Next Season (COVID-19 Discussion Thread)

[OMG67]

From a North American media perspective - and thus from a North American public perspective - yes. But certainly not from a global data perspective. If I was a Canadian hockey fan or participant, I'd be worried about health threats from more than just the U.S.. Check your rosters for Australian or Japanese players, for examples.

All professional leagues, including the CHL will be granted approval to play games. There are standard SOP’s for all leagues either developed and approved or in the process of evolving. We need to stop worrying about players and what they have or do not have. IF a player contracts the virus during the season, I am sure there are strict protocols in place in the NHL and MLB for example that deals with those situations. That will be the same with all other leagues with minor variances based on how physical contact is made.

From a perspective of return to play activities, the concern for the CHL is not the players. Once they have an approved SOP for playing games and other player related activities, they will be able to play. Their growing concern is revenue meaning the fans need to be present to generate the revenue to make the leagues viable. MLB is playing their season but MiLB is shut down because they simply cannot make playing games viable financially without fans.

So, the question really should only be when the fans can start coming to games and under what circumstances will that be viable. Worrying about players on rosters coming from other countries is virtually meaningless. They will get a 14 day quarantine and go through multiple testing protocols prior to being approved for play. This is pretty much standard.

With respect to borders, we will see what happens with MLB and the Toronto Blue Jays. If the Jays are able to have their home games in Toronto, it will mean cross border travel for the purpose of facilitating sporting events will be approved under certain circumstances. I am reasonably certain that will be the blueprint for the CHL should they ever get to the point where they can play games.

 

[Otto]

All professional leagues, including the CHL will be granted approval to play games. There are standard SOP’s for all leagues either developed and approved or in the process of evolving. We need to stop worrying about players and what they have or do not have. IF a player contracts the virus during the season, I am sure there are strict protocols in place in the NHL and MLB for example that deals with those situations. That will be the same with all other leagues with minor variances based on how physical contact is made.

From a perspective of return to play activities, the concern for the CHL is not the players. Once they have an approved SOP for playing games and other player related activities, they will be able to play. Their growing concern is revenue meaning the fans need to be present to generate the revenue to make the leagues viable. MLB is playing their season but MiLB is shut down because they simply cannot make playing games viable financially without fans.

So, the question really should only be when the fans can start coming to games and under what circumstances will that be viable. Worrying about players on rosters coming from other countries is virtually meaningless. They will get a 14 day quarantine and go through multiple testing protocols prior to being approved for play. This is pretty much standard.

With respect to borders, we will see what happens with MLB and the Toronto Blue Jays. If the Jays are able to have their home games in Toronto, it will mean cross border travel for the purpose of facilitating sporting events will be approved under certain circumstances. I am reasonably certain that will be the blueprint for the CHL should they ever get to the point where they can play games.

Big difference between MLB and the CHL is that MLB teams are being quarantined, completely separate from the general public... CHL requires on billet families .. families that work and shop in the community.

 

[OMG67]

Big difference between MLB and the CHL is that MLB teams are being quarantined, completely separate from the general public... CHL requires on billet families .. families that work and shop in the community.

Not when they cross the border to play away games. They would stay at hotels. I would assume for the purposes of playing a season, the teams could contract full floors of hotels etc considering most hotels are empty.

For Home Games and regular living, assuming schools are open, which seems very likely, there should be no issues with Billets etc. If kids are going to school, they can stay in a billet home with other kids in the house going to school. The one probable difference may be the CHL kids to schooling from home.

 

[windsor7]

Not when they cross the border to play away games. They would stay at hotels. I would assume for the purposes of playing a season, the teams could contract full floors of hotels etc considering most hotels are empty.

For Home Games and regular living, assuming schools are open, which seems very likely, there should be no issues with Billets etc. If kids are going to school, they can stay in a billet home with other kids in the house going to school. The one probable difference may be the CHL kids to schooling from home.

They is a huge issue with billets n their concens.
U cant ignore it.

 

[Otto]

Not when they cross the border to play away games. They would stay at hotels. I would assume for the purposes of playing a season, the teams could contract full floors of hotels etc considering most hotels are empty.

For Home Games and regular living, assuming schools are open, which seems very likely, there should be no issues with Billets etc. If kids are going to school, they can stay in a billet home with other kids in the house going to school. The one probable difference may be the CHL kids to schooling from home.

So.. to be clear... you are saying that the players can go and be quarantined in the USA, play their games, and come back and resume their normal lives? Under your scenario are the Players and coaches of the American teams also going to be on permanent quarantine?

