NHL/NHLPA Meeting over for 6/17.Meet on Monday in TO

[HSHS]

Most had enough foresight to avoid the need for hindsight. Unfortunately those with foresight were attacked by those who couldn't see what was obvious to most.



And that is exactly what he has gotten. Pretty good strategy if you ask me. Use your opponents weaknesses against them.

Real progress began when the players wrested control from their misguided leader and capitulated on all the major issues.

Gary read Sun Tzu...

 

[SENSible1*]

Again, the 'give us time' experiment will not work. That's why we had the lockout. There are going to be a lot of teams that want to see instant results or they will either not come back to will stop coming (I am not one of these people).


I don't know if you live in Canada or not, but in the USA, hockey is barely on the radar, and fans are going to want instant results regardless of what the organization's plan is. There are a lot of teams whose fans are going to say we had to wait a whole year, give us something to watch, NOW.

The owners, and those in the franchises you mentioned in particular, have demonstrated a willingness to lose money over the short-term to improve the long-term picture.

This CBA improves things dramatically for the small markets in the states in the long-term. Don't believe me? Just check out the amount of whining from the big market fans who are losing their advantages.

Will all 30 teams succeed in their current locations? Doubtful, but at least this lockout and CBA will give them a fighting chance.

In the long run the league will be far healthier with this system.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

You act as if the owners win. The owners are still going to lose money before they make it. The season got canceled...nobody wins.

For the owners, that is better than what the alternative was.

 

[HSHS]

But they lost a whole season to do that. That revenue (for some owners) will also never been seen again not to mention the yet to be determined damage to the game this will cause. There will be a lot of avid hockey fans who will never watch or never go to a game ever again (or until there is an opportunie time to jump on the bandwagon) just because they missed a whole season. I'm wondering how hockey is even going to survive anymore in places like Nashville, Carolina and Florida...

I really question this speculation... it will be interesting to see when the pucks drops how actual attendance changes, Center Ice packages, etc.

I know that a lot of hockey fans talk a good game about boycotts, but we'll see when it starts. The only avid fans they may have lost are those who realized hockey wasn't passion, it was habit (as was mentioned by someone a few months ago)

 

[GKJ]

The owners, and those in the franchises you mentioned in particular, have demonstrated a willingness to lose money over the short-term to improve the long-term picture.

This CBA improves things dramatically for the small markets in the states in the long-term. Don't believe me? Just check out the amount of whining from the big market fans who are losing their advantages.

Will all 30 teams succeed in their current locations? Doubtful, but at least this lockout and CBA will give them a fighting chance.

In the long run the league will be far healthier with this system.

The league will be healthier, yes. I am making the arguement that some of the markets are not. If any team tries to sell a new CBA to their fans they will get laughed at.

 

[GKJ]

For the owners, that is better than what the alternative was.

They could have had this deal back in January if they just decided they weren't going to use replacement players. Just as the players could have had a better deal if the little guys spoke up more.

 

[SENSible1*]

The league will be healthier, yes. I am making the arguement that some of the markets are not. If any team tries to sell a new CBA to their fans they will get laughed at.

They won't need to sell the CBA to them, they'll have a more competitive team and long term situation to sell and the players helping out anyway they can. PA members have traditionally been pretty good in terms of community appearances, but watch for them to go above and beyond the call of duty in the next CBA as every dollar they help generate puts an additional 54 cents in their pockets.

 

[SENSible1*]

They could have had this deal back in January if they just decided they weren't going to use replacement players.

Ummm....NO. This deal was not available in January and had NOTHING to do with the NHL's threat of replacement players. The PA needed to capitulate. They weren't ready to do so in January....they are now.

Just as the players could have had a better deal if the little guys spoke up more.

The PA could have had a better deal any time in the last 3 years.

 

[Ar-too]

They could have had this deal back in January if they just decided they weren't going to use replacement players. Just as the players could have had a better deal if the little guys spoke up more.

That's hard to believe.

 

[GKJ]

The PA could have had a better deal any time in the last 3 years.

And mercifully, their fearless leader will be releived of his duties once this is all over.


And if he isn't, that will be a bigger mistake and anything they've done during the lockout.

 

[Slats432]

And that is exactly what he has gotten. Pretty good strategy if you ask me. Use your opponents weaknesses against them.

Real progress began when the players wrested control from their misguided leader and capitulated on all the major issues.

Although we are on the same side of the argument for the most part (Pro owner) these statements are ridiculous.

If you think Bettman deserves a pat on the back for the way he handled this mess, you are as misguided as some of the biggest PA shills.

 

[SENSible1*]

And mercifully, their fearless leader will be releived of his duties once this is all over.


