Post-Game Talk: NHL Draft 2017 | Final Thoughts? What's Your Grade?

[93LEAFS]

6-6/220 centre that put up 32 goals in 50 games.

Ranking by agencies.

Ranked #9 by TSN/McKenzie
Ranked #5 by NHL Central Scouting (NA Skaters)
Ranked #10 by McKeen's Hockey
Ranked #10 by ISS Hockey

Drafted 9th OV and I certainly thought he was going top 10.

Are you sure your rankings aren't the one that are off?

McKeen's and ISS (and have been since Stuart Hyman bought them to rank his kid) are a joke at this point.

HockeyProspect.com: 15
Craig Button: 21

I'd trust those a hell of a lot more than McKeens and ISS.

 

[4thline]

Seems pretty obvious the Leafs are swinging for the fences on some huge D who they hope can turn out. If just one of these guys pans out if can totally change the outlook of your team (having one of these monsters on your team is rare, especially in todays super fast game).

Middleton
Rasanen
Gordeev
Greenway
Mattinen

Not a fan of lumping those guy in together, aside from size they're very different prospects

 

[darrylsittler27]

Liljgren will play

Other Gm's couldnt stomach the risk(mono). This kid is a Swedish Reilly but Babcock gets to work him from the get go. But even Hunter said "no braINER". B or B plus

 

[Hurt]

Other Gm's couldnt stomach the risk(mono). This kid is a Swedish Reilly but Babcock gets to work him from the get go. But even Hunter said "no braINER". B or B plus

Mono wasn't the problem long term. It was his coming back too early, getting shuffled around to a bunch of teams and him trying to do too much to compensate for being out for so long. We can't question his skill - It's just getting him on the right path for success and to reach his max potential. I really loved Babs talking to him right as they walked off the podium and then going up and talking to his family.

 

[BayStreetBully]

A+. I love the Liljegren pick. If he pans out, we have a core of:

Matthews, Marner, Nylander
Rielly, Liljegren
Andersen

3 core forwards, 2 core d-men, and our goalie. I'm ecstatic with this draft and can't wait to see where Liljegren is 5 years from now.

 

[Faltorvo]

I think that's over-simplifying it though. A later round pick has what, 5-6% chance of turning into an NHL player? That's not great, but it's vastly better than the odds for someone of the general type of Gordeev. The "size as primary asset with little to no production"-type only becomes an NHL-player as an extremely rare exception.

Of course that's also a bit simplistic, as there's always a number of factors that can play in, and I generally trust our scouting group to be good at identifying factors that might indicate exceptions.

As I see it, we are drafting extreme long shots to fill a style and impact-type of role that isn't exactly a premium asset. Unless we are hoping they turn into Parayko, or Weber, in which case we are talking about exceptions among exceptions.

Drafting is a crapshoot for sure, but good drafting is about beating those odds by finding gems that have a much higher chance to hit than the position they were available at. I'm not saying that's not what is happening here, but the information available suggests the opposite with a few of these guys.

If we do want that particular player type enough to spend pick after pick on it, then I'd rather use a few of those picks to pick up one of those existing pieces. Would cost us a lot less in terms of assets and time.

Again, not writing anybody off, just saying that based on most information available, guys like Gordeev doesn't look like a good pick and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that, while also acknowledging that Hunter and his group might know something we don't.

given their draft slots , these big D we have been drafting don't need to turn into a Paray/manson , heck if just 1 of them turns into Hall Gill, colour me thrilled.

3rd pairing , 7th/8th D works fine with me , gonna need capable guys in the 1m range down the road.

as for rating this draft

it's a flat out easy call


A++

A+ on Lil grin alone , 1 tough season does not eliminate all the raw skill that had McKenzie drooling over him 12 months ago. Hunter called it a no brainer? wowz sold

+ for adding tender depth and some big bodied D

 

[Faltorvo]

Very tough to judge when I don't know anyone past our first two picks. I'm happy we have now built up our defensive pipeline. We now have all types of defencemen. Offensive, defensive, right handed, huge, two-way etc.. It is now very diverse, especially if you factor in Borgman and Rosen.

Also happy we took a goalie. With Woll and Scott, we now have a nice small goalie crop we can develop and likely not need to draft one next year, unless there is one too good to pass up.

