Speculation: NHL draft - 2014 NHL Draft - Philadelphia - June 27-28, 2014

[Valarukar]

Lists at 6'2" so a big guy. Unfortunately I wonder if he is another case of size overcoming skill in draft rankings. Not that he doesn't have skill, but looking at his highlights he is another that just doesn't wow me. At least not compared to others I see in this range.

He is the youngest player in the draft making the cut by 2 days, so there is that.

Also you have to remember he is playing against men in the SHL

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Pretty badass list by a hf user. Has commentary on all 120 prospects he lists.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1689811

Nikita Scherbak at 8?

Ho-Sang at 70?

Still impressive amount of work in doing paragraphs explaining why he picked who where for the first 120 players.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Also you have to remember he is playing against men in the SHL

I wasn't talking about his production, but just the eye test as he goes up the ice, shoots, etc. And of course only from youtube videos, so take all of that with a grain of salt. But he just doesn't have the same wow as some of the others reputed to be in the range that the Pens pick do to me, and I wonder if his size is most of what has scouts intrigued.

That said he is the youngest in the draft. Three days younger and he would be in next year's draft. So that does mean something.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You are missing the point completely. This isn't about devoting extra efforts and having tunnel vision on one player. This is about using your available resources to dispel obvious rumors about a projected top-10 pick who played much of his draft season with an injury. Teams should know their local prospects better than any other team. Instead, the Pens scouts and rightfully fired GM were too busy obsessing over defensemen (bonus if they played for Portland/London).

Based on what? How does focusing on one area more than others benefit them?

No team should be dedicating extra time or energy gathering coaches' opinions when a local prospect is performing poorly. Their main objective isn't to find reasons to pick Pittsburgh area talents.

There's nothing whatsoever to suggest that the Pens were basing their decision on rumours.

So you think the Pens should be hitting the blogosphere more instead of sending their scouts to talk to coaches or watch local games? How hard would it have been to talk to his major junior coaches to ask about his injury and how that affected his draft year performance? And for the record, many coaches will talk to you pretty openly and honestly about a player's strengths/weaknesses when you ask them.

Not even close. I mentioned Marshall because he's a respected local guy who clearly saw the same negatives that scouts from every other NHL team saw. It wouldn't have been hard for any NHL scout to talk to coaches about Saad, and I'm sure plenty did and still didn't pick him.

Contrary to what you seem to think, you're not privy to more info than NHL scouts, and talking to coaches about why they think Saad underperformed isn't always followed by an epiphany and an automatic Saad selection. There were a lot of other great prospects who didn't underperform and require a coach's justification.

I imagine our guys gave the same due diligence to Saad as they did every other potential 1st round prospect. No more and no less.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I well remember that draft. Many here were wanting Saad at the time, but him being from here was down the list as to why.

First, most here were pissed because yet another defenseman was drafted. Second, Saad was focused on as he was highly thought of, a FORWARD, and was falling from where he was expected to be drafted, much like Maatta last year. Finally he happened to be a local kid.

But like I said, I was here, and the local kid angle was down on the list of why people were upset Morrow got picked over him.

And not all were upset by the pick by the way. Morrow at the time was highly thought of and had dropped as well. He merely was the wrong position among the two droppers.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Getting close to the 1000 post limit so created a part II to use when this one closes.

 

[pensfan71]

Wait how did Perlini drop...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Wait how did Perlini drop...

No one has dropped until the draft starts. Like anything else, differing sites have differing views.

Hockeyprospect has him at 20:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/nhl-draft-rankings/

ISS at 9:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=114013

at 8:
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/draftprospectbrowse.htm?cat=1

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Rutherford, like most GMs, generally prefers to take the top prospect available, but said, “we’re going to really lean toward a forward at this time†because the Penguins have so many promising young defensemen and a quality goalie prospect (Tristan Jarry) in their talent pipeline.

