Prospect Info: NHL Entry Draft Discussion Thread - Looking Ahead

[FrankGallagher]

Spurgeon. Krug. Girard. Makar on the higher end. There are valuable smaller defensemen, and there will be more as time goes on.

There are valuable players in all shapes and sizes, would not disagree with that. Those are also almost all outlier good skaters which is the key to their effectiveness at their size.

 

[Knies iT]

What is a guy like Andrae's high upside really? A Vatanen or Gustafsson type is really not that valuable of an asset and that's the realistic ceiling on what he becomes. If you can get a guy with a realistic shot at being a Carlo or Gavrikov type D specialist or a Demelo/Lindell type two way guy that is a way more important piece. Points don't equal upside, and many of the defence man steals of late (Slavin, Parayko) have been raw guys with physical tools

Think Ryan Ellis.

Andrae led the SuperElit in scoring by defensemen (38pts in 40GP) but like the other poster said, he's not strictly offense. Similar to Ellis he's short but stocky (5'9" 185lbs ish) and plays chippy with a high-battle level. I watched HV71s pre-season game the other day with Andrae playing 2nd pair and he was in the middle of multiple scrums against men. He seems poised beyond his years defensively (hint Sandin) and I think it's because he's more willing to take physical punishment. I thought this scouting report by Kournianos of Andrae's defensive game is the most accurate i've seen from what I watched:

"Andrae is a beyond poised on the breakout but also when being pressured in his own end and his back is to the wall. He is reliable one-on-one defender with a short gap who looks to deliver hits and battle hard for positioning. The measurements may look like they’re describing a finesse “offenseman”, but Andrae has a very high compete level and it shows in the way he continues to fight for pucks and uses his lower-body strength and rapier-like stick thrusts to neutralize an opponent on the puck."

 

[Knies iT]

As much as I don't believe in drafting for need. Emil Andrea imo would be a bad pick. Undersized, skilled offensive player. We already have multiple of them. We need to draft some solid defensive players, even if they have lower upside in hopes of a Parayko~esque player

Like you said in your follow-up post, always draft BPA, so it doesn't matter what the roster composition looks like right now.

I do agree, however, that we should go with a defensemen in the 2nd round this year. There are so many high-upside project defensemen that could potentially turn into work-horses for their teams: Mukhamadullin, Jurmo, Kleven, Niemla, Kuznetsov, Villeneuve, Andrae, etc.. And that's after the late-1st/early 2nd round wave of Wallinder, Grans, O'Rourke, Poirier, etc. So many options.

With the delayed season and junior league uncertainty in 2021, I think Mukhamadullin becomes even more intriguing. He has a guaranteed spot in the KHL with Ufa after playing 27 games with them last year, so his development won't skip a beat. His skating + puck moving ability for a 6'3"+ shutdown defensemen is rare to find in the 2nd round. A more skilled Kleven.

I'm not loving the 2nd round forwards this year; there's a lot of similarities between what you're getting in the 40s and 60s, which looks to be a waterbug middle six forward type (e.g. Tullio, Wiesblatt, Evangelista, Simontaival, Robins, etc.).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Like you said in your follow-up post, always draft BPA, so it doesn't matter what the roster composition looks like right now.

I do agree, however, that we should go with a defensemen in the 2nd round this year. There are so many high-upside project defensemen that could potentially turn into work-horses for their teams: Mukhamadullin, Jurmo, Kleven, Niemla, Kuznetsov, Villeneuve, Andrae, etc.. And that's after the late-1st/early 2nd round wave of Wallinder, Grans, O'Rourke, Poirier, etc. So many options.

With the delayed season and junior league uncertainty in 2021, I think Mukhamadullin becomes even more intriguing. He has a guaranteed spot in the KHL with Ufa after playing 27 games with them last year, so his development won't skip a beat. His skating + puck moving ability for a 6'3"+ shutdown defensemen is rare to find in the 2nd round. A more skilled Kleven.

