NHL 17 Information Thread II

vannzee

Ruslan Salei fan...
Dec 18, 2010
492
11
S.E Michigan
Madden just came out...NHL comes out next month...the new NASCAR the same day and then NBA2K a week after.

Pretty sure that I will pass on Madden and im comitted to buying NASCAR as this is their first next gen game so it will be between NBA2K and NHL. Ive bought NBA2K the last five years and love it but havent NHL in awhile. HMMM.
 

nilssont

Registered User
May 27, 2007
1,766
275
Closing in on 600 games on HUT and online versus combined... man in three weeks i have to start all over :laugh:
 

kirby11

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
9,831
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Buffalo, NY
I completely agree. I used ot love hockey games, but it's so boring. I don't know if it's different or if I'm just more aware, but skating down the ice and scoring can be almost too easy when you do the same thing everytime. That's why I like madden and nba2k, the AI seems more dynamic (Ie: They adjust to my style), which IMO makes it more realistic.

EA has A LOT of work to do and that's just in regards to gameplay.



Agreed.

The career mode last year kind of sucked becuase of the silly storyline in your rookie year, but after that it was fun plus they added proam and MyPark which is just extensions to make it more dynamic.

This franchise mode EA added doesn't even compare with 2k's MyGM mode either. Like the fact that you still don't have dynamic coaching hiring (and subsequent effects on player development like in 2k) is just ridiculous.


We all know EA is going to keep doing the same **** till they get challenged by another competitor. 2k kept getting better because they always had to compete with EA NBA Live (which they won).

I will ahnd it to EA, they do a good job on Madden and it got drastically better last year in comparison to 2015's game and this year seems to have improved even more. So why the hell can't they do that with NHL? It's annoying as hell

Agreed about 2k and Madden. Hell, I'm playing an old copy of Madden 25 on 360 (football bug got me with the season ramping up soon) and that 2 year old game has more adjustments than what's currently in NHL. I'm doing a franchise mode, and last week, my RB went off for something like 130-140 yards on 20 carries. After advancing a week, the next team I faced focused on loading up the box and dialing up run blitzes to force me to pass.

Additionally, I like how you can notice the effect of injuries in other sports titles and it really makes you think, "Crap, do I have to sign someone or make a deal if this is a long term problem? My back up at X position is really bad..." In NHL, you can just plug in benched players, young guys, or AHL scrubs and play without a second thought because everyone feels the exact same, regardless of player type or stats.
 

Super Cake

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
31,040
6,481
2nd consecutive year I'm not buying.

It sucks, but EA isn't going to do anythign drastic if they're sitll getting sales. People need to stop buying the damn game if they want to see a change.

I'm sticking to NBA2k and MLB The Show (maybe Madden) for now until EA really steps their **** up

Sorry, but EA is more likely to just scrap the game all together than make any changes if people stop buying.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,136
16,657
Toruń, PL
Madden just came out...NHL comes out next month...the new NASCAR the same day and then NBA2K a week after.

Pretty sure that I will pass on Madden and im comitted to buying NASCAR as this is their first next gen game so it will be between NBA2K and NHL. Ive bought NBA2K the last five years and love it but havent NHL in awhile. HMMM.

The NHL games are not even playable until October when the official roster update comes out. If I do decide to get NHL 17, it won't be a day before this.
 

Joey Moss

Registered User
Aug 29, 2008
36,164
8,012
The only 90+ players should be Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, Doughty, Karlsson, Price, Benn.

And Crosby should be the highest at 92-93. IMO. It's way better when getting an 87 rated player is a massive pull, like FIFA. Guys like Thornton, Voracek, Pacioretty, Couture etc.. should be in the 86 range for me.
 

GWNR

Registered User
Dec 10, 2013
2,786
352
Ottawa, Ontario
Sorry, but EA is more likely to just scrap the game all together than make any changes if people stop buying.

It's true. I'd like to look at sales total amongst the 4 major sports and see where the NHL ranks. Probably isn't a big revenue generator for EA (that's my assumption but I dont know)
 

Super Cake

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
31,040
6,481
It's true. I'd like to look at sales total amongst the 4 major sports and see where the NHL ranks. Probably isn't a big revenue generator for EA (that's my assumption but I dont know)

It is probably last.

It probably goes like this:

Fifa
Madden
NBA
NHL


Hockey is just not a popular sport when it comes to video games.