“My preference is take a forward,†he said.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...oward-a-forward-in-draft/stories/201406160058

 

[Honour Over Glory]

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...oward-a-forward-in-draft/stories/201406160058

Yeah, but you know damn well that even if Rutherford takes a forward, people will find a way to ***** and moan about it.

I am curious who he takes, I mean if a bunch of very very good forwards drop and he takes the best one available out of them, I wouldn't blame him one bit, at that point, you take BPA at the Forward position, just hopefully not a center and hope he converts type of deal. I am hoping for a guy that plays WING.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We're taking a smallish NA center with high character who is slated to go to the NCAA for the next 2+ years. "But hey! It's a forward!"

Calling it right now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No one has dropped until the draft starts. Like anything else, differing sites have differing views.

Hockeyprospect has him at 20:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/nhl-draft-rankings/

ISS at 9:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=114013

at 8:
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/draftprospectbrowse.htm?cat=1

Virtanen, Vrana, and Kapanen were all top 10 picks at the start of the year according to McKenzie's cross-section of scouts. Hope the Pens talked to all their coaches extensively.

 

[pensfan71]

No one has dropped until the draft starts. Like anything else, differing sites have differing views.

Hockeyprospect has him at 20:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/nhl-draft-rankings/

ISS at 9:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=114013

at 8:
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/draftprospectbrowse.htm?cat=1

Well hopefully he drops to us

That other guy has him at 25....

And the Pens site is for NA skaters

 

[Waffle Fries]

Well hopefully he drops to us

That other guy has him at 25....

And the Pens site is for NA skaters

Perlini is one of the guys I really like in the draft. I didn't think there was even a chance for him to drop to the 20s, that's pretty interesting that there are some lists beginning to project him around there.

I mean, the fact that this picture exists increases the chance, right?

He looks around 14-15 in that picture and he was already almost as tall as Mario.

 

[Shrimper]

I mostly like Perlini because he comes from a place the other side of the river near me.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Based on what? How does focusing on one area more than others benefit them?

No team should be dedicating extra time or energy gathering coaches' opinions when a local prospect is performing poorly. Their main objective isn't to find reasons to pick Pittsburgh area talents.

There's nothing whatsoever to suggest that the Pens were basing their decision on rumours.

First off, scouts do go to local amateur games, and they definitely went to games when Saad played for the Hornets. Being that they in fact had seen him play and develop, they should know exactly how he plays the game when healthy. What they failed to do was to properly identify or give enough weight to the time period in his draft year when he played through injury and underperformed (or "wasn't trying", as it was spun). That was where the Pens scouts, having seen much more of his amateur games than any other organization, should have had better judgment, instead of relying on whatever handful (or less) games they scouted during his first season at Saginaw.

Not even close. I mentioned Marshall because he's a respected local guy who clearly saw the same negatives that scouts from every other NHL team saw. It wouldn't have been hard for any NHL scout to talk to coaches about Saad, and I'm sure plenty did and still didn't pick him.

Contrary to what you seem to think, you're not privy to more info than NHL scouts, and talking to coaches about why they think Saad underperformed isn't always followed by an epiphany and an automatic Saad selection. There were a lot of other great prospects who didn't underperform and require a coach's justification.

I imagine our guys gave the same due diligence to Saad as they did every other potential 1st round prospect. No more and no less.

This is exactly why you need to talk to coaches. Not sure how many games you think the scouts actually watch, but it is only a small sample of a player's season, and is only one aspect of their job. If the scouts see something that doesn't match up with what they've seen in the past, then they will absolutely talk to coaches, trainers, players, etc. to ask why a player wasn't making strong cuts, avoiding contact on their left side, slower acceleration, etc. Saad should have been a gem that the Pens had the inside track on from day 1. How did the scouts fare on Morrow again?

 

[Penguinzilla*]

I mostly like Perlini because he comes from a place the other side of the river near me.

 

[Farnham4top6]

Nikita Scherbak at 8?

Ho-Sang at 70?

Still impressive amount of work in doing paragraphs explaining why he picked who where for the first 120 players.

