League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2021-22 season, Vol. 3, Playoffs Edition

[trick9]

Limited talents is what they are…..get us a real starter.

Holtby's wheels came off too when Korn stepped away. After he returned Holtby won us the Cup.

Samsonov is hardly a limited talent. He was a very highly-touted 1st round pick.

 

[tycoonheart]

No Jarry. No DeSmith. They're done.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Holtby's wheels came off too when Korn stepped away. After he returned Holtby won us the Cup.

Samsonov is hardly a limited talent. He was a very highly-touted 1st round pick.

Holtby regressed his last 3 seasons here…when did Magic Korn leave?

And sorry….Samsonov is limited in that he’s flawed. You can disagree.

 

[trick9]

Holtby regressed his last 3 seasons here…when did Magic Korn leave?

And sorry….Samsonov is limited in that he’s flawed. You can disagree.

Summer of 2017. Holtby played 3 seasons here after that. He came back in march 2018 to help Holtby. Then left again to NYI.

Every young goaltender is flawed. Good goalie coach can help work those flaws.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Summer of 2017. Holtby played 3 seasons here after that. He came back in march 2018 to help Holtby. Then left again to NYI.

Every young goaltender is flawed. Good goalie coach can help work those flaws.

Not all prospects are fixable…..come on. This is on the player. He is what he is. Not an NHL-#1 talent. (Talent includes the whole package for me, skill, will and intent, intelligence, desire to be great, etc…)……

Sammy doesn’t have all the stuff.

Holtby aged out….no goalie coach since has made him regain his top form.

 

[trick9]

Not all prospects are fixable…..come on. This is on the player. He is what he is. Not an NHL-#1 talent. (Talent includes the whole package for me, skill, will and intent, intelligence, desire to be great, etc…)……

Sammy doesn’t have all the stuff.

Holtby aged out….no goalie coach since has made him regain his top form.

I think what's mostly wrong on our goalies (yes, all of them) are on the mental side. Just like it was with Holtby before 2018 Playoffs. Korn didn't work his magic but just gave him his confidence back.

What's the biggest issue that's been here with our goalies since Korn left? It's that they struggle a lot in regaining their focus after they give up a goal. Every goalie has that at times but the best ones often recover very quickly. But with our goalies? Look at Sammy or VV after they give up a goal. They look so shaky afterwards. You could just feel how the wheels came off with Vanecek in G2 when he gave up the first 2 goals. But it's not just him. That's what has been haunting Samsonov his entire career here. It's what haunted Holtby in his final years here. Look at how often they get pulled (what usually happens when you give up 2-3 in a short span). If it was just one guy you could just say that well, maybe he's just mentally weak. I don't really buy it here. Holtby won us the Cup but the same issue came back shortly after Korn left. That's an issue that capable goalie coach could help with.

But i do agree with you. We need a new goalie. But we need a capable goalie coach too. Hell, even an average one would be an upgrade.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think what's mostly wrong on our goalies (yes, all of them) are on the mental side. Just like it was with Holtby before 2018 Playoffs. Korn didn't work his magic but just gave him his confidence back.

What's the biggest issue that's been here with our goalies since Korn left? It's that they struggle a lot in regaining their focus after they give up a goal. Every goalie has that at times but the best ones often recover very quickly. But with our goalies? Look at Sammy or VV after they give up a goal. They look so shaky afterwards. You could just feel how the wheels came off with Vanecek in G2 when he gave up the first 2 goals. But it's not just him. That's what has been haunting Samsonov his entire career here. It's what haunted Holtby in his final years here. Look at how often they get pulled (what usually happens when you give up 2-3 in a short span). If it was just one guy you could just say that well, maybe he's just mentally weak. I don't really buy it here. Holtby won us the Cup but the same issue came back shortly after Korn left. That's an issue that capable goalie coach could help with.

But i do agree with you. We need a new goalie. But we need a capable goalie coach too. Hell, even an average one would be an upgrade.

