Next Season (OHL-Related COVID-19 Discussion Thread) [Part 4]

[OMG67]

I would like to know how the 3 American teams move to Canada due to the cost involved. They must have accomodation, meals, laundry facilities and all other related. This will also affect the schooling for these young men as well, they may have streaming but sometime teacher/professor interaction is required.

The idea of some teams getting quarantined due to Covid issues and playing less games does not interest me either. I love watching OHl hockey but an unblanced schedule or team omission does not really really move the needle for me.

I personally believe get people vaccinated and let's prepare for the 21/22 season.

The team would move to existing facilities and operate as they would if that were their normal facility. AKA Belleville, Brampton (not ideal - Grey Zone), or even doubling up on the facility. If billeting is the plan for all teams, arrange for billeting etc. I would assume arranging for billets, considering the minor hockey community is so vast, that it wouldn’t be a huge hurdle.

As discussed, our personal opinions on the games being played and format is not truly of significance. You I know how difficult it has been for the 67’s to scale back up after their move to Kanata for two seasons. Imagine what will happen to the OHL should they simply throw in the towel for a season.

 

[sbpointer]

If you were to relocate the American teams within Ontario they really don't even need to move into a super OHL ready arena. If they have training facilities and appropriate locker room space they would work. There isn't going to be fans anyway so the in game amenaties and seating are less important. I can think of Jr C facilities that fit that bill and some of those hockey communities would probably be supportive from a billeting and support perspective. School would likely need to be of the online private variety to keep movement to a minimum.

 

[Otto]

I would like to know how the 3 American teams move to Canada due to the cost involved. They must have accomodation, meals, laundry facilities and all other related. This will also affect the schooling for these young men as well, they may have streaming but sometime teacher/professor interaction is required.

The idea of some teams getting quarantined due to Covid issues and playing less games does not interest me either. I love watching OHl hockey but an unblanced schedule or team omission does not really really move the needle for me.

I personally believe get people vaccinated and let's prepare for the 21/22 season.

This...

The OHL has already said that regular testing of players/staff is cost prohibitive. Relocating three teams would be even moreso. Even billets are not going to do it for free. They generally get a set of seasons tickets, there will not be fans in the stands so that's out. I doubt you would get enough billets to house three teams worth of players.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

If you were to relocate the American teams within Ontario they really don't even need to move into a super OHL ready arena. If they have training facilities and appropriate locker room space they would work. There isn't going to be fans anyway so the in game amenaties and seating are less important. I can think of Jr C facilities that fit that bill and some of those hockey communities would probably be supportive from a billeting and support perspective. School would likely need to be of the online private variety to keep movement to a minimum.

Who's footing the bill for it? No fans=no revenue. If this was such an option teams would already be playing but revenue/cost and profit are the biggest drivers right now. If they weren't concerned about these things I could have seen them starting a couple months ago.

 

[sbpointer]

Who's footing the bill for it? No fans=no revenue. If this was such an option teams would already be playing but revenue/cost and profit are the biggest drivers right now. If they weren't concerned about these things I could have seen them starting a couple months ago.

Rayzor I don't disagree with you but I think there must be some sort of financing situation in place. The reality is there is not going to be any gate revenue in any of the markets anyway this season so if that makes the season impossible I dont see them playing.
As far as my suggestion about some of the logistics of playing in a non OHL market I dont see it as anymore cost prohibitive then playing in your regular venue the costs are just being paid to different people. ( I guess the big exception here would be Flint as they own their arena )

 

[analyser]

The team would move to existing facilities and operate as they would if that were their normal facility. AKA Belleville, Brampton (not ideal - Grey Zone), or even doubling up on the facility. If billeting is the plan for all teams, arrange for billeting etc. I would assume arranging for billets, considering the minor hockey community is so vast, that it wouldn’t be a huge hurdle.

As discussed, our personal opinions on the games being played and format is not truly of significance. You I know how difficult it has been for the 67’s to scale back up after their move to Kanata for two seasons. Imagine what will happen to the OHL should they simply throw in the towel for a season.

