Friedman: Next Year Is An “All In Year” For Colorado

[JoemAvs]

To win a Stanley Cup--or two. Or you can continue to keep playing fantasy hockey and gobbling up all your nice, young assets.

*And maybe you missed the part where I said this deal is only feasible if Montreal is willing to retain part of both contracts.

There is a difference between going for it and making horrifically short sighted and dumb moves.
You are advocating the latter.
The Avs have 1st round picks, lesser prospect and decent roster players to trade for shorter term fixes that don't clog up your cap for 5+ years with very old players.
There simply is no reasonable deal to be had that includes Price going to the Avs that is remotely realistic.
The moment Price to Colorado would get announced, we already know that Sakic made a huge mistake and that he has to pray that they win the cup somehow or it will have been one of the worst blunders in franchise history...

 

[Boxscore]

There is a difference between going for it and making horrifically short sighted and dumb moves.
You are advocating the latter.
The Avs have 1st round picks, lesser prospect and decent roster players to trade for shorter term fixes that don't clog up your cap for 5+ years with very old players.
There simply is no reasonable deal to be had that includes Price going to the Avs that is remotely realistic.
The moment Price to Colorado would get announced, we already know that Sakic made a huge mistake and that he has to pray that they win the cup somehow or it will have been one of the worst blunders in franchise history...

One of the best veteran defenseman on the planet and the greatest goaltender of this era would be "the worst blunder in franchise history"? Time to put the XBOX away.

 

[JoemAvs]

One of the best veteran defenseman on the planet and the greatest goaltender of this era would be "the worst blunder in franchise history"? Time to put the XBOX away.

One of them is 35 and the other is 33 years old and both are on franchise crippling longterm deals (Weber might cripple Nashville more than anyone else if he retires early but still)...
Both already had their injury issues and odds are its not going to get better as they get older..
It might be time for you to activate your brain a bit and look at the age of the Avs core players and the amount of assets they have available as well as the fact that if not for a ton of injuries, there is a very decent chance they would have made it to the cup finals this year without making a braindead move like you are advocating for...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

One of the best veteran defenseman on the planet and the greatest goaltender of this era would be "the worst blunder in franchise history"? Time to put the XBOX away.

A 35 year old veteran defenseman who is signed for 6 more seasons at a $7.857m cap hit and a 33 year old goalie who had one great season 5 years ago, but has only won 3 playoff series in his 13 year career, who is also signed for 6 more years at $10.5m. The only way it makes sense for the Avs is if the Habs can retain the last 3-4 years on those boat anchor contracts, on top of retaining at 50% of their cap hits.

 

[tucker3434]

Don't let it be side I don't have an open mind, if you can make a convincing enough case.

we agree on Hank
DeA would be useful, and there was mention earlier that Avs D needed upgrade, fess up to it.

If you want to keep EJ and his 6 x 3, I am willing to go there and adjust the package accordingly, if we can agree.

Hank + DeA reduced max
for
BB

NY now enjoys cap relief, so it would have to add, reasonable and proportionate to obtaining cap relief
but BB must come over or no deal.

Other assets not enticing.

Makar fills the role of DeAngelo for us. That type of defenseman isn’t a need. If there’s a type of defenseman we need, it’s the Bowen Byram type.

 

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One of them is 35 and the other is 33 years old and both are on franchise crippling longterm deals (Weber might cripple Nashville more than anyone else if he retires early but still)...
Both already had their injury issues and odds are its not going to get better as they get older..
It might be time for you to activate your brain a bit and look at the age of the Avs core players and the amount of assets they have available as well as the fact that if not for a ton of injuries, there is a very decent chance they would have made it to the cup finals this year without making a braindead move like you are advocating for...

Both are the reason the Canadiens sent the Penguins golfing and took the Flyers to 6 games. Both have plenty of wear left on the tires in the right situation. Look at Dallas right now--key vets like Pavelski, Radulov, etc. are why they may go to the Cup. You need a blend.

With an elite, young core of...

MacKinnon
Rantanen
Landeskog
Kadri
Makar
Byram
Newhook

... all the Avalanche need are a rock solid, veteran leader on defense and a stud goaltender. With that, I don't see anyone in the NHL who can boast a better blend of youth and great veterans... and the Avs would be a top contender as long as Price and Weber remain healthy--which should be another 4 years at least. Let's not forget, Weber wouldn't have to carry the Avs like he does the Canadiens, so he'll be preserved.