The best prospect in the draft at 16! is the biggest question mark for me.

 

[Sorry]

I think a good comparable for Ekblad is Roman Hamrlik. Big shot, good size but doesn't always use it, mobile but not a fluid skater.

 

[Valarukar]

This is definitely gonna be interesting. I think there will be multiple forwards available for where we pick. Do you go highest upside, or do you go with someone a little safer? I'm of the mind to go a little safer. I'd rather have a guy who tops out as an 8/10 with a 20% chance of busting than a 9/10 with a 50% chance of busting. Obviously just an abstract example, but I think there will be guys you can make those kinds of comparisons where we pick. Also, I prefer more cerebral players. It seems like some of these guys that are ranked really highly are ranked where they are because they have really good tools. Having really great tools is good obviously, but hockey smarts are the number one thing I'd be looking for. Just some thoughts.

 

[pensfan71]

Perlini is one of the guys I really like in the draft. I didn't think there was even a chance for him to drop to the 20s, that's pretty interesting that there are some lists beginning to project him around there.

I mean, the fact that this picture exists increases the chance, right?

He looks around 14-15 in that picture and he was already almost as tall as Mario.

I think the knock on him is that he doesn't use his size. He'd end up being a poor man's Neal...like I'm talking extremely poor. But maybe talking to both Kunitz and Neal would round out his game.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yeah, but you know damn well that even if Rutherford takes a forward, people will find a way to ***** and moan about it.

I am curious who he takes, I mean if a bunch of very very good forwards drop and he takes the best one available out of them, I wouldn't blame him one bit, at that point, you take BPA at the Forward position, just hopefully not a center and hope he converts type of deal. I am hoping for a guy that plays WING.

TBH, the complaining doesn't bother me. It is human nature. The only thing that matters is that we select a forward and start digging us out of this hole.

 

[Rico Fatastic]

First off, scouts do go to local amateur games, and they definitely went to games when Saad played for the Hornets. Being that they in fact had seen him play and develop, they should know exactly how he plays the game when healthy. What they failed to do was to properly identify or give enough weight to the time period in his draft year when he played through injury and underperformed (or "wasn't trying", as it was spun). That was where the Pens scouts, having seen much more of his amateur games than any other organization, should have had better judgment, instead of relying on whatever handful (or less) games they scouted during his first season at Saginaw.



This is exactly why you need to talk to coaches. Not sure how many games you think the scouts actually watch, but it is only a small sample of a player's season, and is only one aspect of their job. If the scouts see something that doesn't match up with what they've seen in the past, then they will absolutely talk to coaches, trainers, players, etc. to ask why a player wasn't making strong cuts, avoiding contact on their left side, slower acceleration, etc. Saad should have been a gem that the Pens had the inside track on from day 1. How did the scouts fare on Morrow again?

I agree with this completely. The Penguins failed miserably for being the only team that didn't want Saad in the first round. They should have known he was going to be good because he's from Pittsburgh and stuff. Oh, and the opinion of the player's coach is far more important than such trifles as his performance in his draft year. It's also a well-established fact that hindsight is 20-20. Therefore, if the Penguins scouting staff was remotely competent, they'd draft based on hindsight. Ahead of time. Or something.

 

[cassius]

Rutherford, like most GMs, generally prefers to take the top prospect available, but said, “we’re going to really lean toward a forward at this time” because the Penguins have so many promising young defensemen and a quality goalie prospect (Tristan Jarry) in their talent pipeline.

“My preference is take a forward,” he said.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...oward-a-forward-in-draft/stories/201406160058

 

[Freeptop]

Perlini is one of the guys I really like in the draft. I didn't think there was even a chance for him to drop to the 20s, that's pretty interesting that there are some lists beginning to project him around there.

I mean, the fact that this picture exists increases the chance, right?

He looks around 14-15 in that picture and he was already almost as tall as Mario.

Well, sure, but Mario was sitting in that picture and Perlini was standing!
That was a joke, I don't actually know if that's the case or not.