NHL Player Safety hearing for Raffi - gets 41 games/won't appeal

[Coily]

Trade Torres to the Bruins and the league will reduce his suspension to 4 games.

Na, Colin Campbell isn't the HOPS anymore.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I don't follow as it seems to have nothing to do with Torres, assuming you are talking about the 1st round pick for Martin.

Someone on the main board suggested the Sharks should lose the 1st round pick as well (they don't even have one lol)

 

[Bowie22]

Someone on the main board suggested the Sharks should lose the 1st round pick as well (they don't even have one lol)

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I don't follow as it seems to have nothing to do with Torres, assuming you are talking about the 1st round pick for Martin.

Fans on the main board want our 2016 1st taken away. I'm ok with that.

 

[weastern bias]

Torres season! FIRE!

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Oh and that rodent faced ***** Kesler.

 

[stator]

Someone on the main board suggested the Sharks should lose the 1st round pick as well (they don't even have one lol)

Okay, I get it now. Perhaps we should all go over there and reply that we agree in lieu of game suspension?

 

[Bowie22]

Couldn't care less about their tears.

 

[oyster]

Torres can take his bum knee and his skull-seeking shoulder pads and **** off. His signing was a desperate devil's bargain to try and come up with some forward depth, we all knew the risks. Never wanted him on the team, not sad he's gone. With luck the Sharks can get out of wasting a roster spot on him this season.

Randy Hahn wrote a piece on Torres that said it better than I could (awkwardly not long before the team signed him):
http://sharks.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=8827

The NHL has made it clear they're finally serious about concussions and guys like Torres have no place in today's NHL, like it or not.

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't think we need to have the "what goes on on other boards is not our concern here." talk again.

You're going to see things you don't like if you venture outside the walls of the SJ board. And it's not necessarily going to be against the rules like it would be here. If you can't handle that responsibly, you'd probably be best served by staying away.

And for the love of got stay off of other teams' boards if you can't be on your best behaviour. Going to another board to invite trouble deserves whatever repercussions the mods deem fit to dole out.

 

[hockeyball]

I don't think we need to have the "what goes on on other boards is not our concern here." talk again.

You're going to see things you don't like if you venture outside the walls of the SJ board. And it's not necessarily going to be against the rules like it would be here. If you can't handle that responsibly, you'd probably be best served by staying away.

And for the love of got stay off of other teams' boards if you can't be on your best behaviour. Going to another board to invite trouble deserves whatever repercussions the mods deem fit to dole out.

Sounds like you work for the NHL disciplinary board too!

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

The NHL has made it clear they're finally serious about concussions and guys like Torres have no place in today's NHL, like it or not.

The NHL will never be serious about concussions until they ban fighting. Fighting causes more head trauma than a check to the head. The NHL is trying to act tough on concussions by suspending Torres 41 games for a check to the head but by not taking the same tough stance on fighting, the concussion issues will continue.

 

[hockeyball]

The NHL will never be serious about concussions until they ban fighting. Fighting causes more head trauma than a check to the head. The NHL is trying to act tough on concussions by suspending Torres 41 games for a check to the head but by not taking the same tough stance on fighting, the concussion issues will continue.

Honestly, I don't agree with that. Fighting is way down, especially by non-enforcers and rarely do fights involve major blows these days. With the helmet must stay on rule you also avoid the more likely cause of concussions from the head hitting the ice. Fighting is stupid, and pointless, but it's tough to punish too harshly too because guys are just going to fight sometimes. I agree, at some point they are going to increase the penalty (like make it an automatic game misconduct) but I don't think they'll ever outright ban it, or suspend for it even.

I think one they will tackle next is high sticking. Sticks to the head is a constant problem, way more dangerous than a punch, and very common. I expect them to increase the penalty for high sticking within the next 5 years to try to curb it. I wouldn't be surprised if they start treating a high stick to the head as a 'hit to the head' and have it follow the same general guidelines.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I don't think we need to have the "what goes on on other boards is not our concern here." talk again.

You're going to see things you don't like if you venture outside the walls of the SJ board. And it's not necessarily going to be against the rules like it would be here. If you can't handle that responsibly, you'd probably be best served by staying away.

And for the love of got stay off of other teams' boards if you can't be on your best behaviour. Going to another board to invite trouble deserves whatever repercussions the mods deem fit to dole out.