I'm not loving the 2nd round forwards this year; there's a lot of similarities between what you're getting in the 40s and 60s, which looks to be a waterbug middle six forward type (e.g. Tullio, Wiesblatt, Evangelista, Simontaival, Robins, etc.).

I think in general there is not a huge difference between what you find in the 40's and 50's and what you will mostly find in the 3rd round. I do think we have a better shot at a faller at 44 than at 50 though.

 

[FrankGallagher]

Think Ryan Ellis.

Andrae led the SuperElit in scoring by defensemen (38pts in 40GP) but like the other poster said, he's not strictly offense. Similar to Ellis he's short but stocky (5'9" 185lbs ish) and plays chippy with a high-battle level. I watched HV71s pre-season game the other day with Andrae playing 2nd pair and he was in the middle of multiple scrums against men. He seems poised beyond his years defensively (hint Sandin) and I think it's because he's more willing to take physical punishment. I thought this scouting report by Kournianos of Andrae's defensive game is the most accurate i've seen from what I watched:

No chance. Ryan Ellis was on another level as a prospect, suggesting that as his upside is insane. Andrae is not even close

 

[Knies iT]

No chance. Ryan Ellis was on another level as a prospect, suggesting that as his upside is insane. Andrae is not even close

What? Are you implying that Andrae can't have a ceiling as a #3 D because he won't be drafted top 15 like Ellis? You realize that guys like Letang, Weber, etc. went round 2 right?

You could make the case that Jared Spurgeon is better than Ellis and Spurgeon went in the 6th round and wasn't close to as dominant as Ellis as a D+1/2/3.

 

[FrankGallagher]

What? Are you implying that Andrae can't have a ceiling as a #3 D because he won't be drafted top 15 like Ellis? You realize that guys like Letang, Weber, etc. went round 2 right?

You could make the case that Jared Spurgeon is better than Ellis and Spurgeon went in the 6th round and wasn't close to as dominant as Ellis as a D+1/2/3.

No I'm implying he has not displayed anywhere near the hockey sense or ability that Ryan Ellis had. That is a potential outcome to reach that level of player, but an extremely unlikely one. Spurgeon and Ellis are awesome, and expecting your second round pick to reach that level is unrealistic. I think Andrae is very skilled but have a hard time seeing him being an impact NHLer with his combo of size and average skating ability. I think he is a great player to take once you reach the 4th round, with an upside of a sheltered 2nd pairing PP specialist like an Erik Gustafsson. For what its worth here are some quotes from an NHL team scout in the Hockey Prospect Black Book.

 

[Knies iT]

No I'm implying he has not displayed anywhere near the hockey sense or ability that Ryan Ellis had. That is a potential outcome to reach that level of player, but an extremely unlikely one. Spurgeon and Ellis are awesome, and expecting any prospect to reach that level is nutty. I think Andrae is very skilled but have a hard time seeing him being an impact NHLer with his combo of size and average skating ability. I think he is a great player to take once you reach the 4th round, with an upside of a sheltered 2nd pairing PP specialist like an Erik Gustafsson. For what its worth here are some quotes from an NHL team scout in the Hockey Prospect Black Book.

Well of course, that’s why he’s projected for the 2nd round. The comparisons to Ellis are more stylistic but also what I believe his ceiling to be, not what his likely outcome is. If you’re talking about his “realistic” upside, instead of ceiling, then yeah you’re probably looking at a 2nd/3rd pair puck mover who can play PK2. More likely than not he busts outright, like most 2nd round picks.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well of course, that’s why he’s projected for the 2nd round. The comparisons to Ellis are more stylistic but also what I believe his ceiling to be, not what his likely outcome is. If you’re talking about his “realistic” upside, instead of ceiling, then yeah you’re probably looking at a 2nd/3rd pair puck mover who can play PK2. More likely than not he busts outright, like most 2nd round picks.