Our personal opinions sure do not count in the overall picture, the 67s move to Kanata is not a going to be a major factor when looking at this season. This is an OSEG problem not a league issue.

I believe all these arrangements would be time consuming, the teams may not be interested and why should they move from their comfort zone to accomodate the rest of the league.

I do not think the move will be as simple as some people think.

 

[OHLTG]

This...

The OHL has already said that regular testing of players/staff is cost prohibitive. Relocating three teams would be even moreso. Even billets are not going to do it for free. They generally get a set of seasons tickets, there will not be fans in the stands so that's out. I doubt you would get enough billets to house three teams worth of players.

All of this feels like we're making it so much more complicated than it should be for a few months of hockey. We're almost at Christmas and vaccines are starting to roll out. Yes, players not getting regular, competitive ice time is frustrating, as is teams losing money. However, how long before we just say "give everyone the vaccine and we'll see you in Sept"?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

All of this feels like we're making it so much more complicated than it should be for a few months of hockey. We're almost at Christmas and vaccines are starting to roll out. Yes, players not getting regular, competitive ice time is frustrating, as is teams losing money. However, how long before we just say "give everyone the vaccine and we'll see you in Sept"?

That would be a very costly mistake by the OHL one that could kill the league. A lot of other sports leagues continued to play or found a way to play. College football/basketball/hockey, MLB, NHL, NBA, WNBA, MLS. One of the sports that shutdown was the CFL. All the sports that resumed the owners made it clear they were interested in playing and at the end if they lost millions they didn't care. If the OHL doesn't play it tells me the owners only care about their own pocket books and nothing else. I give the owners credit if they're willing to take a loss so the games can continue. If the OHL owners don't want to play find new owners that care.

 

[windsor7]

That would be a very costly mistake by the OHL one that could kill the league. A lot of other sports leagues continued to play or found a way to play. College football/basketball/hockey, MLB, NHL, NBA, WNBA, MLS. One of the sports that shutdown was the CFL. All the sports that resumed the owners made it clear they were interested in playing and at the end if they lost millions they didn't care. If the OHL doesn't play it tells me the owners only care about their own pocket books and nothing else. I give the owners credit if they're willing to take a loss so the games can continue. If the OHL owners don't want to play find new owners that care.

Can all owner take what will be a bigger loss playing a revised shorter season with no fans? Or a smaller loss just having no season.

 

[Otto]

That would be a very costly mistake by the OHL one that could kill the league. A lot of other sports leagues continued to play or found a way to play. College football/basketball/hockey, MLB, NHL, NBA, WNBA, MLS. One of the sports that shutdown was the CFL. All the sports that resumed the owners made it clear they were interested in playing and at the end if they lost millions they didn't care. If the OHL doesn't play it tells me the owners only care about their own pocket books and nothing else. I give the owners credit if they're willing to take a loss so the games can continue. If the OHL owners don't want to play find new owners that care.

And if they do play people will scream that they don't care about player safety. Owners can't win in this.

But really you can't compare the owners of junior hockey teams to the owners of the other leagues who DO only care about the almighty dollar and not player safety

 

[OHLTG]

That would be a very costly mistake by the OHL one that could kill the league.

...and if they start up and players get sick, then what? After all we've seen, the OHL opening up and having players get sick is a horrible situation, at least with optics.

If the OHL doesn't play it tells me the owners only care about their own pocket books and nothing else.

Wasn't it mentioned on here earlier that the OHL closing down would hurt them financially? If they don't play, that would signal that players health is the most important thing.

Again, the point is that we're talking about moving US teams to Ontario cities (and accompanied expenses), a US-based division, playoff implications, 17-team league, and the list goes on.... but we're almost at Christmas now and cases continue to rise. Not only in Ontario, but throughout junior hockey. At what point do we scrap the season, worry about overall safety, get the vaccines, and say "see you in Sept 2021"?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

...and if they start up and players get sick, then what? After all we've seen, the OHL opening up and having players get sick is a horrible situation, at least with optics.



