be in

If the league wants to take a stand, donate financially to whatever cause but don't put the rank and file in a spot to choose a side that has nothing to do with what they were hired for

Expectations are put on players all the time for things that have literally zero to do with playing hockey. Part of the deal for getting to play a children's game for millions of dollars is the expectation of representing the franchise and the community it plays for in a fashion that is consistent with acceptable behavior in our society. If a player's personal beliefs becoming public suddenly makes that player unemployable by the standards of society as a whole that's not a circumstance imposed upon the player by the league, nor should the league sacrifice its own image to protect those players.

 

[AndreRoy]

Expectations are put on players all the time for things that have literally zero to do with playing hockey. Part of the deal for getting to play a children's game for millions of dollars is the expectation of representing the franchise and the community it plays for in a fashion that is consistent with acceptable behavior in our society. If a player's personal beliefs becoming public suddenly makes that player unemployable by the standards of society as a whole that's not a circumstance imposed upon the player by the league, nor should the league sacrifice its own image to protect those players.

Would you feel the same way if the league collectively chose not to employ Dermott because it deemed his behavior unacceptable? Or do you only take that point of view when it comes to those who do what YOU consider acceptable? Are you really so arrogant as to think your personal beliefs should be imposed on everyone?

On this particular issue “acceptable behavior” and “the standards of society” are by no means a consensus; that being the case the league’s only reasonable course of action is to stay out of the debate entirely and to focus on the product it was created to provide.

 

[AndreRoy]

The NHL is gonna NHL. Hear me out, if players want to use pride tape in warm-ups let em if they don't then they dont have to.

It allows the league to remain neutral and if people get mad at that then that's their issue.

That isn’t neutral. Neutral would be to also allow those who want to use straight pride tape in warm-ups to do so. Like you said, “if people get mad at that then that’s their issue.”

 

[famicommander]

Would you feel the same way if the league collectively chose not to employ Dermott because it deemed his behavior unacceptable? Or do you only take that point of view when it comes to those who do what YOU consider acceptable? Are you really so arrogant as to think your personal beliefs should be imposed on everyone?

On this particular issue “acceptable behavior” and “the standards of society” are by no means a consensus; that being the case the league’s only reasonable course of action is to stay out of the debate entirely and to focus on the product it was created to provide.

There is no staying out of the debate. The NHL tried that and found out the hard way.

It's either the NHL wants to be perceived as bigots or it doesn't. That's what this has always been about. Whether or not you, I, or anyone else personally believes that the choice not to wear the pride stuff constitutes bigotry, that is the perception of the public at large. The NHL literally just put that question to the test and we saw the conclusion they came to when they reversed course on their ban.

From a purely dollars and cents perspective the NHL decided, just as the NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS, WNBA, NWSL, and NLL have decided, that it's in their financial interests to avoid the appearance of bigotry. And if the NHL tries to stay on the sidelines it's the exact same as being on the opposite side of all the other leagues. If the NHL is the outlier it's going to be the focus of all the fan and media attention and that attention is going to be of the same type that their ban got them.

So, we once again arrive at the same question:
Does the NHL let the entire league be perceived as bigots to protect 7 players or does the league let those 7 players fall on the grenade that they pulled the pin out of themselves in the first place? They tried it the former way and it blew up in their faces like Elmer Fudd's gun when Bugs Bunny plugs it with his fingers.

 

[daver]

So, we once again arrive at the same question:
Does the NHL let the entire league be perceived as bigots to protect 7 players or does the league let those 7 players fall on the grenade that they pulled the pin out of themselves in the first place? They tried it the former way and it blew up in their faces like Elmer Fudd's gun when Bugs Bunny plugs it with his fingers.

What did the players do that was bigoted? Not doing something voluntarily would seem to be a pretty low bar, to say the very least, to establish bigotry.

Does everyone have to show a rainbow when they present themselves to the public now in order to not be labeled a bigot?

I see no sign of a rainbow in your avatar, you must be a bigot.

 

[daver]

If their beliefs are that important to them the absolute least they could do is put their faces, their names, and their own words right out in front of them.

Basically, what this comes down to is the seven guys who got singled out knew exactly what the reaction to their decision would be and they chose to make that decision anyway while at the same time asking the NHL to absorb literally all of the consequences of said decision. It's an act of staggering cowardice.

So you clearly think these players have the "wrong" beliefs, correct?

You understand that there are not choosing these beliefs, they are as much part of their consciousness as your beliefs are part of your consciousness.

If you are interested in changing their beliefs, outing someone and grilling them in social media (which clearly influences the real media to do the same) is not a good way to go about it. That sort of action tends to get heels dug in.