I think that’s also systemic, and also as I believe, they‘re simply not real lead dog #1s….the team has had a penchant for giving up a quick answer back goal for years….today we’re in a situation where the team often sags when they give up a softy, the goalies know it and instead of sacking up, they often wilt even more.

 

[895]

Is there a physical reason for Holtby's decline? He's still pretty young and was definitely still young when he declined. I don't remember any injuries.

 

[HTFN]

Not all prospects are fixable…..come on. This is on the player. He is what he is. Not an NHL-#1 talent. (Talent includes the whole package for me, skill, will and intent, intelligence, desire to be great, etc…)……

Sammy doesn’t have all the stuff.

Holtby aged out….no goalie coach since has made him regain his top form.

I don't think I usually believe in miracle worker coaches but I don't think you're right here. Korn had "it", he broke his goalies down and then built them back up in a way that wasn't foreign to them but definitely improved their playstyle. It wasn't natural enough that they could just retain it once he left, either, which we saw by Korn stepping down and then re-entering the fold right in time to make Holtby immortal for the Cup run. That's not a coincidence.

Just tracking the man's body of work should have you re-thinking what you're saying here. A top quality goaltending coach might be the second most important coaching position on a team, if not arguably neck and neck with the head coach itself.

 

[Capsman]

That's a bit of a cop-out. Both were relatively high picks. Samsonov in particular was very heralded in his draft year. It just doesn't look good having two goaltenders that have basically not really progressed from a details standpoint. At other positions maybe you can get away with it. Not there.

If Murray had any kind of prior pedigree I might give him the benefit of the doubt but he doesn't really.

I would agree with you. But again, that falls on BM, who has been passive in allowing Murray, like Forsythe, to become a Caps mascot of sorts.

 

[HecticGlow]

Is there a physical reason for Holtby's decline? He's still pretty young and was definitely still young when he declined. I don't remember any injuries.

He also turned it around towards the end of the year in Vancouver last season - he was bought out for cap reasons more than anything - and was having a good season with Dallas until he got injured.

My issue is GMBM and Lavi have both said they like Scott Murray because he was once Mitch Korn’s protege, and Korn has an impressive name. There is no doubting Korn was a phenomenal goalie coach, but five years into Murray taking the job and our goaltending has never recovered. We just didn’t see Holtby’s play dive off a cliff in the Korn era, yet it became shaky almost as soon as Murray came along. Holtby didn’t looked like himself again with the Caps after Korn left for the Islanders. Pheonix Copley, Samsonov and Vanecek - all highly valued by an organisation with an eye for goaltending talent - haven’t been able to sustain good play for more than a few months under Murray.

It perplexes me that they still haven’t brought someone else in. Is there really no one available who could do the job at least as well as Scott Murray? Are good goaltending coaches so much rarer than any other kind of coach?

 

[Capsman]

I don't think I usually believe in miracle worker coaches but I don't think you're right here. Korn had "it", he broke his goalies down and then built them back up in a way that wasn't foreign to them but definitely improved their playstyle. It wasn't natural enough that they could just retain it once he left, either, which we saw by Korn stepping down and then re-entering the fold right in time to make Holtby immortal for the Cup run. That's not a coincidence.

Just tracking the man's body of work should have you re-thinking what you're saying here. A top quality goaltending coach might be the second most important coaching position on a team, if not arguably neck and neck with the head coach itself.

If there’s any doubt what a bad goalie coach can do to a goalie, refer back to the Oates era. So while goalie whisperers can be rare, it’s easy to see how a coach can F up someone’s game.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't think I usually believe in miracle worker coaches but I don't think you're right here. Korn had "it", he broke his goalies down and then built them back up in a way that wasn't foreign to them but definitely improved their playstyle. It wasn't natural enough that they could just retain it once he left, either, which we saw by Korn stepping down and then re-entering the fold right in time to make Holtby immortal for the Cup run. That's not a coincidence.

Just tracking the man's body of work should have you re-thinking what you're saying here. A top quality goaltending coach might be the second most important coaching position on a team, if not arguably neck and neck with the head coach itself.

