Next Season (COVID-19 Discussion Thread as it relates to the OHL) [Part 3]

[mianjo]

COVID-19 in Canada: Alberta launches pilot program to reduce quarantine requirement for travellers while Ontario ponders similar test

Ontario Premier Doug Ford responded to Alberta piloting a new program to reduce the quarantine requirement for travellers returning to the province by adding a voluntary testing option upon arrival.

Ford said he’s keeping a “sharp eye” on what happens with the program, adding that he would be “open” to implementing something similar in Ontario, depending on Alberta’s results.

“Toronto is much different than Calgary,” the premier said. “It doesn’t get the volume, number one, but [also] doesn’t get the diversification around the world.”

Ford added that he believes travellers should be tested “as soon as they get off that plane.”

They are suppose to be tested before they get on the plane.

 

[section15]

The fact that we have to explain this this far into the pandemic is scary

Embarassly scary and maybe very telling.....

 

[section15]

So who is protecting me when I am at the gym and you don't have to wear a mask to workout only when you're walking the floor?

Better question.... if your asking this why would you go there in the first place ?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Better question.... if your asking this why would you go there in the first place ?

Because I have a membership at a great price and instead of paying for something and not using it. I prefer to get something out of my investment. Capiche???

 

[Otto]

Coronavirus: Ontario hospitals, long-term care homes have little room for 2nd wave surge, inquiry hears

 

[Bear in the Woods]

Because I have a membership at a great price and instead of paying for something and not using it. I prefer to get something out of my investment. Capiche???

I have a membership to a place that I have later found out might kill me and others.........but I'd hate to lose a few bucks.

 

[Bear in the Woods]

1

 

[OMG67]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm on the side of "do what got you healthy in the first place." That was masks when suggested/requested, keeping your distance, washing your hands, and listening to actual medical advice. If others want to listen to randoms on social media or YouTube who swear docs are lying, then so be it. We just have zero room to complain when restrictions tighten.

Not all Doctors agree. Not all Scientists agree. Not all Immunologists agree. Not all Infectious disease experts agree.

In fact, the tide is turning with respect to lockdowns more specifically. More and more Scientifically proven reports and papers are being published to CONFIRM more deaths have resulted (or will result int he near future) because of lockdowns Thant he number of deaths prevented.

Great Barrington Declaration Great Barrington Declaration and Petition

As we continue to analyze more data, more prominent Doctors and Scientists are changing direction. I think more people should be less dismissive regarding identifying these Prominent people as “Social Media Hacks.”

When looking at what matters most (Hospitalizations, ICU, Death), the Pandemic is over. We are now in a Casedemic. We are testing through the roof and are experiencing cases. If we stopped testing, opened everything up and went about our daily lives while putting in proper measures for the vulnerable, life would go on back to normal.

 

[OMG67]

If they roll out with these masks, physical contact shouldn't be an issue.

And here lies the problem.

MEDICALLY GRADED MASKS work to a degree.

Face coverings do not. Face coverings reduce the distance required to under 3 feet from 6 feet.

I’ve been saying this since day ONE. The face mask mandate gives a false sense of security. You still need to maintain the 6 feet distance UNLESS you are wearing a medical grade Facemask.

The purpose of the Facemask is to add an additional layer of protection. IT DOES NOT REPLACE THE DISTANCING!

Because the overwhelming majority of people do not adhere to this and it is not possible to outfit the entire population with medical grade facemasks that are worn for a maximum of 2 hours and then discarded, facemasks are not very relevant.

 

[Otto]

Great Barrington Declaration Great Barrington Declaration and Petition

Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including 'Dr Johnny Bananas'

But I am sure Dr. Johnny Fartpants is very reputable.

 

[OMG67]

Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including 'Dr Johnny Bananas'

But I am sure Dr. Johnny Fartpants is very reputable.

Individual academics from the universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Sussex and York were among experts from around the world who signed the declaration

From your reference....

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I have a membership to a place that I have later found out might kill me and others.........but I'd hate to lose a few bucks.

I imagine there must have been a large outbreak of covid cases then if you decided not to go.

 

[Otto]

Individual academics from the universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Sussex and York were among experts from around the world who signed the declaration

From your reference....

Sky News discovered 18 self-declared homeopaths in the list of expert names and more than 100 therapists whose expertise included massage, hypnotherapy and Mongolian khoomii singing.

Also from my reference... kinda calls the whole thing into question.

However, many scientists have already criticised the letter’s conclusions.