The last time the Avs made trades like this, they acquired Patrick Roy and Rob Blake--how'd that turn out?

The obsession with young players and prospects are out of control. The Avs are loaded with them--they need to win a Cup--just not have Craig Button gush about their young talent.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I’m loving how Friedman predicting the Avs will go all in next year equates to the Avs giving up all of their prospects for overpaid vets. Are the Avs also looking to fold the year after?

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

If the Habs trade their elite goalie and elite veteran D and could possibly lose a #1 D in Petry to UFA how can they compete?

Edit:

Elite second line C Danault is also coming up on UFA.

Any GM responsible for losing 4 such players in less than 12 months would be fired. That's literally a championship core.

 

[JoemAvs]

Both are the reason the Canadiens sent the Penguins golfing and took the Flyers to 6 games. Both have plenty of wear left on the tires in the right situation. Look at Dallas right now--key vets like Pavelski, Radulov, etc. are why they may go to the Cup. You need a blend.

With an elite, young core of...

MacKinnon
Rantanen
Landeskog
Kadri
Makar
Byram
Newhook

... all the Avalanche need are a rock solid, veteran leader on defense and a stud goaltender. With that, I don't see anyone in the NHL who can boast a better blend of youth and great veterans... and the Avs would be a top contender as long as Price and Weber remain healthy--which should be another 4 years at least. Let's not forget, Weber wouldn't have to carry the Avs like he does the Canadiens, so he'll be preserved.

The last time the Avs made trades like this, they acquired Patrick Roy and Rob Blake--how'd that turn out?

The obsession with young players and prospects are out of control. The Avs are loaded with them--they need to win a Cup--just not have Craig Button gush about their young talent.

That Patrick Roy comparison is lazy and unreasonable. There was no cap so his contract did not matter and Roy actually had already won things and did not have the same injury issues (atleast not IIRC) that Price had. He also is a vastly superior player...

I wouldn't take Price and Weber for free on the Avs even if the Habs retain 25 % on their salaries.
The Avs got absolutely killed by injuries this season so going all-in for 1 or 2 seasons with two injury prone guys is just the dumbest thing they can do.
They already have a cupcontender. Sure trade 1st rounders and a few prospects to load up for the next 1-2 years if you want to.
But don't completely ruin your team and capsituation for the 3-5 years afterwards in the process. Thats just hilariously stupid.
Avs have the capspace for Pietrangelo.
Avs have the 1st round pick for Kuemper.
There. Better combo than Price+ Weber, less costly and does not ruin your team for the 5 years afterwards. Also only costs a 1st rounder...
And I wouldn't even do that depending on the term Pietrangelo would want.

Avs already were the most talented team in the West before they got completely killed by injuries.
There is no need for a huge move.

 

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Avs have the capspace for Pietrangelo.

So do the Blues--that's why they traded Allen.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Both are the reason the Canadiens sent the Penguins golfing and took the Flyers to 6 games. Both have plenty of wear left on the tires in the right situation. Look at Dallas right now--key vets like Pavelski, Radulov, etc. are why they may go to the Cup. You need a blend.

With an elite, young core of...

MacKinnon
Rantanen
Landeskog
Kadri
Makar
Byram
Newhook

... all the Avalanche need are a rock solid, veteran leader on defense and a stud goaltender. With that, I don't see anyone in the NHL who can boast a better blend of youth and great veterans... and the Avs would be a top contender as long as Price and Weber remain healthy--which should be another 4 years at least. Let's not forget, Weber wouldn't have to carry the Avs like he does the Canadiens, so he'll be preserved.

The last time the Avs made trades like this, they acquired Patrick Roy and Rob Blake--how'd that turn out?

The obsession with young players and prospects are out of control. The Avs are loaded with them--they need to win a Cup--just not have Craig Button gush about their young talent.

And the reason the Stars are where they are right now is because the Avs were decimated with injuries. And the Avs, playing without Grubauer, Francouz, EJ, Calvert, Donskoi and Landeskog, only lost by 1 goal in game 7. Do you honestly believe the Stars win that series if the Avs are fully healthy?

 

[JoemAvs]

So do the Blues--that's why they traded Allen.

Fine I don't want to see them sign him anyways. Just naming a vastly superior combo than Price+ Weber off the top of my head.
Avs don't really have a protection slot available on the blueline left unless EJ waives his NMC anyways which makes acquiring a big ticket D right now a rather questionable move....