The developers of NHL are on a much tighter budget than the developers of the Fifa or Madden games. That is why those games see improvements every year.

Yes, the developers can still do a better job with NHL even with their budget, but they shouldn't receive the full blame when it comes to the reason why NHL hasn't really improved.
 

BogsDiamond

Anybody get 2 U yet?
Mar 16, 2008
1,132
79
It is probably last.

It probably goes like this:

Fifa
Madden
NBA
NHL

Hockey is just not a popular sport when it comes to video games.
The developers of NHL are on a much tighter budget than the developers of the Fifa or Madden games. That is why those games see improvements every year.
Yes, the developers can still do a better job with NHL even with their budget, but they shouldn't receive the full blame when it comes to the reason why NHL hasn't really improved.

I think NBA is below NHL. I believe they didn’t sell more than 20K copies.
But I’m sure their PGA title sold more than NHL.

What’s crazy is that when the NHL series first came out, it OUTSOLD MADDEN. That tells you how popular it was.
Now? I don’t think they move 1M copies in a year.
And it’s because it’s essentially been the same game every single year.
The gameplay has been the same since 92. It’s a north-south game with no neutral zone pressure and money goals.
The AI is only challenging because as you increase the difficulty, your CPU teammates get dumber and the CPU’s players get boosts. So when you lose, you don’t feel it’s deserved.

I hate to keep comparing it, but NHL2K3 was the best hockey game out there. I never felt cheated when losing that game. And you could see the differences in player types and team styles.
I hated playing the Wild because it was a bee-otch trying to get through the neutral zone. I had to dump and chase a lot.
If I was playing the stacked Avalanche, I had to make sure my best defensive pairings were on the ice when their top two lines hopped the boards.
I recall a time where I had to travel for work and was gone for 3 weeks. When I got back, I fired up my PS2 for some NHL2K3. The next game on my schedule was Colorado.
I lost 11-2 and it was because I was so rusty. Players like Sakic and Forsberg dissected by defensive guffaws like they were surgeons. It wasn’t pretty. And yet, I had a smile on my face the entire time because not one goal was cheap. And not one player on the Avalanche played out of their skin in an unrealistic manor.

Pop in an EA NHL game and watch how your CPU teammates won’t even put a body on an opposing player. I’ll take control of a dman downlow and watch my wingers literally just stand and stare are their defensive mark on the blueline. Sometimes they won’t even throw out a pokecheck. The CPU can do whatever it wants as long as your teammates are controlled by the CPU.
And then you also have to put up with 4th liners making no-look, backhand sauce passes from the corner, that go through 3 sets of legs and sticks and land perfectly on the blade of a teammate for an easy one-timer.
It’s that kind of crap that drives me nuts and has me putting my copy on Ebay within a week or two.

But I got smart and stopped buying the game every single year. At least not at full price.
I’m genuinely excited for NHL17 this year due to some of the Franchise Mode additions they’ve added.
But to circle-back to what my initial comment, the NHL series is lacking because it doesn’t offer nearly as many off-ice options that the other games do.
I look at FIFA’s Career Mode and I drool at the thought of something similar in the NHL series.
EA has all these international teams, Euro Leagues, the AHL, ECHL and CHL and what does it do with them? NOTHING.
IN BAP, sure you can start in the CHL before moving up the ladder to the NHL. But can I get cut and have to reboot my career in Switzerland?
Can my player be selected to play for an international team?

Or what about Franchise Mode? Can I start off being a coach for the Spitfires and have to claw my way to the NHL by going to Europe, the ECHL, KHL, etc?
Can I be fired and have to wait for an offer to coach the Ontario Reign or a Swiss team?
If I’m doing awesome, will Team Canada reach out to me to coach the World Cup team or a World Jr team?
Or how about giving the user the option of shutting off the GM options so I’m only the coach and I have to deal with the GM’s signings and draftings? Perhaps I pull a powerplay and move to get the GM fired so I have more say in player transactions? What if the owner likes the GM more and my attempt at more power fails miserably leaving me unemployed?

There are SO many things EA could be doing with the various leagues they have incorporated into the game. But there are almost no bridges connecting all these leagues to one another.
Why does FIFA only get this treatment?