And if he isn't, that will be a bigger mistake and anything they've done during the lockout.

On this you have my unqualified agreement.

Both sides will mouth their meaningless PR apologies for the consumption of the masses at the conclusion of the lockout. The only "apology" that will be worthwhile from the PA will be watching Bobby get shown the door. I'll hold a little celebration on the day that event comes to pass.

 

[SENSible1*]

Although we are on the same side of the argument for the most part (Pro owner) these statements are ridiculous.

If you think Bettman deserves a pat on the back for the way he handled this mess,

Considering the opponent he faced and the magnitude of the changes he needed to get the players to agree to, I can not think of any other way he could have done a more effective job.

Bettman has done a masterful job considering the hand he was dealt.

 

[GKJ]

Considering the opponent he faced and the magnitude of the changes he needed to get the players to agree to, I can not think of any other way he could have done a more effective job.

Bettman has done a masterful job considering the hand he was dealt.

The fact he had an entire season canceled automaticlly makes him the worst commishioner in the history of sports. David Stern said it himself when he said Bettman was doing all he could but there is no way he would ever let an entire season get canceled. No matter what Bettman does, this will be his legacy.

 

[GKJ]

On this you have my unqualified agreement.

Both sides will mouth their meaningless PR apologies for the consumption of the masses at the conclusion of the lockout. The only "apology" that will be worthwhile from the PA will be watching Bobby get shown the door. I'll hold a little celebration on the day that event comes to pass.

I'll hold my celebration as well

 

[Kritter471]

You completely missed the point.

The teams can act like expansion franchises with NO fan base, except they now have:

1) A far more level playing field and the chance to sell hope of more rapid improvement and the ability to keep their core together.

2) Access to more talent at a far more reasonable cost, as the hoarders are forced to trim rosters.

3) Increased revenue sharing, helping the bottom line as they grow their market.

4) Increased confidence on an organizational level that they can succeed with good management being the paramount factor in on ice success.

5) Players that have a vested financial interest in selling the product.

There is no guarantee that they will succeed, but they are in a FAR BETTER situation than when the lockout started.

While all your points are good ones, nothing draws fans like a winning product on the ice, and I've seen very little that suggests to me some of the smaller market and/or non-traditional market owners are interested in that. Yes, they will ideally have a more level playing field to work with, but with 30 teams, there are still going to be about 15 teams that have a losing record each season (unless you want each team to finish 41-41, which would be entirely socialist of you, not that there's anything wrong with that).

Big market owners who poured a lot (and sometimes too much) money into their team were obviously making at least a surface attempt to win, which in turn drew fans which in turn created revenue when in turn allowed them to put money into their pockets and back into the team which in turn led to more opportunity to spend blah blah blah.

ANY sport is a bandwagon sport. Winning teams draw better/create more interest than losing teams in any sport, in any city. With all the economic changes, a fundamental change that has to be made for the sport to succeed anywhere is all the management/owners must be willing to concentrate on winning just as much as the bottom line. The new CBA should help allieviate some of the financial pressures that caused problems with that in the past, but some of the owners (Wirtz, I'm lookin' at you) have yet to prove to me they view this as anything but an opportunity to make even more money.

Edit because I'm afraid I was unclear: Some of the small-market teams do demonstrate to me that they want to win. Edmonton usually falls into that category, Minnesota, Columbus and Tampa Bay do as well. But some of the most vocal "hard-line" owners really don't strike me as people who care about the quality of their on-ice product as much as they care about making money off of their investment.

 

[Slangston]

The fact he had an entire season canceled automaticlly makes him the worst commishioner in the history of sports. David Stern said it himself when he said Bettman was doing all he could but there is no way he would ever let an entire season get canceled. No matter what Bettman does, this will be his legacy.

Not if Bettman really has hammered out "The best CBA in all of sports" as Ed Snider stated. Who knows...It's possible years from now that the cancelation the season will recognized merely as a negotiation tactic. When all is said and done, Bettman did his job.

 

[HF2002]

The fact he had an entire season canceled automaticlly makes him the worst commishioner in the history of sports. David Stern said it himself when he said Bettman was doing all he could but there is no way he would ever let an entire season get canceled. No matter what Bettman does, this will be his legacy.

If the League rebounds and flourishes, Bettman will be seen as one of the best commissioners the NHL ever had.

It's one thing for Stern to say that he would have never let the season get cancelled. Let's see if he follows his own advice.

 

[DevilsFan]

Not if Bettman really has hammered out "The best CBA in all of sports" as Ed Snider stated. Who knows...It's possible years from now that the cancelation the season will recognized merely as a negotiation tactic. When all is said and done, Bettman did his job.

