Next Season (COVID-19 Discussion Thread)

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OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
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Does your state require you to wear a face mask? Check here

This is a decent website for tracking mask usage in the USA.

20 States have mandatory STATE-WIDE requirements with at minimum wearing a mask in all public areas.

Then there are many other states that have certain regulation surrounding use. Many of the states have larger Cities and counties that require them in that particular county OR have exemptions for counties with low numbers of active cases. For example, Florida does not have a State-wide mandate but most municipalities have mandates in place. Colorado doesn’t but Denver, Boulder and Aspen do have mandates. Same with New York, Connecticut, Arizona, New Hampshire and North Carolina.

The States that do have the mandates tend to be the larger population states such as:
California
New Jersey
Michigan
Illinois
Virginia
Maryland
Minnesota
Pennsylvania
Texas
Washington

The point is, many of the States (As well as populous counties), a lot of them in poor statistical situations, have had Universal masking in place for quite some time.

My problem is if we institute masking and it only creates a false sense of security, are we lessening the “physical distancing” requirements? OF course, that is not the case but people will naturally start to get much closer than 6 feet. IF physical distancing without masks has been successful, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Are we opening ourselves up to potential risk? Masks seem to have done relatively little to nothing in the United States.
 

windsor7

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
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Does your state require you to wear a face mask? Check here

This is a decent website for tracking mask usage in the USA.

20 States have mandatory STATE-WIDE requirements with at minimum wearing a mask in all public areas.

Then there are many other states that have certain regulation surrounding use. Many of the states have larger Cities and counties that require them in that particular county OR have exemptions for counties with low numbers of active cases. For example, Florida does not have a State-wide mandate but most municipalities have mandates in place. Colorado doesn’t but Denver, Boulder and Aspen do have mandates. Same with New York, Connecticut, Arizona, New Hampshire and North Carolina.

The States that do have the mandates tend to be the larger population states such as:
California
New Jersey
Michigan
Illinois
Virginia
Maryland
Minnesota
Pennsylvania
Texas
Washington

The point is, many of the States (As well as populous counties), a lot of them in poor statistical situations, have had Universal masking in place for quite some time.

My problem is if we institute masking and it only creates a false sense of security, are we lessening the “physical distancing” requirements? OF course, that is not the case but people will naturally start to get much closer than 6 feet. IF physical distancing without masks has been successful, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Are we opening ourselves up to potential risk? Masks seem to have done relatively little to nothing in the United States.

Absolutely backwards thinking!
 

HockeyPops

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Aug 20, 2018
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There are so many differences between Canada and the US when it comes to how they have dealt with this virus (never mind differences between states or even between districts within a state or province), it is strange to single out one thing (mask mandate) and draw any kind of conclusion on the efficacy of that policy. Public Health Agencies are unanimous in their agreement that masks make a difference.

Just to compare, Florida has been in Phase 2 of their reopening for a month. Max gatherings 50 people. Arenas, movie theatres and other large venues at 50% capacity. Bars and restaurants at 100% outdoor capacity and 50% indoor capacity (although they recently closed bars again). See the link below for a good summary of their "restrictions".

Here’s what to expect as Florida enters phase 2 of reopening

Pretty sure most of the spread in Florida is not happening between two mask wearing individuals in Walmart.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Masks seem to have done relatively little to nothing in the United States.

Because it's not just about masks....

Do you just get the oil changed in your car and expect it to keep running well? Or do you get regular maintenance , rotate the tires replace the wipers.. etc...
 
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OMG67

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Because it's not just about masks....

Then what is it about?

You are pointing to reopening too soon. Valid point except the businesses require you to wear a mask in their store to stop the spread. Logically, you cannot suggest opening busonesses too soon is a significant factor if wearing masks help stop the spread.

Then in Ontario, essential businesses (businesses where people go on a regular basis) didn't require masks, were open to foot traffic and we in Ontario see no real issue.

So what is the problem in the United States?

I don't expect you to have the answer. However, if we take the easy route and simply say they opened up tooo quickly but took good precautions when they opened, how does that potentially affect us? Is a mask a false sense of security? Does it do anything if people aren't properly washing them?