I feel like the EA team is sitting on a pure goldmine here with all the possibilities. I’m not a basketball or soccer fan and yet I’ve purchased FIFA, NBA2K and PES based solely on all the off-court/field options that are provided.
I’d bet that non-hockey fans would do the same if the EA NHL team produced similar Franchise Mode additions.

As a 40YO, it’s frustrating to see all these other sports games evolve while the NHL brand is stuck spinning it’s wheels.
Thank goodness there are games like NBA2K and PES/FIFA to quench my GM-thirsts. Heck, I still play MLB2K13.

OFFTOPIC: Why is EA still bothering with an NBA title when they could resurrect their MVP series? There is no baseball competition on the XB platform. MVP 2004 sold 2.5M copies. It would sell 1M in a heartbeat again.
And it had a terrific GM mode as well. Lightyears ahead of most games at that time. Certainly 10x better than the current NHL games.
 

teravaineSAROS

Registered User
Jul 29, 2015
3,814
1,482
I lost 11-2 and it was because I was so rusty. Players like Sakic and Forsberg dissected by defensive guffaws like they were surgeons. It wasn’t pretty. And yet, I had a smile on my face the entire time because not one goal was cheap.

Oh come on you did so not have a smile on your face during a 11-2 loss :laugh:



—"so Rask how do you feel after the 11-2 loss that officially eliminated you from getting a playoff spot?"

—"yeaa you know I couldn't help but smile the whole game because Montreal just completely ****** us into oblivion and they did it with such flair it just made me happy"
 
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bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,984
14,995
Oh come on you did so not have a smile on your face during a 11-2 loss :laugh:

—"so Rask how do you feel after the 11-2 loss that officially eliminated you from getting a playoff spot?"

—"yeaa you know I couldn't help but smile the whole game because Montreal just completely ****** us into oblivion and they did it with such flair it just made me happy"

I mean, it's a video game, not everyone rage quits.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,984
14,995
Thanks, I couldn't find this info.

So there's your answer. Why did EA make Madden and FIFA so much better and not NHL?

Answer: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I mean, yes and no. FIFA and Madden have undeniably bigger markets to sell to, it's like comparing apples and oranges. the FIFA and Madden teams can afford a bigger team and a more talented team. All of that is out of EA's control for the most part. Any company is going to better serve the products that server more people and make the most money.

Even during the good NHL years, their sales were never much more than what they are now. Why spend more money when it isn't going to bring in more money?
 

BogsDiamond

Anybody get 2 U yet?
Mar 16, 2008
1,132
79
Oh come on you did so not have a smile on your face during a 11-2 loss :laugh:



—"so Rask how do you feel after the 11-2 loss that officially eliminated you from getting a playoff spot?"

—"yeaa you know I couldn't help but smile the whole game because Montreal just completely ****** us into oblivion and they did it with such flair it just made me happy"

LOL, I actually did. It was awesome to see how rusty I had been from such a long layoff and the Avalanche took full advantage of it.
To lose 11-2 and not feel cheated? That was awesome.

Especially when coming from NHL2003 with it's cannon shots, ridiculous speed and outrageously unrealistic gameplay.
NHL2K3 was such a breath of fresh air.

Treyarch did an amazing job on that game. They were purchased by Activision shortly after 2K3's release and began working on a Spiderman game.
Kush took over for 2K4 and it sucked. They eventually rebounded fairly well with 2K5 (amazing Franchise mode).

I'm also someone who really enjoyed 2K10. Visual Concepts took over mid-way through and did a great job cleaning up a lot of the mess Kush left behind.
These are the same guys that worked on NBA2K.
If they had been given a year or two more, I think the NHL2K series is spoken in the same breath as the NBA2K series.
 

GWNR

Registered User
Dec 10, 2013
2,786
352
Ottawa, Ontario
I may wait until the game dies down and try and grab on kijiji for 30 bucks or something. I wouldn't mind trying that franchise mode, but god damnit this always happens. I don't want to buy the damn game, but I like playing hockey video games, so I fall for it.

Honestly, I jsut wish they had a competitor.
 

SPV

Zoinks!
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Feb 4, 2003
10,819
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I remember I switched to 2K and loved it too. But even after they went under, I felt like the EA game was moving in the right direction. Unfortunately, it seemed to get stuck in the mud somewhere along the last several years, and every other sports game has passed it by. You can blame it on budget I suppose, but it's more about passion and attention to detail from the developers I think.