 

[BadgerBruce]

This is the moment in time where we will discover how well the OHL has prepared for the upcoming season and built relationships.

Stage 3 does not allow the Ontario-based clubs to operate with a meaningful number of butts in the seats.

However, the province left the Stage 3 door open for venue operators to submit plans that will allow them to host events, presumably with butts in the seats.

The key, to my mind, is that the province is open to proposals from venue operators, which in most cases means municipal governments. OHL teams are usually just tenants.

So ... I’d like to think that every Ontario-based team has already had deep dive discussions with the Ontario Recreation Facilities Association, the local municipal government, and the regional public health unit. Each of these four groups (I’m including the local OHL club) will have different viewpoints and requirements, but in my view there is zero chance of provincial approval without all of them onboard. An OHL club that bypasses any of the other three stakeholders and tries to deal directly with the province is likely doomed.

So I’d expect the clubs to already have groundwork laid, and if they don’t, the failure to plan was a plan to fail.

 

[Otto]

If you know how to use them they are effective. But to your point.. most people don’t. Just a suggestion though and I don’t pretend to know all the answers. Not a scientist or a doctor

I had to circle back to this... I am seeing fewer people wearing gloves .. but today i saw a guy, waiting at the bus stop, had a box of groceries on the ground so he had obviously come from the No Frills down the street . .anyway.. wearing gloves... and smoking .. so if there was any nastiness on anything he touched, it's now on his gloves, his cigarette, and in his lungs...

 

[HockeyPops]

Team Sports and Live Sporting Events

• Prolonged or deliberate contact while playing sports is not permitted.
• Team sports in which body contact between players is either an integral component of the sport or commonly occurs while engaged in the sport (e.g., wrestling, judo) are not yet permitted, unless the approach can be modified to prevent prolonged or deliberate physical contact.
• Amateur and recreational sports leagues may resume so long as they do not allow prolonged or deliberate physical contact between players or if they have modifications to avoid physical contact between players.
• Leagues must contain no more than 50 participants total. If participants in a league exceed 50, the league may divide into smaller groups of no more than 50. Players are not yet permitted to play against players outside of their league or group.
• Spectators at all sporting events, including professional sports, will be subject to gathering limits and physical distancing measures, with assigned seating where possible.

The above is taken directly from page 19 of the stage 3 framework https://files.ontario.ca/mof-framework-reopening-province-stage-3-en-2020-07-13.pdf

There are a few issues that probably need to be resolved before the CHL can commence full throttle.

1. Current Gathering limits likely make games unprofitable, although there may be wiggle room here as per @BadgerBruce post above
2. 50 participants in a league will cause problems in an OHL league of almost 500 participants
3. Clarification on whether body contact in the CHL is allowed based on these rules. Not sure if full face shields on the helmets would help mitigate this

Of course, there is also the issue of the US based teams to consider.

 

[Otto]

 

[NOA]

City officials in Philadelphia announced no fans will be allowed at games in 2020 for the Eagles and Phillies

If the NFL can’t manage fans outdoors, even at limited capacity in huge stadiums.. I’m not sure how the US teams in the OHL will be allowed to have fans either. Their crowds would be significantly less but they would be confined in smaller arenas.

Though Canadian rates of COVID are much better, I’m not sure that will mean they will just go back to “normal” in the fall and possibly derail all their efforts and progress. Especially when one considers the fall season will not be easier to contain the virus but rather harder.

 

[ohloutsider]

City officials in Philadelphia announced no fans will be allowed at games in 2020 for the Eagles and Phillies

If the NFL can’t manage fans outdoors, even at limited capacity in huge stadiums.. I’m not sure how the US teams in the OHL will be allowed to have fans either. Their crowds would be significantly less but they would be confined in smaller arenas.

Though Canadian rates of COVID are much better, I’m not sure that will mean they will just go back to “normal” in the fall and possibly derail all their efforts and progress. Especially when one considers the fall season will not be easier to contain the virus but rather harder.

You hit on something there for sure - it is summer, we are all basically outside - fall/winter is coming and we return indoors and the cold/flue season will be upon us along with some other virus, we are on Covid vacation. I sure the H! hope I'm wrong. I hope OMG is right and we are getting better at saving more people and can keep it to a minimal impact?

 

[windsor7]

University of Michigan announced today there will be no season tickets for upcoming football season, if there even is a season and if any fans are even allowed at Michigan Stadium.