Wasn't it mentioned on here earlier that the OHL closing down would hurt them financially? If they don't play, that would signal that players health is the most important thing.

Again, the point is that we're talking about moving US teams to Ontario cities (and accompanied expenses), a US-based division, playoff implications, 17-team league, and the list goes on.... but we're almost at Christmas now and cases continue to rise. Not only in Ontario, but throughout junior hockey. At what point do we scrap the season, worry about overall safety, get the vaccines, and say "see you in Sept 2021"?

Well the opened up schools and students still got it and schools are still open. Like I said well over a week ago players are going to get it if there's a season whether you like it or not. If the parents of the players are good with having a season why shouldn't they play?? If the players are willing to play why shouldn't they?? Cases are rising everywhere and sports are still finding a way to play. Is the OHL the special snowflake??

It wouldn't necessarily prioritize dollars over health because they won't be making any money.

How did the MLS make it work by moving 3 teams into the USA for extended periods?? There's obviously a path to making it work it depends if they want to make it work.

Come back in 2021 and what do you have?? A lost season. Fans alienated by millionaire owners who won't find a way to make it work??

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Mason Millman among the 5 players deemed unfit to play following Hockey Canada's 2 week quarantine.

 

[OHLTG]

Well the opened up schools and students still got it and schools are still open. Like I said well over a week ago players are going to get it if there's a season whether you like it or not. If the parents of the players are good with having a season why shouldn't they play?? If the players are willing to play why shouldn't they?? Cases are rising everywhere and sports are still finding a way to play. Is the OHL the special snowflake??

You've literally got cases popping up in hockey around Canada and Europe, but the OHL is a "special snowflake" if they say "nah, we're good, thanks. See you in Sept."? Is it really that important to get a season going despite all evidence saying it's not the smartest idea? Heck, it wouldn't shock me if schools went all virtual come January or February given the amount of breakouts we've seen (both Windsor and provincially). Common sense has to come into play here.

Come back in 2021 and what do you have?? A lost season. Fans alienated by millionaire owners who won't find a way to make it work??

I'd 100% take a lost season if it meant the OHL comes back in Sept, ready to go as close to normal as possible. Right now, doing everything we can to get the numbers down feels more important than "get the OHL back ASAP!" Maybe I'm in the minority with that, who knows. (and I WANT the OHL back)

 

[OMG67]

Our personal opinions sure do not count in the overall picture, the 67s move to Kanata is not a going to be a major factor when looking at this season. This is an OSEG problem not a league issue.

I believe all these arrangements would be time consuming, the teams may not be interested and why should they move from their comfort zone to accomodate the rest of the league.

I do not think the move will be as simple as some people think.

Regarding the move to Kanata for the 67’s, we went from average attendance in excess of 6000 and returned to average attendance of 2500 and that was ina newly revitalized complex! Translate that to an entire league not operating for a year and relate that to how difficult it has been for the 67’s reacquiring fans after a move 22km away with no games missed.

Regarding the move to an alternate facility for the US based teams, it isn’t to accommodate the league. Each of those three US based teams are welcome to sit out the year. That would be their choice, jsut like the entire Northern Division of the ECHL made the same choice. The US teams wouldn’t be accommodating the OHL in any way. They’d be making decisions on how to participate in a league with closed borders. This isn’t a decision to “make things easier.” This is a decision to participate or not participate.

 

[OMG67]

All of this feels like we're making it so much more complicated than it should be for a few months of hockey. We're almost at Christmas and vaccines are starting to roll out. Yes, players not getting regular, competitive ice time is frustrating, as is teams losing money. However, how long before we just say "give everyone the vaccine and we'll see you in Sept"?

First, it would be VERY presumptuous that everyone will be vaccinated by September. Based on my experience in Health Care and all the logistics and supply issues we are currently experiencing, I don’t see how it will be anything close to a guarantee.

