NHL Head Coach: Toronto is the third most talented team in the East

[User9992]

I'd place them second, but it's close.

1. Cleveland
2. Toronto
3. Boston

Boston has a lotto pick this year and next though.

It's not about NBA dude... Calm down

 

[TIGERCOOL]

people appealing to authority often suggest that because someone working in that area(a coach or a GM for example) says or does something it must be right. And that anyone suggesting otherwise is incorrect.

Yeah if I had a question about hockey to ask I'd probably go ask a NHL coach if I could instead of a HF poster, just like I'd go to a doctor to ask about a tumour instead of a random person on the street. Doesn't mean the doctor can't mis-diagnose me. Doesn't mean the NHL coach can't be wrong and the HF poster can't be right.

95% of the time the coach is probably right, and given the knowledge needed to be a doctor that most random people don't have compared to the knowledge they can get watching hockey I would say it's much tougher to be right about the tumour than the hockey as a random person.

There's nothing wrong with saying hey this person in a position of knowledge on the subject thinks this. That's not appeal to authority. Some unknown NHL coach thinks the Leafs are a top 3 talents team in the East. That's cool. It's probably true, I agree, but it's not fact. It's pointing out what 1 smart guy thinks. However saying this guy with knowledge says this and you say otherwise, you have to be wrong because the guy with knowledge is right all the time is. If someone reads this forum and goes and tells his friend, some NHL coach says the Leafs are a top 3 talented team, he has to be right thus you saying they aren't means you're wrong. That's appeal to authority, and it can't work when 2 people in a similar position have differing opinions.

Yes of course experts in their respective fields are sometimes wrong. That said the actual fallacy known as the "appeal to authority" means appealing to the opinion experts in unrelated fields simply because they have status. In other words, valuing a doctor's opinion on how talented the Leafs are simply because he has higher status and credentials, implying that his opinion is of greater value intrinsically. Appealing to the authority of an expert in their field is not a fallacy and is in fact usually a very good idea.

That said, I don't think it makes it an absolute 100% certainty that the Leafs are the 3rd most skilled team in the East, but he is in a much better position than us to evaluate that and this carries merit.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

They're the next superteam in the east, they have the "it" factor a lot of other young teams don't. Superb management and coaching mixed with young talent is a formula for success. Just imagine if they can land a Tavares or Doughty in the next couple years, that would really elevate them to the next level. That said, Pittsburgh and Washington aren't going anywhere for a few years and i expect some big battles with them in the upcoming years.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

They're the next superteam in the east, they have the "it" factor a lot of other young teams don't. Superb management and coaching mixed with young talent is a formula for success. Just imagine if they can land a Tavares or Doughty in the next couple years, that would really elevate them to the next level. That said, Pittsburgh and Washington aren't going anywhere for a few years and i expect some big battles with them in the upcoming years.

Super teams have home grown talented defenseman that they have groomed in their organization. Reilly is not that guy. In order for the leafs to be better they have to trade their wealth of offense for some defensive help, otherwise they will continue to be mediocre. You can't just buy a number 1 defenseman unless you are willing to overpay or trade way too many assets to get them.

These proclamations of being a powerhouse would make sense if all it takes to win games is high scoring teams.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I'm comfortable putting them at 4th in the East talent-wise. Definitely trending upwards.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

It's not about NBA dude... Calm down

 

[Crabapple]

I don't get how the Caps aren't exploiting that bad D core, but they've been a ton of fun to watch and I love an underdog upset.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They're the next superteam in the east, they have the "it" factor a lot of other young teams don't. Superb management and coaching mixed with young talent is a formula for success. Just imagine if they can land a Tavares or Doughty in the next couple years, that would really elevate them to the next level. That said, Pittsburgh and Washington aren't going anywhere for a few years and i expect some big battles with them in the upcoming years.

I don't know if Washington will be around much longer, I kind of think this is it for them, THIS is their shot.

