Jimmy Firecracker
Fire Sheldon.
Bozak is just as lazy as Kessel based on reports from this season. Lupul and JVR don't play much D themselves. They don't exactly scream "Babcock guys" to me, whatever that is.
Next trade for the Leafs.
- Thread starter DontPanik
- Start date
Bozak is just as lazy as Kessel based on reports from this season. Lupul and JVR don't play much D themselves. They don't exactly scream "Babcock guys" to me, whatever that is.
Was he great before? No. So why will he be great now? I hate the idea of recycling players that we have already failed with. If we are going to be bottom feeders for a couple of years, at least let's do it with some new guys. Just to eliminate boredom if nothing else.
MikeBabchuk
Mike Bobcat
That's kind of the thing... I don't see this as a bottom 10 team, not a lock for one of the worst in the league anyway. On the cusp? Maybe, but looking at another non-top 3 pick.
If the Leafs were looking to give themselves a real shot at a high pick they would need to move out Phaneuf, Bernier, and Bozak. Say what you will about those players, but they belong in the NHL and will only win you games while possibly not being part of the team in 3-5 years.
So the ideal is not to tank a la Buffalo but not shoot themselves in the foot by icing a lineup you know won't contend but has "decent" players that will keep the ship from going under in the short term but who would not be part of the Leafs' long term plans/choose to move on soon anyway.
That's kind of how the poor Leafs teams of the past few years have been and there's not much sense repeating history. That is if the Leafs intend to actually rebuild. They might have a "hybrid rebuild" in mind and be thinking playoffs next season if at all possible (wait, wasn't that how Burke drew it up?).
I would say Phaneuf is the guy you prioritize moving though. I like him overall and I think he'd be a great fit on the Kings, but it's certainly time he moved on from Toronto.
MikeBabchuk
Mike Bobcat
4th worst coach EVER: Horachek.
Yes, I think they'd play at the level of the 2008-09 Leafs at least, who looked awful on paper but couldn't quite meet expectations.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
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I think you're wrong there. I'd be interested in the case for them not being a bottom 10 team but I doubt you have anything other than Babcock blah blah blah.
I agree though I would like to see Phaneuf moved, that's the best way to make the team worse (if you catch my drift).
I really think Phaneuf thrives under Babcock and his value skyrockets.
I think the next trade will be unexpected (ie not Bozak or Lupul). Would love to take a chance on Skinner.
I think the next trade will be unexpected (ie not Bozak or Lupul). Would love to take a chance on Skinner.
Question is how much money is a 1st rounder worth? The leafs could simply offer to retain Bozak's salary for his final 3 years of they were to get a 1st round pick in return. They'd essentially be paying $ for a 1st rounder and theoretically be improving their own picks by removing Bozak from their lineup in favor of a lesser skilled substitute.
Mitchy
#HFOutcasts
Really hope it's Bozak. His numbers will regress greatly without Le Phil. Hopefully, some team actually thinks he's a good two-way/defensive player and gives up a 2nd + 3rd for him.
I find it difficult to imagine Phaneuf being perceived as improved in this upcoming year, only because I expect the leafs to suck and Phaneuf will be the captain and leading ice-time getter of a crappy team.
Making Phaneuf look better is a tall task, even if he in fact does improve, it sounds impossible to prove it.
Helistin
Dustin's equilibrium
Can't retain more than 50 percent of players salary. Also , how often something like this happens. Not very often.
The free agents that the Leafs have signed scream TANK. They are truly place holders to get Toronto through the next couple of years while Toronto's prospects develop in the AHL. This is the ideal scenario but I really do not think we "The Leafs Nation" will be able to handle the pain. P A Parenteau is probable a great person but he is probable in a position to fail (huge). We are weak at forward, weak at defense, and average in goal. We are a weaker team than we were last year with Kessel. It was painful last year finishing bottom 4. It is going to be more painful this year finishing bottom 2 and then potentially picking #5 due to the new draft lottery.
Babcock is a great coach. The worst thing he can do is coach this team to a less attractive draft pick. This team really needs a Top 5 pick again in 2016 for the long term rebuild. The worst scenario is to finish outside the playoffs with a #10 - #14 overall pick.
We now have a quandary. The worst the team performs, the more the value of assets depreciate. Bozak was a 50 point center with Kessel. He is probable a 40 point center without Kessel. His value is only going to drop. Dion's value is going to drop with each loss as he is going to be the whipping boy. Similar for Gardner. Lupul is what he is; a 20 point injury prone 50 game former star with an albatross of a contract similar to Clarkson. His value is already negative.