Second, I agree regarding why we’re making a big deal out of things. It really isn’t a big deal. Either the league is prepared to lose more money playing in an effort to continue to develop players and help maintain each fan engagement or not. To me, that is the ONLY question. The rest is just implementing a means to get on the ice and compete.

I think if the league wasn’t prepared to lose $$$ playing, they’d have already cancelled the season. I think everyone realizes the odds of fans in the stands is remote or at least not enough to make any serious difference financially. I believe the league has already decided and agreed on scenario’s to help curb costs if/when they get “no fans” confirmed as the mandate.

Regarding COVID, even the Health Minister who has probably gone overboard with her grand claims, hasn’t said they can’t play. They just can’t hit. It is not like they’ve stated they can’t see a scenario whereby the teams would be able to play. Hockey is being played all over the World including in many Ontario arenas.

So, yes, I don’t know why people are making a big deal out of the OHL playing. IT seems to me there are no real reasons to not play other than the significant cost.

 

[OMG67]

And if they do play people will scream that they don't care about player safety. Owners can't win in this.

LOL. Welcome to the two sides of the Pandemic political spectrum.

 

[OMG67]

...and if they start up and players get sick, then what? After all we've seen, the OHL opening up and having players get sick is a horrible situation, at least with optics.



Wasn't it mentioned on here earlier that the OHL closing down would hurt them financially? If they don't play, that would signal that players health is the most important thing.

Again, the point is that we're talking about moving US teams to Ontario cities (and accompanied expenses), a US-based division, playoff implications, 17-team league, and the list goes on.... but we're almost at Christmas now and cases continue to rise. Not only in Ontario, but throughout junior hockey. At what point do we scrap the season, worry about overall safety, get the vaccines, and say "see you in Sept 2021"?

Athletes aren’t getting sick. They are testing positive. There’s a difference. It is not like they are catching Ebola and fighting for their lives. We need to keep some perspective.

The OHL playing hockey shouldn’t be about whether we are concerned for player safety. The players and their families are more than capable of making decisions on their own personal behalf.

The concern is whether they will create community spread and outbreaks. That is really the only issue in my mind.

 

[OMG67]

People need to realize this isn’t about what fans want. The fans aren’t even in the equation for this season.

This is about what the players want and what the league feels they need to do to remain relevant.

Man to man, the players want to play. I golf with NHL players, they all want to play. I’ve talked to my contacts within the OHL and they all want to play.

Team personnel are competitive. They all want to play because they are hockey people.

There is a significant willingness to play regardless of the Virus. I think everyone in the OHL understands the risks and they want it to be as safe as possible but at the end of the day, they all still want to play.

Considering that, anyone who has the opinion they shouldn’t play when the ones with skin in the game want to play, shouldn’t really be a part of the conversation. Those people are completely irrelevant to the conversation.

The conversation should only be “HOW DO WE MAKE IT HAPPEN.” That is the only focus on the OHL right now. They are well beyond the discussion of health and safety with respect to, “Should we play because of Covid issues?”

This will come down to cost and whether the league is ABLE to absorb the cost. That is a very significant question. As pointed out by many here, not all owners can absorb that type of hit. A team like Kitchener is community run. Some other teams are supported by ownership groups that try hard to maintain operations. Not all ownership groups are independently wealthy and not all owners that are independently wealthy are in current strong cash flow situations because their businesses are taking a hit right now.

I’m not saying the OHL will play. I am saying they’ve decided to play provided they can make it work financially. Throw all the other speculation and opinion out the window.

 

[OHLTG]

First, it would be VERY presumptuous that everyone will be vaccinated by September. Based on my experience in Health Care and all the logistics and supply issues we are currently experiencing, I don’t see how it will be anything close to a guarantee.

I didn't mean everyone WILL have it by then, but the chances are increasing of having it available to the masses by Sept.