I mean they are loaded up right now, they are loaded for bear right now.

but if they don't win then they have some key pieces hitting UFA in Williams, Oshie, Shattenkirk and Alzner they can't bring them all back becaause they have to sign Kuznetzov

they are going to lose at least a couple big pieces

 

[Menzinger]

Super teams have home grown talented defenseman that they have groomed in their organization. Reilly is not that guy. In order for the leafs to be better they have to trade their wealth of offense for some defensive help, otherwise they will continue to be mediocre. You can't just buy a number 1 defenseman unless you are willing to overpay or trade way too many assets to get them.

These proclamations of being a powerhouse would make sense if all it takes to win games is high scoring teams.

This "mediocre" team went from 30th overall finish to a playoff berth in a single season and currently leads the An expected cup contender in their playoff series.

Ya'll must have a pretty strange definition of the term "mediocre". They'll be fine defensively too - lots of assets and futures to improve it.

 

[X66]

I don't get how the Caps aren't exploiting that bad D core, but they've been a ton of fun to watch and I love an underdog upset.

Can we get this false narrative to finally stop?

In terms of scoring chances against, the Leafs were in the same tier as teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Rangers and...OILERS lol.

Leafs were in the middle of pack in terms of high danger chances allowed, along with teams like the Capitals and much better than a team like the OILERS lol.

The point is, what is on paper doesn't mean anything.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

This "mediocre" team went from 30th overall finish to a playoff berth in a single season and currently leads the An expected cup contender in their playoff series.

Ya'll must have a pretty strange definition of the term "mediocre". They'll be fine defensively too - lots of assets and futures to improve it.

Last time i checked a playoff series is 7 games, so they have not won anything yet.

 

[LeafFever]

Super teams have home grown talented defenseman that they have groomed in their organization. Reilly is not that guy. In order for the leafs to be better they have to trade their wealth of offense for some defensive help, otherwise they will continue to be mediocre. You can't just buy a number 1 defenseman unless you are willing to overpay or trade way too many assets to get them.

These proclamations of being a powerhouse would make sense if all it takes to win games is high scoring teams.

The guy is playing like a legit #1 D. Better than anyone on Washington. He is that guy.

 

[LeafFever]

I don't get how the Caps aren't exploiting that bad D core, but they've been a ton of fun to watch and I love an underdog upset.

Because that D core is not bad and playing better than Washington's D?
Toronto's D is very underrated.

 

[Nakawick]

A healthy Tampa is at the top of the EC teams as well IMO.

 

[1specter]

Last time i checked a playoff series is 7 games, so they have not won anything yet.

We were supposed to get sweeped according to you guys so this is already farther than HF predictions.

 

[Mitts Marner*]

If this is true, how come all the experts, pundits and soothsayers here at HF gave Toronto no shot. Nobody talked about this, do you actually watch the games?

Because all a media personality has is their credibility. Picking the Leafs to upset the Capitals this year goes a long way to damage that credibility. Aaaaaand because they're playing against one of the two teams judged to be more talented. Seems pretty easy.

Last time i checked a playoff series is 7 games, so they have not won anything yet.

Last I checked he never claimed they won anything. Seems to have specifically stated that they are currently leading. In a series in which nobody gave them a chance to win more than one game.

 

[Kelly]

Super teams have home grown talented defenseman that they have groomed in their organization. Reilly is not that guy. In order for the leafs to be better they have to trade their wealth of offense for some defensive help, otherwise they will continue to be mediocre. You can't just buy a number 1 defenseman unless you are willing to overpay or trade way too many assets to get them.

These proclamations of being a powerhouse would make sense if all it takes to win games is high scoring teams.

I can only laugh at some people's opinions on Rielly. Fact is he's a #1D on a Babcock coached playoff team, and was also one of the best defenseman on team NA. I don't care whether you dislike his +/- or his GA60 stats, he's a really good player and is only going to get better. Babcock loves him, McLellan liked him, and he's only 23 years old! As a defenseman that's pretty young, he's only going to get better, but he's already pretty good. Easily a top pair guy.

He's going to need help, but he's a huge piece for this team.

 

[BK201]

IDK i mean yes but how is sucking for sooooooo long you draft out high end talent and feel proud about this? i dun get it.....

Also i don't think you guys appreciate Bozak enough.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

IDK i mean yes but how is sucking for sooooooo long you draft out high end talent and feel proud about this? i dun get it.....