I think this issue is at step one in the evaluation. Yes, masks can have a positive effect but not if they are not worn properly, aren't washed properly or enough, people touch them all the time etc....

I think there may be an unintended consequence that is not being considered with respect to masks. It would be good to get more info.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
The States that do have the mandates tend to be the larger population states such as:
California
New Jersey
Michigan
Illinois
Virginia
Maryland
Minnesota
Pennsylvania
Texas
Washington

Michigan - However, the executive order specifically states that people who fail to wear masks cannot be criminally charged. Whitmer states that her "fervent hope is that people take this seriously."

Illinois - Gov. JB Pritzker says enforcement will be at the local level, and police will not be arresting or fining people who don't comply.

Virginia - There is no legal enforcement for this order

Pennsylvania - As of July 1

Texas - As of July 3, all residents wear a face covering in public, though counties with 20 or fewer active cases of the coronavirus can be exempt from the order. Those who don't comply will be given a warning, but repeat offenders can face a $250 fine.

So you've gone from "most" to 20 .. and 2 of those were just recent in the last few days .. and another 3 specifically say it's not enforceable ... and I'd be surprised if it was being enforced with any regularity in any of the other states.

After closing, then re-opening , then issuing mask orders AFTER things got out of control I'm guessing the residents don't have a whole lot of faith in what they are being told .. which is why it continues to get worse. It's also why the NHL is choosing two Canadian hub cities for when they resume play, and why the OHL most likely will look very different in the upcoming season.
 
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Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Then what is it about?

You are pointing to reopening too soon. Valid point except the businesses require you to wear a mask in their store to stop the spread. Logically, you cannot suggest opening busonesses too soon is a significant factor if wearing masks help stop the spread.

Then in Ontario, essential businesses (businesses where people go on a regular basis) didn't require masks, were open to foot traffic and we in Ontario see no real issue.

So what is the problem in the United States?

I don't expect you to have the answer. However, if we take the easy route and simply say they opened up tooo quickly but took good precautions when they opened, how does that potentially affect us? Is a mask a false sense of security? Does it do anything if people aren't properly washing them?

I think this issue is at step one in the evaluation. Yes, masks can have a positive effect but not if they are not worn properly, aren't washed properly or enough, people touch them all the time etc....

I think there may be an unintended consequence that is not being considered with respect to masks. It would be good to get more info.

Again.. from the other thread ..

Here's something US coronavirus infections rising in 36 states as July Fourth weekend starts

"Whether it's restricting travel or staying home or testing a lot of people or wearing a mask. And those are all important, but none of them, in and of themselves are going to control this," he said. "You basically need to physically distance. The three Ws: wear a mask, wash your hands, watch your distance, and you need to box the virus in with strategic testing, effective isolation, rapid contact tracing and supportive quarantine. We're not doing that yet in most of the country."
 
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MJ5

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"Mask" are required at a lot of places, but very few people take is seriously.

I'd say in April when I went to the grocery store about 90%+ people were wearing mask.

Now its probably under 40%. People don't care about others.

They needed to come out and say "wear a mask protect yourself", instead they said if you "wear a mask, you can protect others". People suck, if its not about them, they don't care.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
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Michigan - However, the executive order specifically states that people who fail to wear masks cannot be criminally charged. Whitmer states that her "fervent hope is that people take this seriously."

Illinois - Gov. JB Pritzker says enforcement will be at the local level, and police will not be arresting or fining people who don't comply.

Virginia - There is no legal enforcement for this order

Pennsylvania - As of July 1

Texas - As of July 3, all residents wear a face covering in public, though counties with 20 or fewer active cases of the coronavirus can be exempt from the order. Those who don't comply will be given a warning, but repeat offenders can face a $250 fine.

So you've gone from "most" to 20 .. and 2 of those were just recent in the last few days .. and another 3 specifically say it's not enforceable ... and I'd be surprised if it was being enforced with any regularity in any of the other states.