Yes, father.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Honestly, I don't agree with that. Fighting is way down, especially by non-enforcers and rarely do fights involve major blows these days. With the helmet must stay on rule you also avoid the more likely cause of concussions from the head hitting the ice. Fighting is stupid, and pointless, but it's tough to punish too harshly too because guys are just going to fight sometimes. I agree, at some point they are going to increase the penalty (like make it an automatic game misconduct) but I don't think they'll ever outright ban it, or suspend for it even.

I think one they will tackle next is high sticking. Sticks to the head is a constant problem, way more dangerous than a punch, and very common. I expect them to increase the penalty for high sticking within the next 5 years to try to curb it. I wouldn't be surprised if they start treating a high stick to the head as a 'hit to the head' and have it follow the same general guidelines.

I just find hypocrisy in the fact that checks to the head are taken seriously but if you drop your gloves and punch guys in the head, it is alright. Maybe they won't outright ban it like you said but if they just suspend players for fighting (like the NFL, NBA, MLB do) it would cut down severely on the number of fights and improve on the quality of hockey since there will be less goons.

As far as high sticking, I don't know. Most, if not all, high sticks are completely accidental because of the stick ramping up another player's stick or a missed stick lift. That would be hard to enforce IMO

 

[Led Zappa]

I just find hypocrisy in the fact that checks to the head are taken seriously but if you drop your gloves and punch guys in the head, it is alright. Maybe they won't outright ban it like you said but if they just suspend players for fighting (like the NFL, NBA, MLB do) it would cut down severely on the number of fights and improve on the quality of hockey since there will be less goons.

As far as high sticking, I don't know. Most if not all high sticks are completely accidental because of the sticking ramping up another player's stick or a missed stick lift. That would be hard to enforce IMO

Then everyone will start arguing over what a fight is. I've seen many fights that aren't called because only a few punches are thrown and sometimes they do call it a fight. Usually based on who the players are.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Then everyone will start arguing over what a fight is. I've seen many fights that aren't called because only a few punches are thrown and sometimes they do call it a fight. Usually based on who the players are.

True, that is a good point. The NHL would have to clearly define what a fight is. IMO a fight is when a guys drop the gloves and square off regardless of how many punches are thrown.

 

[SJGoalie32]

I just find hypocrisy in the fact that checks to the head are taken seriously but if you drop your gloves and punch guys in the head, it is alright. Maybe they won't outright ban it like you said but if they just suspend players for fighting (like the NFL, NBA, MLB do) it would cut down severely on the number of fights and improve on the quality of hockey since there will be less goons.

You're right, it is completely hypocritical that the penalty for bare-knuckle brawling on the ice is only 3 minutes longer than clearing the puck of the glass and only 1 minute longer than a stray stick that accidentally cuts the skin of an opposing player.

And I would venture to say that the league is moving in the direction of getting rid of fighting.


That being said, as far as the concussion concerns, I believe I read somewhere that head shots that are a part of the play are much more dangerous than fighting is. Raffi Torres building up a running start and delivering a shoulder or an elbow to a player's head generally has a more forceful impact than any single punch that lands squarely. Further, concussions are supposed to be more likely on impacts to the side of the head (where the head and neck have much less of an ability to absorb the force of the blow) than a head-on fist-to-face impact would where the head/neck can move backwards with the punch thereby cushioning the brain more.

Another factor is the part where a fighter is aware of the risks of the fight and has the ability to protect himself.....whether by not fighting at all, or by guarding against all the hits he can see coming right at him. Most of Torres' head-shot victims never see him coming. That's what makes the blind-side headshots so very dangerous. The player doesn't see him coming even if he has his head up, and the force of the impact is to the side of the head.

Obviously there is much variation in the force and quality of impact delivered in a punch or a flying shoulder/elbow, but all in all it seems like these in game head shots are more dangerous. I still think they should eliminate fighting, I still think that's the direction this is ultimately going in, but head trauma from illegal checks is more dangerous. And as the NHL adds requirements that helmets stay on for fights and that players need to have visors, even the ability to cause concussions through fighting will decrease.

 

[matt trick]

Talking about precedent, I'm 100% okay with this unprecedented suspension as long as it sets the ****ing precedent moving forward.

This suspension is a popular move on the part of the NHL. Reading Burnside's piece and comments on this site and others, the NHL has the support of most fans on this decision, which has made it a relatively easy one for them to make.