 

[Boxscore]

And the reason the Stars are where they are right now is because the Avs were decimated with injuries. And the Avs, playing without Grubauer, Francouz, EJ, Calvert, Donskoi and Landeskog, only lost by 1 goal in game 7.

Injuries absolutely hurt the Avs--100%. Outside of my Flyers, the Avs were the other team I wanted to see win the Cup from the beginning. The Avs have always been my 2nd favorite team going back to the Quebec Nordiques (who were my 2nd favorite team since they entered the NHL). The injuries were devastating, no doubt about it.

Do you honestly believe the Stars win that series if the Avs are fully healthy?

Honestly, not sure. I'd like to hope not--but watching Dallas beating Vegas now--I think they deserve some credit.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Injuries absolutely hurt the Avs--100%. Outside of my Flyers, the Avs were the other team I wanted to see win the Cup from the beginning. The Avs have always been my 2nd favorite team going back to the Quebec Nordiques (who were my 2nd favorite team since they entered the NHL). The injuries were devastating, no doubt about it.


Honestly, not sure. I'd like to hope not--but watching Dallas beating Vegas now--I think they deserve some credit.

Dallas is a good team, so you're absolutely right that they deserve some credit. But using them as a reason why we should abandon our youth movement and go after Price and Weber isn't very compelling when you go on to admit that the Avs were decimated by injuries and it's not clear who would have won had the Avs stayed healthy. The Avs method of building a team through youth and affordable supporting pieces seems to be working just fine, all things considered.

 

[Fatass]

If next season is “all in” for the Avs Little Joe has better get a number one goalie. Imo, if the Canucks don’t resign Markstrom, Sakic is going after him.

 

[Ambisextrous]

Markstrom or Lehner, if not im happy with Grubauer still. Could get an upgrade on Francouz by the deadline

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If next season is “all in” for the Avs Little Joe has better get a number one goalie. Imo, if the Canucks don’t resign Markstrom, Sakic is going after him.

A voodoo charm to ward off injuries would be more helpful than replacing our starter who was 5-0-1 with a 0.922 SV% before he got hurt.

 

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using them as a reason why we should abandon our youth movement and go after Price and Weber isn't very compelling

I think that's an overration to my proposal, no? Abandoning the youth movement would be trading Makar and Rantanen for Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith. The Avs are loaded with youth, and Girard and Kaut are being replaced by Byram and Newhook in this scenario.

MacKinnon
Rantanen
Landeskog
Burakovsky
Newhook
Makar
Byram
etc.

... are all young. And there's still more in the cupboard. How is trading Girard, Kaut and some picks "abandoning the youth movement" exactly?

Edmonton has a youth movement--so does Toronto, Buffalo, New York, Vancouver, etc. The goal isn't to have the best youth movement--it's to win Stanley Cups. I think the Avs are poised to go on a run where they could go to 3 and win 2 if they add the right pieces. To me, those pieces are clearly a stud, veteran D general and a high-end goalie.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

The rumors are that Murray is available, so Colorado should have no problems with getting him.

I'd also try going after John Gibson. Why let his talent rot in Anaheim and bring him onto a contending team in his prime.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

To win a Stanley Cup--or two. Or you can continue to keep playing fantasy hockey and gobbling up all your nice, young assets.

*And maybe you missed the part where I said this deal is only feasible if Montreal is willing to retain part of both contracts.

Yeah, are those our only two options? Gun to our head sort of thing?

 

[Boxscore]

Yeah, are those our only two options? Gun to our head sort of thing?

Of course not. I'm thinking of ways Colorado can add the two things the need most:

Veteran, solid D
Stud goaltender with experience

I'm more interested in very good options and not settling or overpaying for free agents who are just "decent." Weber and Price are older and have hefty contracts--I get it. But they are both still impact players and key contributors. The biggest issue is the darn contracts--Montreal would need to retain a bunch.

That said, it's unlikely to happen, but I'm throwing ideas out there. Personally, I'm not a fan of throwing large amounts of cash at someone like Taylor Hall. That's the Maple Leafs model and they've actually regressed since they signed Tavares to that mammoth deal. They are the poster child for why you should spend your money on exactly what you need and not shiny toys.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I think that's an overration to my proposal, no? Abandoning the youth movement would be trading Makar and Rantanen for Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith. The Avs are loaded with youth, and Girard and Kaut are being replaced by Byram and Newhook in this scenario.