After closing, then re-opening , then issuing mask orders AFTER things got out of control I'm guessing the residents don't have a whole lot of faith in what they are being told .. which is why it continues to get worse. It's also why the NHL is choosing two Canadian hub cities for when they resume play, and why the OHL most likely will look very different in the upcoming season.


I’m at the point of not caring what you do or do not believe.

You choose to weasel your way out of the FACT the masks are required and that businesses enforce the regulation at point of entry.

There are 20 States that mandate it and many states that have their populated zone require it municipally. That is a FACT. 45 States have some form of requirement. That is a FACT.

IF you are suggesting that Americans are simply ignoring this and the businesses are ignoring it and everyone is ignoring it, I don’t know what to tell you.

Masks are not mandatory in Ontario. FACT. Numbers in Ontario have gone down dramatically. FACT.

When I go to stores I see about 1 in 8 wearing masks (anecdotal observation). Any store I go into that do require a mask, I wear one and have not seen or heard anyone complain (anecdotal observation).

There is a ton more shaming on Social Media in the United States surrounding people not wearing masks as in “How dare people go out without a mask,” compared to Ontario (Ottawa).

There are TWO main instructions with respect to helping stop the spread:
1> Social Distance
2> Wash and sanitize your hands

I like to think we in Ontario have done both of these well which is why our numbers are low.

Are the Americans dirty pigs that don’t wash themselves? Maybe. Are they gathering in large groups? Maybe. Are they walking around holding hands and giving each other high fives? Maybe.

I like to think the differences between Americans and Canadians are relatively little. Maybe some of the American posters on this forum would like to weigh in on their experiences with respect to mask wearing? As of right now, you are assuming the vast majority of Americans are simply ignoring the Masking regulations including businesses enforcing it. I don’t think that is the case but maybe one or two of our American friends can confirm.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
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"Mask" are required at a lot of places, but very few people take is seriously.

I'd say in April when I went to the grocery store about 90%+ people were wearing mask.

Now its probably under 40%. People don't care about others.

They needed to come out and say "wear a mask protect yourself", instead they said if you "wear a mask, you can protect others". People suck, if its not about them, they don't care.

Where do you live?
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
6,748
Michigan - However, the executive order specifically states that people who fail to wear masks cannot be criminally charged. Whitmer states that her "fervent hope is that people take this seriously."

Illinois - Gov. JB Pritzker says enforcement will be at the local level, and police will not be arresting or fining people who don't comply.

Virginia - There is no legal enforcement for this order

Pennsylvania - As of July 1

Texas - As of July 3, all residents wear a face covering in public, though counties with 20 or fewer active cases of the coronavirus can be exempt from the order. Those who don't comply will be given a warning, but repeat offenders can face a $250 fine.

So you've gone from "most" to 20 .. and 2 of those were just recent in the last few days .. and another 3 specifically say it's not enforceable ... and I'd be surprised if it was being enforced with any regularity in any of the other states.

After closing, then re-opening , then issuing mask orders AFTER things got out of control I'm guessing the residents don't have a whole lot of faith in what they are being told .. which is why it continues to get worse. It's also why the NHL is choosing two Canadian hub cities for when they resume play, and why the OHL most likely will look very different in the upcoming season.

Hawaii - April 17
New Jersey - April 8
Connecticut - April 20
Michigan - April 24
Illinois - May 1
Kentucky - May 11
Virginia - May 26
Delaware - MAy 1
Florida - Most Municipalities (including ORange County) early May
Idaho - starts July 4
Maine - April 30
Massachusetts - May 6
Maryland - April 15
Minnesota - June 1
Mississippi - May 12 (in outbreak counties)
Nebraska - a lot of county regulations on various dates
New Hampshire - May 22 (Nashua County)
New Mexico - May 16
Pennsylvania - July 1
Rhode Island - May 8
Texas - July 3
Washington - no date found

“It is recommended that wearing a face covering is not a substitute for social distancing and hand washing.”

My point is it is possible that people are using the face mask more as a crutch and as a result they are not doing the other recommended instructions, thus causing higher spread.

In Ontario, people have social distanced and probably been diligent with hand washing and the numbers have gone down. IF we institute face masks as mandatory, are we opening ourselves up to people ignoring the other two instructions?