For me he is in the Samuel Girard/Jared Spurgeon range:

-Not good enough offensively to be considered a Ryan Ellis, but still very good offensively.
-Good enough defensively to be better than a Torey Krug or Tyson Barrie offensive defenseman, but not good enough to be considered a top pairing defenseman.
-No glaring weaknesses outside of being small, so he could have high end #3 potential, which is really good for any pick outside of like the top 5-10. Effectively, Girard and Spurgeon's high end.
-Realistically, he could be a solid 2nd/3rd pairing guy who does not need major sheltering and can be trusted with PP and PK minutes.

I would consider him top 50 in this draft, but I do not think he would have been a top 50 pick in a normal draft. Maybe if he had a chance to shine at the U18's or in the playoffs, but as it stands, not having those things hurts his stock a little bit as it likely does with a number of other prospects right now.

 

[Northernguy10]

Like you said in your follow-up post, always draft BPA, so it doesn't matter what the roster composition looks like right now.

I do agree, however, that we should go with a defensemen in the 2nd round this year. There are so many high-upside project defensemen that could potentially turn into work-horses for their teams: Mukhamadullin, Jurmo, Kleven, Niemla, Kuznetsov, Villeneuve, Andrae, etc.. And that's after the late-1st/early 2nd round wave of Wallinder, Grans, O'Rourke, Poirier, etc. So many options.

With the delayed season and junior league uncertainty in 2021, I think Mukhamadullin becomes even more intriguing. He has a guaranteed spot in the KHL with Ufa after playing 27 games with them last year, so his development won't skip a beat. His skating + puck moving ability for a 6'3"+ shutdown defensemen is rare to find in the 2nd round. A more skilled Kleven.

I'm not loving the 2nd round forwards this year; there's a lot of similarities between what you're getting in the 40s and 60s, which looks to be a waterbug middle six forward type (e.g. Tullio, Wiesblatt, Evangelista, Simontaival, Robins, etc.).

Strictly based on hockey sites and you tube, Wiesblatt is described as tenacious and a puck magnet, responsible defensively (by Junior standards I assume) 70 points in 64 games converted to center this year...5'10" and 183 lbs isn't exactly huge but fairly solid for an 18 year old...Would you say this is overblown and he's just another guy in a tier of similar prospects? I mean you have to consider him on his name alone wouldn't you say?...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Strictly based on hockey sites and you tube, Wiesblatt is described as tenacious and a puck magnet, responsible defensively (by Junior standards I assume) 70 points in 64 games converted to center this year...5'10" and 183 lbs isn't exactly huge but fairly solid for an 18 year old...Would you say this is overblown and he's just another guy in a tier of similar prospects? I mean you have to consider him on his name alone wouldn't you say?...

He is legit top 50 for me, but don't count on him being a center in the pros. Good two-way middle 6 winger.

 

[FrankGallagher]

He is legit top 50 for me, but don't count on him being a center in the pros. Good two-way middle 6 winger.

Wiesblatt is a real competitor too, could see a team getting something similar to Dillon Dube with him.

 

[Northernguy10]

He is legit top 50 for me, but don't count on him being a center in the pros. Good two-way middle 6 winger.

Thanks for the reply...Appreciate it.

 

[NCoRe]

Roby Järventie should def be on consideration for our 4th. Will breakout this year

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Roby Järventie should def be on consideration for our 4th. Will breakout this year

Will he really be available that late? Is he not considered a 2nd/3rd round guy?

 

[NCoRe]

Yeah, but one can allways hope.

 

[Knies iT]

Strictly based on hockey sites and you tube, Wiesblatt is described as tenacious and a puck magnet, responsible defensively (by Junior standards I assume) 70 points in 64 games converted to center this year...5'10" and 183 lbs isn't exactly huge but fairly solid for an 18 year old...Would you say this is overblown and he's just another guy in a tier of similar prospects? I mean you have to consider him on his name alone wouldn't you say?...