 

[HockeyPops]

Fauci Attacks Herd Immunity Declaration Embraced By White House As ‘Total Nonsense’

• The so-called “Great Barrington Declaration” embraced by the White House argues that authorities should allow Covid-19 to spread uncontrollably through young healthy people while protecting the vulnerable.
• Allegedly, this would allow a population to reach “herd immunity” without the need for a vaccine, which would ultimately protect the vulnerable.
• Fauci said that anybody with experience in epidemiology and infectious diseases would know how risky such a strategy would be, ultimately leading to more hospitalizations and deaths.
• He rubbished the “nonsense” idea that the vulnerable could be kept safe — “history has shown that that’s not the case.”

 

[OMG67]

Mark my words. The way this Pandemic has been handled and continues to be handled will go down as THE BIGGEST Medical mismanagement we will have ever experienced. The economic fallout will be felt for at least a decade. If it continues to be managed in this manner through the he winter, it will be felt for a generation.

 

[Otto]

Scientists Slam The Great Barrington Declaration

And on Wednesday, a group of 80 researchers called the idea “a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence” in a letter published in the Lancet, a high-profile medical journal.

But somehow the three for and 80 against shows that "the tide is turning"

Look, I'm not advocating for complete lockdowns in this country, how things are going now seems to be OK for the moment, with the exception of the extra measures taken in London this week, I think those were unnecessary. But there are some areas of the world where it's necessary.

Look at how Taiwan handled this

Taiwan led the world in closing down for Covid-19, now it wants to do the same with opening back up - CNN

 

[Otto]

Mark my words. The way this Pandemic has been handled and continues to be handled will go down as THE BIGGEST Medical mismanagement we will have ever experienced. The economic fallout will be felt for at least a decade. If it continues to be managed in this manner through the he winter, it will be felt for a generation.

The lack of support from some of the general public plays a huge role in this. Taiwan handled this perfectly... better than any other country in the world. But they had buy in from their citizens.

 

[OMG67]

Fauci Attacks Herd Immunity Declaration Embraced By White House As ‘Total Nonsense’

AGAIN. Scientists and Experts do not all agree. You can trot out scientists that will say one thing and I can trot out scientists that say another thing.

The point I am making is we need to, as a society, listen to both sides. The more “my side” tries to impart relatable information, the more “your side” continues to reference only scientists that encourage restrictions at all costs.

There are many “experts” that are experts in their one area of “expertise.” Unfortunately, this Pandemic involves many areas of our daily lives and requires dozens of individual experts interpretations and forecasts that deal with everything from Infectious disease to Immunology, Mental Health, Hospital Operations, Long Term Care, Economists, and Social Scientists.

Unfortunately, the ones that deal directly with Covid deaths get all the press. Why is that? Is it because deaths sell news, maybe?

 

[Otto]

AGAIN. Scientists and Experts do not all agree. You can trot out scientists that will say one thing and I can trot out scientists that say another thing.

The point I am making is we need to, as a society, listen to both sides. The more “my side” tries to impart relatable information, the more “your side” continues to reference only scientists that encourage restrictions at all costs.

There are many “experts” that are experts in their one area of “expertise.” Unfortunately, this Pandemic involves many areas of our daily lives and requires dozens of individual experts interpretations and forecasts that deal with everything from Infectious disease to Immunology, Mental Health, Hospital Operations, Long Term Care, Economists, and Social Scientists.

Unfortunately, the ones that deal directly with Covid deaths get all the press. Why is that? Is it because deaths sell news, maybe?

And how has "listening to both sides" actually helped? Answer: it hasn't.. which is why the vast majority of the world is in this mess.

Again.. Taiwan.... a far better example than Sweden.

 

[dmead]

Speaks to the society. Asian countries populations are far more compliant than Western countries. We are a ME, ME, ME society. As such, measures to mitigate the spread of a disease only works for so long until the selfishness kicks in. The fixation on a vaccine and getting back to normal is just the veneer over the "I want" attitude of most people in Western countries.

Now that's not to say we don't need to open up business, our society is based on a strong , thriving economy and right now the foundation is crumbling. Just don't need parties, raves at bars or going to a gym when they are a known spreading engine. But still the self wants what it wants.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Mark my words. The way this Pandemic has been handled and continues to be handled will go down as THE BIGGEST Medical mismanagement we will have ever experienced. The economic fallout will be felt for at least a decade. If it continues to be managed in this manner through the he winter, it will be felt for a generation.

Agreed. Who would have thought providing an incentive for individuals not to work would create an economic fallout... I have 2 friends that both run small restaurants and they both said they will lose between 50-60k this year and that is even with a patio they have run for the past few months. Bank of Canada buying back 168 billion of bonds, picking up of government debt. I can't see this ending well in the least.

 

[OMG67]

The lack of support from some of the general public plays a huge role in this. Taiwan handled this perfectly... better than any other country in the world. But they had buy in from their citizens.

Canada is currently experiencing 1 death per million per day. Keep in mind, this is based on Covid as part of their diagnosis. It does not mean they were healthy people prior to Covid.