We saw numerous protests in the United States. Everyone seemed to be wearing a mask. Loads of new cases reported. How effective are non-medical masks? They are effective provided they are used properly, sanitized regularly and we aren’t touching them, pulling them down to take an break form restricted breathing etc.

So if people start wearing masks, what are the unintended consequences that will undoubtably come with that?
 

ohloutsider

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Jan 13, 2016
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I'm presently in Seeleys Bay - local grocery store, drug store, gas bar, medical center, vet office all Require Masks and I've seen them ask people to leave ( gas bar) if they are not wearing one. They are not providing free masks. Everyone in this small community seems to have a mask readily available. There are no cases here and yet people seem to still be taking it serious. In the US it does not seem they do and my opinion is you only have to look at their leader.
 
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Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
I’m at the point of not caring what you do or do not believe.

I figured you were there in April

You choose to weasel your way out of the FACT the masks are required and that businesses enforce the regulation at point of entry.

How do you know that USA businesses are enforcing at the point of entry? Just because some governments require it doesn't make it a fact that it's happening

There are 20 States that mandate it and many states that have their populated zone require it municipally. That is a FACT. 45 States have some form of requirement. That is a FACT.

Again, not disputing that it's a requirement.. I'm disputing your comments that it means it's happening..

IF you are suggesting that Americans are simply ignoring this and the businesses are ignoring it and everyone is ignoring it, I don’t know what to tell you.

In some areas.. yes that's exactly what I am saying.. you would have to be very naïve to believe otherwise

Masks are not mandatory in Ontario. FACT. Numbers in Ontario have gone down dramatically. FACT.

Again.. not disputing that... the numbers have gone down considerably because of the measures taken by the Federal and Provincial governments and people for the most part following directions.. except for a nail salon in Kingston and a Farm in Essex county.

When I go to stores I see about 1 in 8 wearing masks (anecdotal observation). Any store I go into that do require a mask, I wear one and have not seen or heard anyone complain (anecdotal observation).

Except Costco..

There is a ton more shaming on Social Media in the United States surrounding people not wearing masks as in “How dare people go out without a mask,” compared to Ontario (Ottawa).

Unscientific observation...

There are TWO main instructions with respect to helping stop the spread:
1> Social Distance
2> Wash and sanitize your hands

I like to think we in Ontario have done both of these well which is why our numbers are low.

And one of the best ways to ensure social distancing was to make sure that non-essential businesses were closed to prevent the spread.

Are the Americans dirty pigs that don’t wash themselves? Maybe.

I would say no

Are they gathering in large groups? Maybe.

This has happened a lot and there have been numerous news stories regarding this.

Are they walking around holding hands and giving each other high fives? Maybe.

In certain areas... wouldn't surprise me

I like to think the differences between Americans and Canadians are relatively little. Maybe some of the American posters on this forum would like to weigh in on their experiences with respect to mask wearing? As of right now, you are assuming the vast majority of Americans are simply ignoring the Masking regulations including businesses enforcing it. I don’t think that is the case but maybe one or two of our American friends can confirm.

Without trying to get political, I believe the differences between the citizens of the two countries are much greater than you think. Specifically with what they are being told by their leader, and the far right citizens appear to be a lot more far right... and there is a lot more of them .. so it adds to the spread. I never said nor implied that the "vast majority of Americans are simply ignoring the masking regulations" I have no way to quantify that however.. in certain areas of the country it's being ignored. I would add that those people who are refusing to wear masks, are also not social distancing and are probably not using hand sanitizer either.
 
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OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
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I'm presently in Seeleys Bay - local grocery store, drug store, gas bar, medical center, vet office all Require Masks and I've seen them ask people to leave ( gas bar) if they are not wearing one. They are not providing free masks. Everyone in this small community seems to have a mask readily available. There are no cases here and yet people seem to still be taking it serious. In the US it does not seem they do and my opinion is you only have to look at their leader.