Athletes aren’t getting sick. They are testing positive. There’s
a difference. It is not like they are catching Ebola and fighting for their lives. We need to keep some perspective.

My perspective - knowing someone who's had it, said how bad it was, and said we all need to do what we can to avoid getting it. At some point, we have to accept that, while not everyone "fights for their life", getting it can certainly affect that person long-term, plus those around them. I won't apologize for saying this stuff is the real deal and that athletes getting it isn't a path we want to continue down if there's no urgent need to.

I'd hope the OHL doesn't play just to stay "relevant." Nobody is going to forget the league if they skip the season. In fact, I'd imagine you'd see more people understanding the reasoning if they said "there are too many risks, let's wait until Sept."

Like I've said, I want to see hockey as much as anyone, but given all we know, it almost seems easier to just wait until the fall and get as "normal" as we can. Why rush this JUST to say "the ohl is back!"?

 

[windsor7]

First, it would be VERY presumptuous that everyone will be vaccinated by September. Based on my experience in Health Care and all the logistics and supply issues we are currently experiencing, I don’t see how it will be anything close to a guarantee.

Second, I agree regarding why we’re making a big deal out of things. It really isn’t a big deal. Either the league is prepared to lose more money playing in an effort to continue to develop players and help maintain each fan engagement or not. To me, that is the ONLY question. The rest is just implementing a means to get on the ice and compete.

I think if the league wasn’t prepared to lose $$$ playing, they’d have already cancelled the season. I think everyone realizes the odds of fans in the stands is remote or at least not enough to make any serious difference financially. I believe the league has already decided and agreed on scenario’s to help curb costs if/when they get “no fans” confirmed as the mandate.

Regarding COVID, even the Health Minister who has probably gone overboard with her grand claims, hasn’t said they can’t play. They just can’t hit. It is not like they’ve stated they can’t see a scenario whereby the teams would be able to play. Hockey is being played all over the World including in many Ontario arenas.

So, yes, I don’t know why people are making a big deal out of the OHL playing. IT seems to me there are no real reasons to not play other than the significant cost.

Im sure there are other reasons discussed above to not have a season.

 

[OMG67]

I didn't mean everyone WILL have it by then, but the chances are increasing of having it available to the masses by Sept.



My perspective - knowing someone who's had it, said how bad it was, and said we all need to do what we can to avoid getting it. At some point, we have to accept that, while not everyone "fights for their life", getting it can certainly affect that person long-term, plus those around them. I won't apologize for saying this stuff is the real deal and that athletes getting it isn't a path we want to continue down if there's no urgent need to.

I'd hope the OHL doesn't play just to stay "relevant." Nobody is going to forget the league if they skip the season. In fact, I'd imagine you'd see more people understanding the reasoning if they said "there are too many risks, let's wait until Sept."

Like I've said, I want to see hockey as much as anyone, but given all we know, it almost seems easier to just wait until the fall and get as "normal" as we can. Why rush this JUST to say "the ohl is back!"?

This is what I know. There have been no reports of high level athletes getting sick from Covid. There have been hundreds of positive cases. The vast majority were test results because of mandated testing, not because they were sick in any way.

That is not to diminish some of the hardships and deaths that have occurred throughout all society. I am just trying to relate apples to apples. In this case, young athletes to other young athletes that have tested positive.

My wife contracted a serious Virus in Europe last September. We didn’t think anything of it at the time and when the reports of Covid came out and that it was spread from China in December, there were no links. Now that other evidence has come out predating that “December from China” and especially human waste and blood samples from donations have identified it in other areas, we are reasonably certain she contracted Covid in Europe last September. She was in horrible shape. Worst she has ever been and she was in rough shape for about 10 days. I understand what you are talking about. Even if she didn’t contract Covid and it was something else, the symptoms and severity was very similar to those that struggled heavily with Covid.