Also i don't think you guys appreciate Bozak enough.

Derp

That is the last straw you have now....
Before it was "we are too mediocre and old management doesn't know how to properly build har har "

Look at Pitts chic LA.....their fan base is pretty confident and they have been a bottom dweller (to an even greater extent than the leafs)

Fact is, it does in fact take a bit of a rebuild to bring your team into some decent years. (We aren't fully there yet, but look to be on our way) har. Har.

 

[BK201]

Derp

That is the last straw you have now....
Before it was "we are too mediocre and old management doesn't know how to properly build har har "

Look at Pitts chic LA.....their fan base is pretty confident and they have been a bottom dweller (to an even greater extent than the leafs)

Fact is, it does in fact take a bit of a rebuild to bring your team into some decent years. (We aren't fully there yet, but look to be on our way) har. Har.

IDK it feels like Edmonton 2.0 and then they start hyping mathews in the media saying they wouldn't even trade him for McDavid. It's all just hype we all know Pens have more talent than Toronto.

 

[Morgs]

Super teams have home grown talented defenseman that they have groomed in their organization. Reilly is not that guy. In order for the leafs to be better they have to trade their wealth of offense for some defensive help, otherwise they will continue to be mediocre. You can't just buy a number 1 defenseman unless you are willing to overpay or trade way too many assets to get them.

These proclamations of being a powerhouse would make sense if all it takes to win games is high scoring teams.

I agree, Minny didn't draft Reilly, so he wasn't exactly groomed by them, and he can barely make the NHL at all!

The Leafs with Rielly though are fine.

 

[Moorpheus*]

IDK it feels like Edmonton 2.0 and then they start hyping mathews in the media saying they wouldn't even trade him for McDavid. It's all just hype we all know Pens have more talent than Toronto.

Yeah remember that time Edmonton's 3 rookies that were all Calder candidates lead them to being ahead of the President's cup winner in the playoffs and everyone started hyping them up too much?

 

[tooncesmeow]

Yeah remember that time Edmonton's 3 rookies that were all Calder candidates lead them to being ahead of the President's cup winner in the playoffs and everyone started hyping them up too much?

Not even that, but in that year, Taylor Hall finished 9th in rookie voting, Eberle finished 15th.

Skinner won that year with 31G. Couture 2nd, Grabner 3rd, Crawford 4th, Carlson 5th. Crazy how the voting shook out that year and how bad Edmonton's rookie crop started out.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Talented=/=best, talented=skilled. They are insanely skilled, that's blatantly obvious. Only the Penguins and Capitals are more skilled than the Leafs from the East. However, they're not the 3rd best team in the East, not by a long shot. I could see the Leafs making the ECF next year, but that's mostly due to the Atlantic division not really having any great teams in the near future IMO.

Exactly.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

IDK it feels like Edmonton 2.0 and then they start hyping mathews in the media saying they wouldn't even trade him for McDavid. It's all just hype we all know Pens have more talent than Toronto.

Edmonton 2.0? Our rebuild has taken like 3 years to get where it is thanks to really sharp drafting, strong management and some luck winning the lottery last year (any other year finishing dead last would have given us a far better crack at 1OA so let's call that a wash). Now we've gotten our young team playing a tight system beyond their years with the help of one of the best coaches in the game who we courted for this exact purpose. Our GM (Lou was another great pick up by Shanny) also made a very savvy trade to get us a bonafide #1 goalie which makes all the difference.

Edmonton on the other hand toiled in "rebuild mode" for the better part of a decade, had terrible management, abysmal coaching, squandered multiple first round talents, until they FINALLY drafted a generational talent in a year they'd didn't even finish 30th (RIP Buffalo). Oilers rebuild was pretty burtal, but the hockey God's could only punish them for so long so McDavid was sent to save them from their sins. The Leafs rebuild has been an unprecedented success. The problem is that for years the owners were too shortsighted to get behind a full rebuild, until Shannahan came in and put his foot down.

Since when is a competent rebuild something to be ashamed of? Every team is going to have to do it at some point. I don't see anyone dumping on Chicago and Pittsburgh for having great rebuilds that lead to years of success.