I am truly curious to see if they are able to hold similar headshots and similar repeat offenders to the same standard when the player is a star or from a bigger market, and they don't quite have the same popular support. My fear is that Torres was an easy target, so they threw the book at him, but won't do the same when Brown levels another knee, or Keith throws another elbow, or Kronwall leaves his feet yet again.

There's an angry mob, torch and pitchforks in hand, coming after Torres right now, meaning the NHL doesn't have to fight for or justify this suspension. We'll see how they respond when they actually have to fight. We'll see how they respond when it's a more popular crest on the front of the jersey, or when it's an award winner or top point-getter putting a shoulder in someone jaw.

They are potentially just picking an easy target, and treating the symptom, an individual player, and not the disease that is headshots as a whole.

If this is the beginning of a new era of player safety, I am 100% on board and applaud the NHL. If this is an easy way of making an example of one player before going back to business as usual, I'm disgusted with the NHL.

I definitely agree with this. If Raffi is used as an example that sets a precedent, fine. If he is only an example for bottom 6 players who have a history of dirty hits, I have an issue with it. Even if this were a one off, I'd be okay with a 10-20 game suspension, but for 41, they had better be going after every one who throws multiple dirty hits, and who have histories.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Then everyone will start arguing over what a fight is. I've seen many fights that aren't called because only a few punches are thrown and sometimes they do call it a fight. Usually based on who the players are.

Ehh, I'm not terribly concerned. The NFL basically has this already. You're not allowed to fight, you're not even allowed to punch an opponent.

I've seen plenty of NFL games and read plenty of injury reports.....the NFL doesn't seem soft to me.

Of course there's still pushing and shoving after a lot of plays. There are still NFL players who take liberties, a player or two who will get ejected for throwing a punch, and of course players who throw punches that the referees don't see which leads to controversy. But it's been a pretty consistent standard for a long time now. The NFL doesn't seem soft to me because it lacks bare-knuckle brawling.

Make the standard that anyone who throws a punch is ejected and fighting will be all but gone. You'll still have toughness, physicality, pushing, shoving, and general anger. And yes, some guys will be penalized unfairly while other guys will get away unfairly.....exactly like every penalty on the books now.

 

[Painful Quandary]

I definitely agree with this. If Raffi is used as an example that sets a precedent, fine. If he is only an example for bottom 6 players who have a history of dirty hits, I have an issue with it. Even if this were a one off, I'd be okay with a 10-20 game suspension, but for 41, they had better be going after every one who throws multiple dirty hits, and who have histories.

I have to agree, unless this is the precedent which will get followed in the future (not holding my breath), then the length is a joke. I think about 15 games would be fair, but when you are talking about half the season without precedent, then it is hard for me to take it seriously.

 

[Led Zappa]

Ehh, I'm not terribly concerned. The NFL basically has this already. You're not allowed to fight, you're not even allowed to punch an opponent.

I've seen plenty of NFL games and read plenty of injury reports.....the NFL doesn't seem soft to me.

Of course there's still pushing and shoving after a lot of plays. There are still NFL players who take liberties, a player or two who will get ejected for throwing a punch, and of course players who throw punches that the referees don't see which leads to controversy. But it's been a pretty consistent standard for a long time now. The NFL doesn't seem soft to me because it lacks bare-knuckle brawling.

Make the standard that anyone who throws a punch is ejected and fighting will be all but gone. You'll still have toughness, physicality, pushing, shoving, and general anger. And yes, some guys will be penalized unfairly while other guys will get away unfairly.....exactly like every penalty on the books now.

Forgive me if I don't share your confidence that the NHL will do this like the NFL. And you say just like any other penalty only this won't be just another penalty. It will come with severe consequences. The NHL is just terrible at equal justice. One step above the NBA.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I have to agree, unless this is the precedent which will get followed in the future (not holding my breath), then the length is a joke. I think about 15 games would be fair, but when you are talking about half the season without precedent, then it is hard for me to take it seriously.

It seems personal. DW probably isn't a fave since he's called them out before.

 

[Painful Quandary]

It seems personal. DW probably isn't a fave since he's called them out before.

I forgot about that, thanks. Now the 41 games makes sense.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

It seems personal. DW probably isn't a fave since he's called them out before.

Nick Diaz treatment.

He was previously suspended for 21 games so they had to crank it up. I'm sure NHLPA will appeal.