Not sure if Kara will be a C or not, but if he isn't, still a little unsure of our centre depth. There is McGregor this year, Brooks last year and you have guys like Gauthier and Toninato. Not a strong crop. I realize at the NHL level its amazing, but hope to see it replenished.

But in the end, your first rounder can make or break the draft, and it like it has the last 3 years before 2017, Liljegren made this draft. I'm very pleased.

i flat out don't care about our C depth , atm

considering how young the ones on the big club are (including willi)

Goat/toni will cover 4th line and brooks is pure extra gravy

 

[showtime8]

CHL Import draft goes this wednesday.

We'll see if any of the Leafs picks get taken.

 

[theIceWookie]

McKeen's and ISS (and have been since Stuart Hyman bought them to rank his kid) are a joke at this point.

HockeyProspect.com: 15
Craig Button: 21

I'd trust those a hell of a lot more than McKeens and ISS.

You're not wrong about McKeen's or ISS, both are not reliable sources at this point.

Though part of me loves that someone bought out a scouting agency just to rank his kid haha

 

[93LEAFS]

You're not wrong about McKeen's or ISS, both are not reliable sources at this point.

Though part of me loves that someone bought out a scouting agency just to rank his kid haha

He also bought an OJHL team to give him prime minutes. On top of that, he bought up a bunch of GTHL teams. He might be the worst hockey dad in the city of Toronto, which is a hell of an accomplishment. Thankfully, Hockey Canada forced him out of it.

 

[Nithoniniel]

given their draft slots , these big D we have been drafting don't need to turn into a Paray/manson , heck if just 1 of them turns into Hall Gill, colour me thrilled.

3rd pairing , 7th/8th D works fine with me , gonna need capable guys in the 1m range down the road.

If our ambitions at the draft is limited to getting future replacement level pieces, our prospect depth will be completely shot and the longevity of our ability to contend with it.

The capable depth D-men can be had on the market for cheap any time we need it. But when guys like Gardiner needs a new contract and we need to move on from him, the cost-effective place to get a replacement is in our prospect pool. If all we have then is depth pieces, we have a hole in our lineup again or a costly contract on our hands.

People talk about guys like Manson, but even he was taken as a big, skilled guy in the draft. He was an almost PPG player in BCHL at the draft, who redefined his game in NCAA when he realized that his skill wasn't going to cut it for an offensive role as a pro.

I honestly don't get some posters here. If we keep spending picks on these type of guys and one of them turn into a mediocre player, you're thrilled? You're thrilled if we get a mediocre or worse return on our drafting?

 

[crump]

Mono wasn't the problem long term. It was his coming back too early, getting shuffled around to a bunch of teams and him trying to do too much to compensate for being out for so long. We can't question his skill - It's just getting him on the right path for success and to reach his max potential. I really loved Babs talking to him right as they walked off the podium and then going up and talking to his family.

He also mentions an undisclosed injury in February that could have had some nagging affect on him as well. Not to make excuses but you don't throw out years of displaying elite skill at every level due to one bad year. Leafs caught a break and landed one of the few elite players in this draft imho.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

If last year was a A, I can't conceivably see how this year is equal to it.

I love the first pick, but he's no Matthews.

You can get an A in math and English too

LOL. I think there's a rule that if you vote below a B you have to turn in your card.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The capable depth D-men can be had on the market for cheap any time we need it. But when guys like Gardiner needs a new contract and we need to move on from him, the cost-effective place to get a replacement is in our prospect pool. If all we have then is depth pieces, we have a hole in our lineup again or a costly contract on our hands.

People talk about guys like Manson, but even he was taken as a big, skilled guy in the draft. He was an almost PPG player in BCHL at the draft, who redefined his game in NCAA when he realized that his skill wasn't going to cut it for an offensive role as a pro.

I honestly don't get some posters here. If we keep spending picks on these type of guys and one of them turn into a mediocre player, you're thrilled? You're thrilled if we get a mediocre or worse return on our drafting?

Completely agree. The draft is our lifeline and lifeblood. There is no substitute for drafting well. We will need to be good at drafting in rounds 2 to 7 as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

CHL Import draft goes this wednesday.

We'll see if any of the Leafs picks get taken.

The only one would be Kara.

The rest are too old or are Liljegren, which is not going to happen.

 

[67Cup]

A mid to late round pick has a very low statistical probability of becoming an NHL regular of any sort. We ought to have realistic expectations for our draft.