60% of the people in the USA do the exact opposite of what their “leader” says regardless of whether what he says makes sense or not. We should leave the politics part out of the discussion.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Hawaii - April 17
New Jersey - April 8
Connecticut - April 20
Michigan - April 24
Illinois - May 1
Kentucky - May 11
Virginia - May 26
Delaware - MAy 1
Florida - Most Municipalities (including ORange County) early May
Idaho - starts July 4
Maine - April 30
Massachusetts - May 6
Maryland - April 15
Minnesota - June 1
Mississippi - May 12 (in outbreak counties)
Nebraska - a lot of county regulations on various dates
New Hampshire - May 22 (Nashua County)
New Mexico - May 16
Pennsylvania - July 1
Rhode Island - May 8
Texas - July 3
Washington - no date found

“It is recommended that wearing a face covering is not a substitute for social distancing and hand washing.”

My point is it is possible that people are using the face mask more as a crutch and as a result they are not doing the other recommended instructions, thus causing higher spread.

In Ontario, people have social distanced and probably been diligent with hand washing and the numbers have gone down. IF we institute face masks as mandatory, are we opening ourselves up to people ignoring the other two instructions?

We saw numerous protests in the United States. Everyone seemed to be wearing a mask. Loads of new cases reported. How effective are non-medical masks? They are effective provided they are used properly, sanitized regularly and we aren’t touching them, pulling them down to take an break form restricted breathing etc.

So if people start wearing masks, what are the unintended consequences that will undoubtably come with that?

Again... you keep posting what governments recommend... but they are not enforceable in a lot of places.. I'm not going to go through each one for you again.. but your inclusion of Florida is laughable. (On April 30, Gov. Ron DeSantis recommended, but didn't require, the use of face coverings for residents of the state.)

Look at it this way... if the speed limit on Ontario highways was increased to 110... but it was announced that there would be no police monitoring it, how fast do you think people would be driving?

Regarding the protests, have any of the new cases been directly attributed to them?
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
6,748
I figured you were there in April



How do you know that USA businesses are enforcing at the point of entry? Just because some governments require it doesn't make it a fact that it's happening



Again, not disputing that it's a requirement.. I'm disputing your comments that it means it's happening..



In some areas.. yes that's exactly what I am saying.. you would have to be very naïve to believe otherwise



Again.. not disputing that... the numbers have gone down considerably because of the measures taken by the Federal and Provincial governments and people for the most part following directions.. except for a nail salon in Kingston and a Farm in Essex county.



Except Costco..



Unscientific observation...



And one of the best ways to ensure social distancing was to make sure that non-essential businesses were closed to prevent the spread.



I would say no



This has happened a lot and there have been numerous news stories regarding this.



In certain areas... wouldn't surprise me



Without trying to get political, I believe the differences between the citizens of the two countries are much greater than you think. Specifically with what they are being told by their leader, and the far right citizens appear to be a lot more far right... and there is a lot more of them .. so it adds to the spread. I never said nor implied that the "vast majority of Americans are simply ignoring the masking regulations" I have no way to quantify that however.. in certain areas of the country it's being ignored. I would add that those people who are refusing to wear masks, are also not social distancing and are probably not using hand sanitizer either.

A lot of what both of us are saying is observation based. We can look at a handful of news media reports that clearly try to sensationalize events to sell their media. We’ve seen that here in Canada as well.

You are correct the “far right” int he USA is clearly more far right than Canada. That will have an effect in attitude 100%. We will see some other slight differences and that I agree.

All that said, it doesn’t account for the insane data differences between the two countries. I could understand if the per capita rates of infection differed by 20%. But we are talking about what? Maybe 50,000 cases per day compared to 250? Adjusted per capital, that’s 2000% more?

I find it very hard to believe these numbers are a result of what you are suggesting. Many States opened their non-essential businesses before Ontario. However, if we look at our normal shopping trends, in Ontario, the vast majority of stores we visit regularly remained open. In fact, there were a lot of people suggesting it was almost a joke how many types of stores remained open. People openly mocked the Province for this. How many discussions were had regarding places like the LCBO? Even I said, “Ok, so I can’t get a haircut, go to a restaurant. Got it.”