Well said. But if the NHL flounders in a few years, expect Bettman to be fired and be given the "worst commissioner" title. Actually, my vote for worst commissioner is Bud Selig. Steroids and out of control salaries have me wanting this guy's head on a figurative platter. With him in charge, small market teams will NEVER be competative (I'm a a Mets fan!) and players and their skills will never be looked at the same.

 

[rekrul]

If the League rebounds and flourishes, Bettman will be seen as one of the best commissioners the NHL ever had.

It's one thing for Stern to say that he would have never let the season get cancelled. Let's see if he follows his own advice.

First off don't expect the NBA to cancell any of the season, they are just posturing now and they really are very close to a deal. Billy hunter just hates David Stern being his daddy, too bad. Each roster of 12 NBA players divide up a $3 Bill pot pretty easy, just sweat the details a bit. Lockout maybe but each side agrees that its too silly to do any harm with prolonged work stoppage.

Bettman has much more to deal with than Stern does on his watch. The NHL has no history of a capped system, and the players were not about to give in so easily. If the new CBA works economicly, then the atom bomb dropped might have been needed. We still can't say however that the scortched earth of the sports landscape can nourish a sport that was sick to begin with.

During Bettman's tenure interest in hockey was cut in 1/2 despite moving into a lot of new USA markets. I have ZERO confidence in Bettman getting the interest back to 1994 levels, I don't care if Crosby scores 200pts, Bettman & the marketers he has hired have shown no ability to get the casual fan interested. Now its not even going to be on TV on a regular basis.

 

[SENSible1*]

The fact he had an entire season canceled automaticlly makes him the worst commishioner in the history of sports. David Stern said it himself when he said Bettman was doing all he could but there is no way he would ever let an entire season get canceled. No matter what Bettman does, this will be his legacy.

Without a willingness to cancel the season, Bettman could never have gotten the players to capitulate. Until he did, Boobie could sell the membership on the NHL caving in to his last minute tactics. Once Bettman did follow through on his promise to close the doors until they got a deal that made sense to the owners, the players realized they needed a change in tactics and leadership.

A drastic move no doubt, but an absolutely essential one.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

I want the PA people who said they all had the leverage, and that the owners are the ones who are desperate to read that article...especially this line

This player is grossly mistaken. Both sides are equally as motivated to get a deal done. If the owners weren't...they would have dragged this lockout longer until they achieved linkage, significantly reduced QOs, elimination of arbitration etc...the risk of losing sponsors scared the heck out of all the owners...the risk of losing another profitable year scared the big market teams even before the cancellation of the season. This month was most certainly the time of the year in which the players had the most leverage.

BTW, chiavsfan...don't forget these owners are no different than Malcolm Glazer. They view you as an ATM machine...cha ching cha ching cha ching. I'll never be pro-owner since these selfish boys were the ones who allowed the previous CBA to become obsolete. The players wouldn't have got all that money if some owners weren't so stupid.

 

[chiavsfan]

And the players and their agents drove up the prices, because the "union" felt 3rd and 4th liners were worth millions. It goes both ways...and if your not a fan of owners...then don't go to games. Best way you can get back at em

 

[Slats432]

Without a willingness to cancel the season, Bettman could never have gotten the players to capitulate. Until he did, Boobie could sell the membership on the NHL caving in to his last minute tactics. Once Bettman did follow through on his promise to close the doors until they got a deal that made sense to the owners, the players realized they needed a change in tactics and leadership.

A drastic move no doubt, but an absolutely essential one.

I wish a pox on you for making me defend the NHLPA.

Negotiators negotiate. Good business people find a way to get things done. Gary did not. He was going to put the screws to the NHLPA regardless of what you believe.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Negotiators negotiate. Good business people find a way to get things done. Gary did not. He was going to put the screws to the NHLPA regardless of what you believe.

There was no way to get the NHLPA to drop their illogical defense of a no-cap system in the time frame you're referring to. Gary couldn't have done it. Henry Kissenger couldn't have done it.

You just have to step back and realize that there was no way, no way for ANYONE, to make a deal with last year's NHLPA and still fix the league's problems. It doesn't make Bettman a "bad business person" or a "bad negotiator". It does make *Goodenow* one, though, and one is all it takes to destroy a negotiation.

Bettman only really made one mistake, and that was trying to divide the union for their own good back in the winter. It backfired and made them stick their heads in the sand even further when its quite possible the players would have caved from their indefensible position earlier if he hadn't. Otherwise he has done a great job of getting the league fixed in the face of a greedy, shortsighted, obtuse playerbase with a leader dedicated to breaking the league even worse.