These players are clearly followers, not leaders. If I were them, I would not have explained why I wouldn't wear the uniform or why I wouldn't put tape on my stick as I believe it is my personal choice as to how I may or may not choose to voluntarily support any cause. Instead, they made a point to justify their position knowing it appeared to be going against the majority feeling of acceptance by society.

An alternative to shunning these players to achieve your goal of changing their beliefs is to offer something more appealing for them to follow.

 

[TheLegend]

I was a LOT happier before rainbow became an NHL issue. I follow sports for many reasons. Social justice causes isn't one of them.

Then just ignore them. It only affects the game because you allow it to.

 

[rojac]

So you clearly think these players have the "wrong" beliefs, correct?

You understand that there are not choosing these beliefs, they are as much part of their consciousness as your beliefs are part of your consciousness.

If you are interested in changing their beliefs, outing someone and grilling them in social media (which clearly influences the real media to do the same) is not a good way to go about it. That sort of action tends to get heels dug in.

These players are clearly followers, not leaders. If I were them, I would not have explained why I wouldn't wear the uniform or why I wouldn't put tape on my stick as I believe it is my personal choice as to how I may or may not choose to voluntarily support any cause. Instead, they made a point to justify their position knowing it appeared to be going against the majority feeling of acceptance by society.

An alternative to shunning these players to achieve your goal of changing their beliefs is to offer something more appealing for them to follow.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I've chosen most, if not all, of my beliefs. Some have changed over time as I have learned that those beliefs hurt people. I find it strange that people don't question the beliefs that others instill in them when growing up.

 

[hangman005]

Of course it’s for PR… but some people think this is just another money grab just for the teams.

Oh there is probably an element of that. People give the money to the team for X, Team donates that money for X and writes off the tax. Unless I miss understand Tax Law in North America.

That said the discussion is getting pretty close the line, so lets try reel it back in to the buisness of hockey.

 

[daver]

Oh there is probably an element of that. People give the money to the team for X, Team donates that money for X and writes off the tax. Unless I miss understand Tax Law in North America.

You wouldn't give to the team. You would give a separate charitable entity (a foundation) that represents the team who then gives it to another charity. "You" would be getting the tax write off, not the team nor the foundation. The teams gets good PR and sometimes the recipient charities don't get a lot of the money because the expenses associated with foundation fundraising are high.

That is the most common issue short of outright fraud.

 

[GQS]

It's either the NHL wants to be perceived as bigots or it doesn't. That's what this has always been about. Whether or not you, I, or anyone else personally believes that the choice not to wear the pride stuff constitutes bigotry, that is the perception of the public at large. The NHL literally just put that question to the test and we saw the conclusion they came to when they reversed course on their ban.

No it isn't. The vast majority of the public at large DO NOT CARE and/or if you asked them will likely say its the player's choice to do what they like with regards to wearing a pride jersey or not. Why do you think after the last of the pride nights in the NHL happened this issue immediately died and even the people who were the most vocal stopped complaining about it? Because even these activists know that whether a player chooses to wear the pride jersey or not is a NOTHING ISSUE and since the media moved on, these people got their 15 minutes of exposure and then they dropped it. If the public actually cared that much, fans would protest and stop coming to games to show the NHL that this issued mattered THAT MUCH, but they don't because most don't care and just want to enjoy watching their teams play.

The choice of players deciding to wear or not wear a pride jersey was NEVER about acceptance/non-acceptance of the LGBT community. It was just another purity test in a long line of purity tests for people to 'prove' that they were supporting the LGBT cause 100% and if those individuals and/or organization 'failed' ANY of these tests then they could attack and jump all over them for it.

And lets be honest. The real reason why this kind of crap is happening is because the LGBT community have run out of ACTUAL SERIOUS issues to fight about and are now reduced to looking for scraps to get angry over to keep their movement alive and relevant. Its like a rich person who has pretty much everything they could ever want and now they're looking for the tiniest of things to get angry over because they don't have to worry about paying off a mortgage or earning enough money to put food on the table every night.

 

[Captain97]

That isn’t neutral. Neutral would be to also allow those who want to use straight pride tape in warm-ups to do so. Like you said, “if people get mad at that then that’s their issue.”

You and I literally said the same thing... if people want to let them. If they don't want to they don't have to

 

[Albatros]

And lets be honest. The real reason why this kind of crap is happening is because the LGBT community have run out of ACTUAL SERIOUS issues to fight about and are now reduced to looking for scraps to get angry over to keep their movement alive and relevant.

Sure, let's be honest. There are a number of gay men playing hockey in the NHL. None have ever felt comfortable enough to come out. Zero, even in 2023. Until that changes the movement is very relevant.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Alright, no one listened to the warning, so we're closing this up.

And if @Roomtemperature (or anyone else) sends me another form letter about how we're "protecting the bigots", it'll be an infraction at minimum. We don't deserve abuse via PM any more than anyone else does.