However, we should not look at anecdotal evidence to make decisions. We need to look at the overall statistics, dive into the comparable and make real analysis. As I stated, the players and parents should be the ones making those decisions, not us. If they want to play, let them play. Just make sure proper precautions are in place to ensure if there are infections or exposures to infections they are identified and dealt with in a responsible manner, just like all other businesses that have close contact interactions.

 

[OMG67]

Im sure there are other reasons discussed above to not have a season.

From an individual personal opinion. We know you, personally, are of the opinion that the OHL shouldn’t play because YOU don’t feel it is important enough. That’s fine. Your re entitled to that opinion.

Fortunately, there are upwards of 500 players and thousands of other staff members connected to OHL teams that feel otherwise. Considering those people are the ones most closely affected, I think we should afford them an opportunity to make their case to find a way to operate. We should keep our minds and hearts open to their needs and respect the fact they are trying to move forward in the most meaningful way while also respecting the rules and regulations set forth by the Province of Ontario. This is no different than any other business that supplies opportunity to their employees to make a living to help support their families all while trying to keep community spirit alive.

In that spirit, I’ve tried to convey ways, that in my opinion, MAY offer an explanation as to how it may work or come together. I’ve offered positive views on the accomplishments of other leagues and sports including the positives provided by what the QMJHL has managed to accomplish while both the WHL and OHL are not operating. I’ve tried to include some personal experiences as to my interaction and employment in the Health Care system in Ontario and how that may relate to challenges or opportunities that may be available to the OHL. I’ve made some comments based on other interactions I have had with NHL players and other OHL level representatives and the sentiments they have had with respect to the identified risks.

I’ve also stated my own opinions & predictions and have highlighted those as being separate from the real issues.

You can receive these however you wish.

I think we owe a debt of gratitude to those who have managed to persevere through the Pandemic as well as gratitude to those, like the OHL, who are trying hard to make things work. I highly respect those who have the fire in them to rise above the negative push back from the community and continue to push forward. Ultimately, I respect the OHL as a league and the organizations within the league continuing to push forward and make sacrifices in an effort to persevere.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I didn't mean everyone WILL have it by then, but the chances are increasing of having it available to the masses by Sept.



My perspective - knowing someone who's had it, said how bad it was, and said we all need to do what we can to avoid getting it. At some point, we have to accept that, while not everyone "fights for their life", getting it can certainly affect that person long-term, plus those around them. I won't apologize for saying this stuff is the real deal and that athletes getting it isn't a path we want to continue down if there's no urgent need to.

I'd hope the OHL doesn't play just to stay "relevant." Nobody is going to forget the league if they skip the season. In fact, I'd imagine you'd see more people understanding the reasoning if they said "there are too many risks, let's wait until Sept."

Like I've said, I want to see hockey as much as anyone, but given all we know, it almost seems easier to just wait until the fall and get as "normal" as we can. Why rush this JUST to say "the ohl is back!"?

Is the importance of a vaccine even a starting point for the OHL? There won't be fans for months, it's going to be a very slow rollout to begin with. These players 16,17,18 years old in the OHL wouldn't even be getting a sniff of the vaccine quite possibly until 2021 if it all. So if there are no fans at games, the players won't be around fans what does the vaccine have to do with playing hockey?

 

[analyser]

Regarding the move to Kanata for the 67’s, we went from average attendance in excess of 6000 and returned to average attendance of 2500 and that was ina newly revitalized complex! Translate that to an entire league not operating for a year and relate that to how difficult it has been for the 67’s reacquiring fans after a move 22km away with no games missed.

Regarding the move to an alternate facility for the US based teams, it isn’t to accommodate the league. Each of those three US based teams are welcome to sit out the year. That would be their choice, jsut like the entire Northern Division of the ECHL made the same choice. The US teams wouldn’t be accommodating the OHL in any way. They’d be making decisions on how to participate in a league with closed borders. This isn’t a decision to “make things easier.” This is a decision to participate or not participate.

I did not say that you had to elucidate all comments and try to give us your version.

I was just giving my opinion and do not need an explanation of why it it does not make sense as far as you are concerned.