I'll say again. Change the rating system; make scouting and coaching matter. Give each player a letter grade for about 7 attributes, and make those attributes change based on morale, attitude, coaching, training, and scouting.

The team should be focusing on bare bones stuff. But instead they are like Homer Simpson designing a power plant. "It's basically the same thing we have now but with cool racing stripes!! "
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,136
16,657
Toruń, PL
I mean, yes and no. FIFA and Madden have undeniably bigger markets to sell to, it's like comparing apples and oranges. the FIFA and Madden teams can afford a bigger team and a more talented team. All of that is out of EA's control for the most part. Any company is going to better serve the products that server more people and make the most money.

Even during the good NHL years, their sales were never much more than what they are now. Why spend more money when it isn't going to bring in more money?
Which is fine, but what continues to grind my gears is that they never take the interfaces of the best parts of these games and integrate it into NHL series. What we're paying for is an NHL 18 beta for a full price NHL 17 game. One year they took FIFA's physics and then described it as "our new breathtaking feature using FIFA". The difference between the companies is that when FIFA puts in international tournaments, it is woven into every game mode while in NHL, it's just a useless side feature that doesn't contribute significantly to any part of the game. Again, if they used FIFA's data and combine it into the NHL game, that would be more worth the money than the pile of crap they can putting out every year. Not only would we have FIFA's in depth career mode, but we would also have better player development which this game HIGHLY needs. I don't play a lot of Madden at all, but NHL can take some visual appeal with the dev team has been pridely showing off the last couple of years within the NHL (for the sake of gameplay, drafting, and playoff beards).
 

BogsDiamond

Anybody get 2 U yet?
Mar 16, 2008
1,132
79
I remember I switched to 2K and loved it too. But even after they went under, I felt like the EA game was moving in the right direction. Unfortunately, it seemed to get stuck in the mud somewhere along the last several years, and every other sports game has passed it by. You can blame it on budget I suppose, but it's more about passion and attention to detail from the developers I think.

I'll say again. Change the rating system; make scouting and coaching matter. Give each player a letter grade for about 7 attributes, and make those attributes change based on morale, attitude, coaching, training, and scouting.

Yes. Sweet Moses Malone, yes.

Especially the part about letter grades.
EDIT: An old NES game called Bad News Baseball had this system and it was terrific. (I loved this game. Despite the little-league theme (a rabbit was the home umpire for crying out loud), it was incredibly deep. Full seasons, injuries, etc. I recall having a great defensive shortstop with a '-A' rating who was lost to injury. The next best replacement was a '-C' and he would boot a ball every game. Great, great game and definitely in my top 5 ball games of all time).

The series needs the following to truly make a leap forward:

  • Larger and more pronounced player separation.
  • Player Types need to be more defined. Kane should feel way different than Toews. Just like you should be forced to play differently when controlling Weber compared to Subban.
  • Connect the various leagues together in all modes (see FIFA).
  • Deeper Franchise mode in regards to scouting, coaching staff.

I used to give them a pass for having a small staff, but I wonder if Treyarch (2K2, 2K3) had a larger team. Or the team that makes The Show?
I have a feeling the NHL team has enough to give us the game we expect.

The team should be focusing on bare bones stuff. But instead they are like Homer Simpson designing a power plant. "It's basically the same thing we have now but with cool racing stripes!! "

LOL.
 
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bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,984
14,995
Which is fine, but what continues to grind my gears is that they never take the interfaces of the best parts of these games and integrate it into NHL series. What we're paying for is an NHL 18 beta for a full price NHL 17 game. One year they took FIFA's physics and then described it as "our new breathtaking feature using FIFA". The difference between the companies is that when FIFA puts in international tournaments, it is woven into every game mode while in NHL, it's just a useless side feature that doesn't contribute significantly to any part of the game. Again, if they used FIFA's data and combine it into the NHL game, that would be more worth the money than the pile of crap they can putting out every year. Not only would we have FIFA's in depth career mode, but we would also have better player development which this game HIGHLY needs. I don't play a lot of Madden at all, but NHL can take some visual appeal with the dev team has been pridely showing off the last couple of years within the NHL (for the sake of gameplay, drafting, and playoff beards).

EA can share ideas with each team, but it's very difficult to replicate what another project did if your team either has less people or not as talented people working on it.
 

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