 

[OMG67]

They is a huge issue with billets n their concens.
U cant ignore it.

The point is there are options. For example, the teams could rent houses and not have billets. IF the post secondary schools are somewhat shut down, there are residence options.

With all the other outside the box solutions available for other difficulties, there will be other options to satisfy this issue as well.

In the end, none of that matters until such time as fans are allowed in buildings. Logically speaking, once fans are allowed in buildings, odds are some of the other perceived issues may no longer be issues.

 

[Otto]

The point is there are options. For example, the teams could rent houses and not have billets. IF the post secondary schools are somewhat shut down, there are residence options.

With all the other outside the box solutions available for other difficulties, there will be other options to satisfy this issue as well.

In the end, none of that matters until such time as fans are allowed in buildings. Logically speaking, once fans are allowed in buildings, odds are some of the other perceived issues may no longer be issues.

Rent houses? I'd like to hear from some parents on that proposal

 

[windsor7]

The point is there are options. For example, the teams could rent houses and not have billets. IF the post secondary schools are somewhat shut down, there are residence options.

With all the other outside the box solutions available for other difficulties, there will be other options to satisfy this issue as well.

In the end, none of that matters until such time as fans are allowed in buildings. Logically speaking, once fans are allowed in buildings, odds are some of the other perceived issues may no longer be issues.

And where is all this money going to come from doing all this so teenagers can play hockey?

 

[OMG67]

So.. to be clear... you are saying that the players can go and be quarantined in the USA, play their games, and come back and resume their normal lives? Under your scenario are the Players and coaches of the American teams also going to be on permanent quarantine?

It is about maintaining the integrity of the zone you are living in.

For example, obviously the individual teams may be able to contract the virus in their home cities. This is no different than what professional leagues like MLB have identified as risk. However, when they are on the road, they quarantine in an effort to reduce the risk of spreading what they may have as well as reduce the risk of picking something up in the city they are currently playing. This would apply to all teams regardless of where they are located.

In this example, the league (OHL-CHL) would have standard operating procedures for their teams...essentially what they can and cannot do and where they can and cannot go While residing in their home cities. On the road, they are on the bus, in the opposition rink or in the hotel. There is no other approved spot for them to be while on the road. In reality, this isn’t all that much different than in the past except they aren’t eating their meals in a restaurant and aren’t potentially out partying after a game or walking around town stretching their legs.

Hotels can be set up to help facilitate the enhancement of the experience by utilizing their conference rooms etc. They can do team building exercises and theme nights/days etc.

IS this ideal? No. Is it viable? Maybe. IS there potentially a better solution? Absolutely.

Again, this is all just discussion in an effort to understand potential ways of working WITH the Virus as opposed to running from it. IT is not meant to be an actual proposed solution without holes in the logic.

The CHL will be in a situation, as have other leagues, of doing a cost-benefit analysis of operating this season or shutting it down. If what I am suggesting is their actual solution, there will be a cost associated to that solution and it will be leveraged against the costs of simply not operating.

There will also be factors such as reintroducing the league if they do decide to shut down for the season. That could result in loss of fans and additional marketing etc to regain market share when they do decide the operate again. All of that will be considered.

So, even if the plan they come up with results in massive losses, those massive losses may still be better than shutting down for the season.

The biggest expense after salaries (coaches/management etc) would be funding scholarships. Funding the scholarships may be the biggest expense. So, either way the league will need revenue or a line of credit to continue to operate while not playing.

It will be interesting to see how everything works out. IF they do actually operate and run a season starting whenever (October or January), it is very likely some of the operating procedures will be very restrictive and potentially eye opening.

 

[OMG67]

This is the moment in time where we will discover how well the OHL has prepared for the upcoming season and built relationships.

Stage 3 does not allow the Ontario-based clubs to operate with a meaningful number of butts in the seats.

However, the province left the Stage 3 door open for venue operators to submit plans that will allow them to host events, presumably with butts in the seats.

The key, to my mind, is that the province is open to proposals from venue operators, which in most cases means municipal governments. OHL teams are usually just tenants.

So ... I’d like to think that every Ontario-based team has already had deep dive discussions with the Ontario Recreation Facilities Association, the local municipal government, and the regional public health unit. Each of these four groups (I’m including the local OHL club) will have different viewpoints and requirements, but in my view there is zero chance of provincial approval without all of them onboard. An OHL club that bypasses any of the other three stakeholders and tries to deal directly with the province is likely doomed.