The average person shops primarily at all the stores that remained open. I feel I am an average MALE with respect to shopping tendencies. I hit places like Costco, the Grocery Store and Walmart regularly. I hit Hardware type stores now and then as well as Golf Town a few times per year. I may hit up a Dollarama if I need cheap stuff for the house or office. With the exception of GolfTown, all those places were open. I reduced the number of times I went to those stores but I still went and I know most people followed suit. I “assume” for the majority of Americans, this was a similar practise.

As you mentioned, the masking wasn’t in place for most States early on. Some in April but most more so in May. Regardless of that, Ontario has not had any masking, we kept a slew of major operators open as essential businesses and we managed to hold back the deluge of cases. That said, Ontario and Quebec were harder hit than the other Provinces so even though we did well, compared to other Provinces, we did poorly.

All this is to say, we managed to do VERY well without masks. The USA has done poorly with masks.

IS THERE A REASON WHY THE USA HAS DONE POORLY AND WHY?

This is a question no one seems to be able to answer. A lot of the reason why they cannot answer is because of the focus on political maneuvering which is unfortunate. For example, “stay home, unless you are protesting. Then it is ok.” There have been a lot of mixed messages.

The main point I’ve been trying to make the last couple weeks is there is loads of conflicting data. If you look ONLY at one aspect of the data, it can make sense. But, as I start throwing more data out there, it starts to conflict a lot. Why is that? IF people are wearing masks, why is this spreading? IS there a bunch of asymptomatic people now being tested? Are there more asymptomatic people out there than forecast? Does the virus spread easily but not cause symptoms to the degree it was forecast? Wearing a mask is a great way to reduce spread by means of it being a “cough catcher” but are there other ways a mask can help spread the Virus more easily? IF so, why or how?

It is relatively easy to look at a mask and suggests it HAS TO BE more effective than not wearing one. Yet, in the medical field, they suggest wearing one improperly or handling it improperly is worse than not wearing one in many cases because of the touch points and how your hands can spread bacteria way quicker and more effectively than your breath.

These are the questions we should be asking. We should demand more information than we are receiving. We should expect more from our media than fear mongering. We should expect more from our Government.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
6,748
Again... you keep posting what governments recommend... but they are not enforceable in a lot of places.. I'm not going to go through each one for you again.. but your inclusion of Florida is laughable. (On April 30, Gov. Ron DeSantis recommended, but didn't require, the use of face coverings for residents of the state.)

Look at it this way... if the speed limit on Ontario highways was increased to 110... but it was announced that there would be no police monitoring it, how fast do you think people would be driving?

Regarding the protests, have any of the new cases been directly attributed to them?

The speed limit where I live was increased to 110 (pilot project). I don’t notice a difference in speeds people travel. Most hang in at 110-120 which was around the same as before.

These are not recommendations. They are mandates. Again, they leave it to the stores to police. Maybe it isn’t the best way but at least they have a mandate which is more than Ontario.

Generally speaking, I doubt you can attribute positive tests to protest any more than you can going to a store. Until they have the app based systems that can track your presence better, it will till be somewhat difficult to pinpoint the exact location/date, you were infected.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
The speed limit where I live was increased to 110 (pilot project). I don’t notice a difference in speeds people travel. Most hang in at 110-120 which was around the same as before.

These are not recommendations. They are mandates. Again, they leave it to the stores to police. Maybe it isn’t the best way but at least they have a mandate which is more than Ontario.

Generally speaking, I doubt you can attribute positive tests to protest any more than you can going to a store. Until they have the app based systems that can track your presence better, it will till be somewhat difficult to pinpoint the exact location/date, you were infected.

Re speed limits: you missed the second part of the statement... did they also announce that police would no longer be conducting speed traps?

Re: mandate ... again I'm not going to go over state by state because you are just going to believe what you want.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Column: Why are so many people not wearing masks? Here's how they explain it

"
At lunchtime Tuesday on the sweet, little tree-lined main drag in downtown Glendora, people were out and about under pleasant pandemic skies, and most were not wearing masks.
I’d say it was one-third with, two-thirds without."

"In Los Angeles County, a recent inspection of about 2,000 newly reopened restaurants found that roughly half were out of compliance with safety rules, while in San Diego, a public health warning was issued because of crowds partying mask-free in the Gaslamp District."