Now what are the options:
1) Retain the three players and hope that they are tradable assets at the trade deadline at the likely risk of having their value depreciate dramatically.
2) Trade them now and have the team tank to dead bottom.
Bozak today is probably worth a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. If he puts in a 40 point season as a Top 2 center his trade value will drop.
Phaneuf today may be worth a late 1st round pick, a "B - Status Prospect" and a roster 3rd pairing defenseman (likely requiring salary retention by Toronto). If he is not traded he will get the "Larry Murphy treatment" by the intolerant Leaf Nation. His value will drop to a late 2nd round pick and a "C - Status Prospect".
In the case of Kessel we traded him at the start of free agency and signed a roster player (Parenteau) through free agency. In fairness Parenteau is not Kessel's replacement. Parenteau is simply a roster spot filler. Now we do not have free agency available to replace Bozak or Phaneuf with roster players.
We are likely to start the season with all three players and have little asset value at the trade deadline. By picking up Marincin, Hunwick, and Harrington, Shanahan may have already stockpiled potential roster spot replacements for Phaneuf. None of these players can replace Phaneuf's value to the team but each can fill the #6 defenseman roster spot. I hope that Phaneuf is traded over the summer to get as much asset value as possible.
Why do we not have a new GM; because Shanahan has to gut this team and send it backwards before it can improve. Any GM responsible for tearing the team apart would have his reputation (to the fickle Leafs Nation) tarnished by the bottom feeder team he will have produced. Shanahan has to tear this team down before turning it over to a good GM to rebuild.
richardn
Registered User
Phaneuf has to go. He can't be captain here to start the season. Bozak no rush to move him yet and same for Lupul.
legendinblue
NHL in Seattle
Lupul has no value. He will get injured again which opens up a spot for a youngster so we're good.
Bozak should get a decent return.
Phaneuf I think stays. Babcock likes him I believe.
Bozak should get a decent return.
Phaneuf I think stays. Babcock likes him I believe.
Stigma
Registered User
Maybe this is just a rumour, but.......
James Mirtle (Globe and Mail) said this:
Both Tyler Bozak and Joffrey Lupul want to stay. The Leafs did get some interest in Bozak, and did receive some offers. The Coyotes may have been the best fit before they signed Antoine Vermette.
One neutral source said he surprised the Leafs didn’t accept one of the offers they received for Bozak.
I'd see if a deal could be done with JVR and Galchenyuk.
If it's true that he's disgruntled about not getting a chance at centre, and him needing a new deal as well as Montreal needing a top 6 winger... Then could be a great opportunity. He's of a good age to be a vital part of the rebuild too.
If it's true that he's disgruntled about not getting a chance at centre, and him needing a new deal as well as Montreal needing a top 6 winger... Then could be a great opportunity. He's of a good age to be a vital part of the rebuild too.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 23,746
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If I'm trading JVR, I'd really rather a young RHD.
Someone like Larsson from NJ. Especially if we could win the Matthews lottery.
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Looks like Bozak will be the next player traded. I think it was wise to hang on to him though. He's great deadline trade bait in my opinion. Like him or not, you can't deny he's quite a useful utility player. He can skate well, can play all over the lineup and is very good on faceoffs. I suspect his value would be highest at the deadline so might as well wait until then.
If he has a decent season and paces himself at 20 goals and 50 points again, I could see him going for a late 1st for a team who needs that key faceoff guy for a deep run. Vermette went for a late first, so who knows?
If he has a decent season and paces himself at 20 goals and 50 points again, I could see him going for a late 1st for a team who needs that key faceoff guy for a deep run. Vermette went for a late first, so who knows?
thewave
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2011
- 40,269
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I think that would be a good idea. Not really sure why they didn't move him unless it was just to low an offer and are bargaining now.
Mess
Global Moderator
That would be nice as I would like Matthias as well, but the market for Bozak has to be a small one so its not going to be an easy trade.
According to TSN insiders the Leafs didn't get a single call on Bozak over the draft weekend and while rumours swirled Arizona might be interested at one point, until they brought back Antoine Vermette, which likely closed that door.
Its hard to figure out where he might fit.
It's because Bozak isn't a core player, he's a utility piece and only really useful to a team that's already a contender. Teams are probably not looking to spend quality assets for Bozak at this time of year due to the UFA market.
Deadline is the time to move Bozak. The only risky part is the length of his deal. Wish he had one less year on it, but we'll see what happens. He'll be gone by the end of next season though, I'm pretty confident about that.
Bozak is likely the easiest to move, relatively speaking, so I predict he will be next. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like anybody will take Phaneuf off our hands for a while, if ever, and Lupul is no big deal one way or the other.