So I’d expect the clubs to already have groundwork laid, and if they don’t, the failure to plan was a plan to fail.

I would imagine, the League is dealing with the Province and the other stakeholders have provided their input with respect to league wide issues as well as satisfying local issues. In the Ontario Hockey Leagues perspective, the caveat is they also need to deal with the state of Pennsylvania and Michigan separately. The other two leagues will have multiple provinces to gain agreements and each of those provinces may have different restrictions.

 

[OMG67]

The reality is we have mandated the wearing of masks but I see people with the mask not covering their nose all the time. Meanwhile they are breathing in and out of their nose. Or it is hanging down around their chin or off the side of their ear etc.

Under the mandate, I could theoretically wear the mask as a bandana covering my forehead and I am not sure I qualify as not compliant.

 

[OMG67]

You hit on something there for sure - it is summer, we are all basically outside - fall/winter is coming and we return indoors and the cold/flue season will be upon us along with some other virus, we are on Covid vacation. I sure the H! hope I'm wrong. I hope OMG is right and we are getting better at saving more people and can keep it to a minimal impact?

I think I am right in that regard. I think we will continue to see cases and may even see a significant surge once we end up mostly indoors. I jsut don’t think we will see anywhere near the rate of death that we did previously. If we do, I will scream bloody murder because it would mean the LTC facilities get hit again. If that happens again, someone’s head needs to roll.

 

[OMG67]

Rent houses? I'd like to hear from some parents on that proposal

Teams do it all the time, especially with the Overage players. Players in Ottawa have had their own apartments etc....again, mostly overagers for sure.

IT is also assuming there will be a house parent of some kind. Maybe not full time but someone that checks in on them and prepares food etc. We do live in an age of smart homes with proper monitoring etc. I’m sure they’d be safe.

I think the college and University dorms is a more ideal solution though.

 

[AttackBeacher]

First Ontario league I'm fairly sure to announce any plans...

Release | CCHL to drop puck for 59th season October 1st

 

[OMG67]

And where is all this money going to come from doing all this so teenagers can play hockey?

Answered in a reply to Otto. In the end, there will be a cost-benefit analysis done comparing playing with additional restrictions and the costs associated to those restrictions vs the costs present and future, of not playing.

 

[Otto]

Teams do it all the time, especially with the Overage players. Players in Ottawa have had their own apartments etc....again, mostly overagers for sure.

IT is also assuming there will be a house parent of some kind. Maybe not full time but someone that checks in on them and prepares food etc. We do live in an age of smart homes with proper monitoring etc. I’m sure they’d be safe.

I think the college and University dorms is a more ideal solution though.

I don't think you've really thought this through, especially in regards to the smaller centers. Not to mention the cost of this in say Mississauga. Rent, utilities, food .. it all adds up.

How many OHL cities would have dorm facilities readily available?

 

[windsor7]

Answered in a reply to Otto. In the end, there will be a cost-benefit analysis done comparing playing with additional restrictions and the costs associated to those restrictions vs the costs present and future, of not playing.

Just dont sew that happening.
N the time frame is very small

 

[OMG67]

I don't think you've really thought this through, especially in regards to the smaller centers. Not to mention the cost of this in say Mississauga. Rent, utilities, food .. it all adds up.


How many OHL cities would have dorm facilities readily available?

Hypothetically speaking, let's look at the costs associated to NOT playing a season.

A team like the 67s may have upwards of $500k in salaries between coaches and management that they need to pay regardless of whether they play or not. On top of that, they will have scholarships they will need to pay. Let's say they are carrying 20 players scholarships so that is another $200k give or take. That means the 67s may need to fork over around $750k in expenses to not play.

Let's say for arguements sake, the 67s are able to generate revenue by playing games and they are able to cover all of their operation costs and have $200k left over to pay salaries and scholarships, they SAVE $200k by playing.

So even though their expenses rise, their net loss at the end of the season is lower.

This is why I said the league will do a cost-benefit analysis on different scenario's of viable alternatives to see what potentially works best financially.

If after they do that analysis and they figure there is no way to reduce the losses by playing and there is no inherent future advantages of losing more for continuity purposes, they will cancel the season.

So, yes. My idea may not be viable. However, it is an idea that eliminates billets for a season. The last thing the league will do is have everything ready to go and then cancel the season because of lack of viable billets. There will be alternatives that come at additional cost and maybe other potential tradeoffs but those options will be explored.