MacKinnon
Rantanen
Landeskog
Burakovsky
Newhook
Makar
Byram
etc.

... are all young. And there's still more in the cupboard. How is trading Girard, Kaut and some picks "abandoning the youth movement" exactly?

Edmonton has a youth movement--so does Toronto, Buffalo, New York, Vancouver, etc. The goal isn't to have the best youth movement--it's to win Stanley Cups. I think the Avs are poised to go on a run where they could go to 3 and win 2 if they add the right pieces. To me, those pieces are clearly a stud, veteran D general and a high-end goalie.

Going after old guys on boat anchor contracts is "abandoning the youth movement", because it's exactly the opposite of what got us to this point.

And, if the goal is to win Stanley Cups, why would we destroy our cap structure and purposefully shorten our window to only 3 years, when we're currently poised for a 7-10+ year run of being extremely competitive? And how do we afford to keep MacKinnon, Makar, Byram, Newhook, etc. when they need new contracts, while also fitting in most of the $18m those two old guys get paid?

 

[Hasbro]

Fine, your no is acknowledged.
lol is right back at ya.
We will likely do 4.5 on DeA, and as his value ups, will move in adv of Nils L following season.
Happy to have Hank backup Shesty and move Geo for value
and did not want Johnson, who you can keep if you prefer his production for that cap hit.

You are entitled to your opinion and its rejection, but that may be shortsighted --- assuming you buy into OP premise of all in, if not that is another story --- as to timing considerations.
Hank is the ONLY quality G upgrade comes to mind that fits the bill, except for MAF -- who is an additional year [exp dr complications] and would require deal w/rival Vegas, not inclined to go there even if unloading MAF.

Bowen Byram in this scenario is not negotiable.

So the best prospect in hockey for Lunquist’s cadaver, his huge multi-year cap hit and a jackass?

 

[Richard88]

I'm telling you--if you add Weber and Price to the Avs today--without surrendering much off the current roster--they win 2 Cups before it's all said and done. This is the type of pie-in-the-sky vision Sakic should be exploring with Montreal. The main obstacle is--how do the Avs make the dollars work? But before I allocate 9 million to someone like Taylor Hall, I'm exploring this. The Avs don't need a player like Hall--and should not fall into the Leafs "top heavy" trap--they need a rock solid, veteran defense leader and a high-end goaltender.

My plan would be to see if Montreal would even consider moving Weber and Price (while retaining salary)--even if I had to "overpay" in assets to make the money work. If the Canadiens were open to the idea, I'd offer them...

Girard
Kaut
Grubauer/Francouz
1st rounder in 2020 (24th overall)
2nd rounder in 2021 (which becomes a 1st if the Avalanche reach the Stanley Cup)

... then I promote, and insulate, Bowen Byram and Alex Newhook to add a jolt of youth and excitement. Lock-up Landeskog and Makar long-term then make your run for the foreseeable future.

I didn't think the DeAngelo (1 year) + Lundqvist for Byram + Johnson offer could be topped, but then you go and do this. What an abomination. May as well go all-in and include Mackinnon and Makar in the deal while you're at it, we won't need them if we have Weber and Price after all.

 

[Boxscore]

Going after old guys on boat anchor contracts is "abandoning the youth movement", because it's exactly the opposite of what got us to this point.

True. But at this point, the Avs are in the mix with a bunch of other young and good teams. They are at this point because they rebuilt with youth--the goal is to take the next step--and you do that with the right, key veterans and impact acquisitions. It's what the Kings, Blackhawks and Bruins did--even the Pens to a point kept adding vets and contributors.

why would we destroy our cap structure and purposefully shorten our window

See, that's the thing, I don't think it will if the Canadiens are willing to retain the 30%. Weber would be 5.5 mil and Girard is 5 mil--soo that's a $500,000 increase for arguably the best, veteran D leader on the planet. Price is a bit trickier--his contract would be $7.7 mil--but I think that's doable if it's the only "big contract addition" you are adding.

I mean, some people on here are suggesting throwing 8-9 million at Taylor Hall. I'd rather spend that $8.2 millon extra on the Combo of Weber and Price--but that's just me.

while also fitting in most of the $18m those two old guys get paid?

This is not even remotely feasible unless the Habs retain--I said that from the beginning. I would never suggest taking on the full $18 millon for Price and Weber