You just try to tweak the odds upward a bit with money invested, hard work and intelligent evaluation. I like the strategy of taking a player with at least one clear NHL attribute such as size or speed over the one who is just OK at a number of things

 

[X66]

Of all the giants Dmen the leafs drafted the last two years, they just have to hit on one of them.

 

[Trapper]

Of all the giants Dmen the leafs drafted the last two years, they just have to hit on one of them.

My thoughts exactly.
With Rielly,Dermott,Liljegren (assuming the 2 hit their ceiling and I'm not discounting Gardiner/Zaistev) we just need one of the other guys to hit.

I don't think fans could ask for a better rebuild start.
Like someone above said when building a team, we hit all the key core positions.
Now time.

 

[showtime8]

The only one would be Kara.

The rest are too old or are Liljegren, which is not going to happen.

Could Chebykin be eligible as well?

I haven't heard much of what he's doing, but he should be as well.

 

[Walshy7]

Of all the giants Dmen the leafs drafted the last two years, they just have to hit on one of them.

imagine say greenway-Rasanen as a 2nd/3rd pair man those guys would give other teams fits. Incidentally I think they are the 2 most skilled of the big guys IMO

 

[Johny Drama]

Of all the giants Dmen the leafs drafted the last two years, they just have to hit on one of them.

Exactly. Last 3 drafts we have taken Nielsen, Mattinen, Middleton, Greenway, Rasanen and Gordeev.

One of these guys steps in to make the Leafs in the next few years would be great, if 2 pan out, thats massive for us.
Does seem to be a bit of a strategy that we select a couple of big dmen every year.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Completely agree. The draft is our lifeline and lifeblood. There is no substitute for drafting well. We will need to be good at drafting in rounds 2 to 7 as well.

Yeah. And I'd like to point out that I'm not saying that I have no faith in our scouting, or the draft picks themselves. But the ambition and goal should be to continue to draft well, to get impact players so we can keep replenishing our draft pool.

Of all the giants Dmen the leafs drafted the last two years, they just have to hit on one of them.

And what does a hit actually mean? Because odds are that we'll be lucky if we get the next Oleksiak from picks like Gordeev. Very lucky. That shouldn't be the ambition of our drafting, that should be the effect of our picks failing.

Going for the "big D-man without scoring upside in juniors" has been the least effective, most wasteful drafting strategy of modern times. There's almost no NHL players from that kind of pick, and those that exist aren't good. There's absolutely no reason to be happy with that approach.

Hunter is a scout with a great reputation, so we can absolutely hope that he has identified factors that make a Gordeev into an exception, but being happy with the general idea of getting that kind of pick is not something I understand. Might as well draft every grumpy, self-deprecating Swede and hope to get the next Peter Forsberg. Only need to hit on one of them, after all.

We're a month away from seeing Pens win the cup, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't used their late round picks to search for a high upside gem, and finding Guentzel. We'll hopefully be in the same situation as well, where we've had to move good players and need impact prospects to replace them, not depth pieces.

 

[Dog]

Just get over with it and find sasquatch in the wild and put him on blueline lol. Some hairy 8 foot tall monster! Just imagine the movie beat out teen wolf !

 

[HoweHullOrr]

We're a month away from seeing Pens win the cup, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't used their late round picks to search for a high upside gem, and finding Guentzel. We'll hopefully be in the same situation as well, where we've had to move good players and need impact prospects to replace them, not depth pieces.

You make a good point. And, when we talking about good scouting like somehow we are unique, Pittsburgh is a team that I think of. They find ways of drafting guys and plugging guys in from the farm when the situation warrants. We aspire to and want to be able to replicate what other teams have already and will continue to accomplish. We aren't in any way unique when it comes to this imho.

 

[apollo678]

Yeah. And I'd like to point out that I'm not saying that I have no faith in our scouting, or the draft picks themselves. But the ambition and goal should be to continue to draft well, to get impact players so we can keep replenishing our draft pool.

We're a month away from seeing Pens win the cup, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't used their late round picks to search for a high upside gem, and finding Guentzel. We'll hopefully be in the same situation as well, where we've had to move good players and need impact prospects to replace them, not depth pieces.

To me, it seems like we tried to hit a home run with 5 of the 7 picks (not Gordeev or McGregor). None of the other 5 picks were safe picks...boom or bust.