"On Sunday, I took my dog for a walk at the Eagle Rock Recreation Center and saw 10 sweaty bodies banging into one another on the basketball court while another several hung out waiting to get into the game, and not one mask."

But.. YAY CALIFORNIA! Great job with that mandate!
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,547
6,748
Column: Why are so many people not wearing masks? Here's how they explain it

"
At lunchtime Tuesday on the sweet, little tree-lined main drag in downtown Glendora, people were out and about under pleasant pandemic skies, and most were not wearing masks.
I’d say it was one-third with, two-thirds without."

"In Los Angeles County, a recent inspection of about 2,000 newly reopened restaurants found that roughly half were out of compliance with safety rules, while in San Diego, a public health warning was issued because of crowds partying mask-free in the Gaslamp District."

"On Sunday, I took my dog for a walk at the Eagle Rock Recreation Center and saw 10 sweaty bodies banging into one another on the basketball court while another several hung out waiting to get into the game, and not one mask."

But.. YAY CALIFORNIA! Great job with that mandate!

So you criticize me for citing personal observations and then you post other peoples personal observations and use that to suggest few people in California are following the guidelines? California does not require a mask to be worn outside. They don’t require it while exercising; although, you do need to distance which clearly was not the case in that observation.

Also, the restaurants not in compliance could mean a lot of things. Obviously customers cannot wear a mask while eating and drinking. Therefore, there must be some other form of regulation not adhered to. I am on a facebook Hospitality Group Forum where there is a lot of confusion about what is and is not allowed. Discussions on how to comply under certain scenario’s. The restaurants are struggling keeping things within the very strict Provincial Guidelines. I don’t know what the guidelines are for California Restaurants so I cannot pass judgement but the Ontario restaurants are struggling based on all the conversations I’ve been party to. It is no surprise California restaurants would also be struggling. Keep in mind, the regulations required for restaurants are a massive overreach compared to Retail. It is actually pretty unfair to be honest.

Still, none of the examples you have provided address retail businesses which comprise the vast majority of the Essential Services that have not shut down at all. You could very well be correct that the majority of people and businesses are simply ignoring the mandates. However, you don’t know you are correct. You are just assuming people aren’t following the rules when they go in a place of business. Meanwhile, generally speaking, there are no rules for Ontario yet our numbers aren’t spiking either. We aren’t talking about Phase II businesses that don’t get anywhere near the same foot traffic as many of the essential businesses. We are talking about the hundreds of people per hour going in and out of these high volume Essential Stores.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
So you criticize me for citing personal observations and then you post other peoples personal observations and use that to suggest few people in California are following the guidelines? California does not require a mask to be worn outside. They don’t require it while exercising; although, you do need to distance which clearly was not the case in that observation.

Also, the restaurants not in compliance could mean a lot of things. Obviously customers cannot wear a mask while eating and drinking. Therefore, there must be some other form of regulation not adhered to. I am on a facebook Hospitality Group Forum where there is a lot of confusion about what is and is not allowed. Discussions on how to comply under certain scenario’s. The restaurants are struggling keeping things within the very strict Provincial Guidelines. I don’t know what the guidelines are for California Restaurants so I cannot pass judgement but the Ontario restaurants are struggling based on all the conversations I’ve been party to. It is no surprise California restaurants would also be struggling. Keep in mind, the regulations required for restaurants are a massive overreach compared to Retail. It is actually pretty unfair to be honest.

Still, none of the examples you have provided address retail businesses which comprise the vast majority of the Essential Services that have not shut down at all. You could very well be correct that the majority of people and businesses are simply ignoring the mandates. However, you don’t know you are correct. You are just assuming people aren’t following the rules when they go in a place of business. Meanwhile, generally speaking, there are no rules for Ontario yet our numbers aren’t spiking either. We aren’t talking about Phase II businesses that don’t get anywhere near the same foot traffic as many of the essential businesses. We are talking about the hundreds of people per hour going in and out of these high volume Essential Stores.
Why is there a US backlash to masks?
 
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