Then there’s one magic goalie man in the world and we’re screwed I guess. I have no faith Sammy would be a Vezina contender under Korn. None.

He also turned it around towards the end of the year in Vancouver last season - he was bought out for cap reasons more than anything - and was having a good season with Dallas until he got injured.

My issue is GMBM and Lavi have both said they like Scott Murray because he was once Mitch Korn’s protege, and Korn has an impressive name. There is no doubting Korn was a phenomenal goalie coach, but five years into Murray taking the job and our goaltending has never recovered. We just didn’t see Holtby’s play dive off a cliff in the Korn era, yet it became shaky almost as soon as Murray came along. Holtby didn’t looked like himself again with the Caps after Korn left for the Islanders. Pheonix Copley, Samsonov and Vanecek - all highly valued by an organisation with an eye for goaltending talent - haven’t been able to sustain good play for more than a few months under Murray.

It perplexes me that they still haven’t brought someone else in. Is there really no one available who could do the job at least as well as Scott Murray? Are good goaltending coaches so much rarer than any other kind of coach?

Copley had a good year in DC and earned a raise that cost him his roster spot.

Vanny has overachieved when he was a destined to be a platoon AHL starter.

 

[Hivemind]

I think it's at least as much Murray ruining goalies, including Holtby, as Korn being a goalie whisperer (which he definitely is). But Holtby also had great development and progression and early results under Dave Prior, then Oates-administration came in and drove Prior out after 2013, and then spent the next season overruling the new goalie coach (Kolzig). Korn was able to revive Holtby's career and take it to its full potential, but I do think Holtby under Prior would have been a very successful goalie as well (albeit perhaps without the Vezina peak).

Prior then went on to follow George McPhee to Vegas, where he revived MAF's career and took it to new heights as the Director of Goaltending. He was eventually ousted in Vegas as well (sometime around the time of the Lehner trade).

Why the hell the organization has stuck to Murray when Dave Prior is available to be hired is absolutely baffling.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Feels weird pulling for TB….

 

[895]

Kaprizov is both good and lucky. Wish we had him.

 

[ovikovy817]

Kaprizov is both good and lucky. Wish we had him.

When Caps will be eliminated I will root for the Wild.
First time I will do that. Usually when Caps are out the hockey season is over for me and I don't care what happens and who wins it as long as it not's a Caps' rival.

 

[tycoonheart]

Evander friggin Kane has 5 goals in 3 games.

 

[DWGie26]

Evander friggin Kane has 5 goals in 3 games.

F Evander Kane.

 

[RedRocking]

Playoff Shesterkin sure doesn’t look like - the “Vezina/Hart, u have to give him everything!!” Shesterkin - that was advertised.

 

[DWGie26]

It’s hard to give up on young goalies.

I believe deeply in coaching. There is good coaching and bad coaching. Good chemistry and bad. Great coaches get the most of each individual player differently. But there also has to be a buyin To the system To go with it.

Look at what Pecca did for our face offs. Korn for goalies. they got the most of individuals. And remember the goalie system is part of the overall team system. I hope one of our guys steps out in front this playoffs because i don’t think you keep both again. Sign them yes As they are RFA so don’t be mad when that happens. It’s just good business.

 

[kicksavedave]

Playoff Shesterkin sure doesn’t look like - the “Vezina/Hart, u have to give him everything!!” Shesterkin - that was advertised.

Was just going to post this, given up 4 in the first period, and the 3rd one was DREADFUL, from his own glove to his legs to the back of the net. LOL... Love to see it, except its the Pens doing it.

 

[tycoonheart]

Not rooting for the pens or anything buts it's kinda fun to watch the two old dogs take it to these new up and coming teams.

 

[tycoonheart]

Rodriguez almost pulled a Hagelin.

 

[DWGie26]

I just want this rags poons series to go to 7 games and be a Physical tiring series. Someone has to win… let it be painful!