Many deaths are a result of Covid being the straw that broke the camels back. Many would have died from the Flu had they caught it or any other significant illness.

I agree we need to maintain a reasonable level of Hospital Care space for non-Covid patients. There are loads of hospital beds available but not necessarily ICU. We’ve had 6 months to construct temporary ICU space. Or rather, expand our existing ICU space and construct what could be considered field hospitals to replace beds taken over by ICU.

I know for a fact this is happening right now. The cost to do so is far less than the hit to the economy. The challenge is getting the required equipment on relative short notice.

I understand there needs to be a balance. However, at the same time, we cannot and should not continue to go overboard with our restrictions and lockdowns. Locking down any business does not make any sense.

Target your vulnerable. IF Granny lives at home, don’t go to places like restaurants or gyms. Don’t prohibit everyone from going to restaurants or gyms. IF people cannot or will not put restrictions on themselves to protect the ones they live with that fall under a vulnerable sector, then restrictions in general won’t work for those people no matter what you do. If, for some reason, you have to participate in the more risky areas, find an alternate place to put Granny for the time being.

Dont’ go visit Granny at the LTC facility if your job or activities put you at risk.

If Granny lives alone, societies services should prioritize delivering her essential goods before delivering to the millennial that would rather play video games than go t the store themselves.

There are ways around this that are a lot more elegant than what we’ve been doing.

 

[Otto]

Agreed. Who would have thought providing an incentive for individuals not to work would create an economic fallout... I have 2 friends that both run small restaurants and they both said they will lose between 50-60k this year and that is even with a patio they have run for the past few months. Bank of Canada buying back 168 billion of bonds, picking up of government debt. I can't see this ending well in the least.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-1.5764790

 

[Otto]

Canada is currently experiencing 1 death per million per day. Keep in mind, this is based on Covid as part of their diagnosis. It does not mean they were healthy people prior to Covid.

Many deaths are a result of Covid being the straw that broke the camels back. Many would have died from the Flu had they caught it or any other significant illness.

I agree we need to maintain a reasonable level of Hospital Care space for non-Covid patients. There are loads of hospital beds available but not necessarily ICU. We’ve had 6 months to construct temporary ICU space. Or rather, expand our existing ICU space and construct what could be considered field hospitals to replace beds taken over by ICU.

I know for a fact this is happening right now. The cost to do so is far less than the hit to the economy. The challenge is getting the required equipment on relative short notice.

I understand there needs to be a balance. However, at the same time, we cannot and should not continue to go overboard with our restrictions and lockdowns. Locking down any business does not make any sense.

Target your vulnerable. IF Granny lives at home, don’t go to places like restaurants or gyms. Don’t prohibit everyone from going to restaurants or gyms. IF people cannot or will not put restrictions on themselves to protect the ones they live with that fall under a vulnerable sector, then restrictions in general won’t work for those people no matter what you do. If, for some reason, you have to participate in the more risky areas, find an alternate place to put Granny for the time being.

Dont’ go visit Granny at the LTC facility if your job or activities put you at risk.

If Granny lives alone, societies services should prioritize delivering her essential goods before delivering to the millennial that would rather play video games than go t the store themselves.

There are ways around this that are a lot more elegant than what we’ve been doing.

Ya.. really doesn't cover anything in the post you quoted.

Taiwan had buy in from it's citizens, and handled the pandemic very very well. Canada didn't... and still doesn't... and it as not been good. Other areas of the world are a disaster... and they have all handled it poorly.

Your talk about the hospitals is interesting, I'm guessing you didn't read the article I posted earlier about most of the hospitals already at capacity and the bigger issue is a lack of staff to cover the LTC and field hospitals that could be utilized during the winter.

 

[HockeyPops]

The whole premise of the Great Barrington Declaration is willfully gaining herd immunity for the less vulnerable while implementing stronger protections for the vulnerable. It sounds reasonable until you start to break it down:
- nobody knows if immunity will last, and thus whether herd immunity is even achievable
- protecting long term care homes might be possible (although at what cost to the mental health of those involved?). But according to the CDC, the vulnerable includes 60% of the U.S. Adult population. How do you protect the vulnerable?
- the effects of "long covid" are still unknown, even in the non vulnerable population
- we are doing a much better job at protecting long term care homes now than we were at the beginning, so most cases now are in the younger, healthier population. But health care resources are getting strained again even now with the relatively low case counts that comes with the current restrictions. Opening up fully, unmasking, and going back to normal is going to quickly overwhelm the health care system.

Even though we are gaining better understanding of the virus, there is still so much we don't know. Until we know the answers to the above questions, such a strategy would be far too risky, resulting in higher hospitalizations and deaths, and is thus total nonsense as Fauci says