I'm a big fan of Wiesblatt. He's one of my top forward preferences in the 40s up there with Jake Neighbours. I think he's comparable stylistically to a lot of those other names I referenced, but he has a more advanced skillset and is just better across the board.

Wiesblatt was top 10 in the entire CHL for points per 20 minutes (useful stat to adjust for differences in ice time) and ranks 6th in the CHL in primary assists. He's one of the most underrated playmakers in the draft.

As for his size, he plays way bigger than 5'10". He can/will actually drop the gloves and throws his weight around on the forecheck. That's one of the reasons he's separated himself from the pack in my eyes. Nice motor and battle level to complement his skillset.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm a big fan of Wiesblatt. He's one of my top forward preferences in the 40s up there with Jake Neighbours. I think he's comparable stylistically to a lot of those other names I referenced, but he has a more advanced skillset and is just better across the board.

Wiesblatt was top 10 in the entire CHL for points per 20 minutes (useful stat to adjust for differences in ice time) and ranks 6th in the CHL in primary assists. He's one of the most underrated playmakers in the draft.

As for his size, he plays way bigger than 5'10". He can/will actually drop the gloves and throws his weight around on the forecheck. That's one of the reasons he's separated himself from the pack in my eyes. Nice motor and battle level to complement his skillset.

Would Oshie be a good comparable?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Would Oshie be a good comparable?

I don't think Wiesblatt is quite as physical as a guy as Oshie, but that could be due to size. Justin Sourdif reminds me more of Oshie, and a few websites agree.

Those websites compare Wiesblatt to Kapanen... I think he is more like Bryan Rust with more pure offensive skill. Come to think of it, that would effectively make him like Kapanen.

 

[nuck]

Strictly based on hockey sites and you tube, Wiesblatt is described as tenacious and a puck magnet, responsible defensively (by Junior standards I assume) 70 points in 64 games converted to center this year...5'10" and 183 lbs isn't exactly huge but fairly solid for an 18 year old...Would you say this is overblown and he's just another guy in a tier of similar prospects? I mean you have to consider him on his name alone wouldn't you say?...

Would like to see if they interview his parents at the draft. In addition to Ozzie his brothers are Ocean, Orca, and Oasiz He seems like the type of player the club lacks. Skills and intensity is always a great combo regardless of size. Ditto for Sourdif.

 

[New Liskeard]

Like you said in your follow-up post, always draft BPA, so it doesn't matter what the roster composition looks like right now.

I do agree, however, that we should go with a defensemen in the 2nd round this year. There are so many high-upside project defensemen that could potentially turn into work-horses for their teams: Mukhamadullin, Jurmo, Kleven, Niemla, Kuznetsov, Villeneuve, Andrae, etc.. And that's after the late-1st/early 2nd round wave of Wallinder, Grans, O'Rourke, Poirier, etc. So many options.

With the delayed season and junior league uncertainty in 2021, I think Mukhamadullin becomes even more intriguing. He has a guaranteed spot in the KHL with Ufa after playing 27 games with them last year, so his development won't skip a beat. His skating + puck moving ability for a 6'3"+ shutdown defensemen is rare to find in the 2nd round. A more skilled Kleven.

I'm not loving the 2nd round forwards this year; there's a lot of similarities between what you're getting in the 40s and 60s, which looks to be a waterbug middle six forward type (e.g. Tullio, Wiesblatt, Evangelista, Simontaival, Robins, etc.).

Which Weisblatt are you referring to? If its who I think, I know the parents and grandparents quite well, The parents and grandparents are deaf.

 

[stickty111]

Well back to draft hunting now

 

[hockeynorth]

Amirov
Peterka
Schneider
Jarvis
Zary
Holloway
Reichel
Khsuditnov

 

[weems]

I'm not totally sold on taking a goalie in the first round but it would be hard passing on Askarov if he's there at #15.

Askarov, Schnieder and Mysak are my favorites in that area.

 

[hockeynorth]

If Anton Lundell is there I'd be over the moon