Proposal: New York Rangers Management

[Blueblood9]

Yandle trade was ok, he was much better than Shattenkirk.

The Staal rental and the MSL were terrible. Clowe was a joke.

So you didnt like the trip to the SCF in 14? MSL was a major driving factor in that run. I get it we gave up a ton of assets to try to get over the hump but thats what contenders do. Just look at winnepeg, vegas etc

 

[patnyrnyg]

It can change, but right now if we pick 10th-14th overall in 2019 it will hurt the rebuild unless we win in the lottery with less chances compare to the teams below us on the table. So key pieces should be moved earlier and that was the last summer window before the season started. We had too many key pieces like Hayes - so Lias struggled to get on the team who are suppose to be part of the future core after the 2017 draft year. Maybe it`s part of the culture thing or a winning culture whatever that means in pro. sport and NHL since it don`t involve a stanley cup or a player/team trophy. But either you tank for 1st overall or you field a stronger competitive team, and I always felt Jeff Gorton mentioned something in between in an interview before the season started.

Because if we don`t win the lottery - then draft picks start to get complicated; you need to be lucky to hit with a 2nd rounder or a 4th rounder for instant to get an elite talented forward which is almost a requirement to be successful in modern NHL in the last years.

Not as easy to tank for the 1st overall pick as it sounds. Unless, they are going to make it obvious and a team on the ice that would struggle to compete in the AHL, let alone the NHL. The problem with that is you still then need to re-build around that superstar you draft. If in fact, when you get the 1st overall, the player is the elite talent (Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Kane) and not simply the best of a class without the super-elite talent. (Ekblad, Yakupov, Erik Johnson)

 

[Machinehead]

We actually got pretty good value on the Eric Staal trade, it just never should have happened.

We also should have sold Yandle that deadline.

That team was going less than nowhere in the playoffs.

 

[Ghost of jas]

We actually got pretty good value on the Eric Staal trade, it just never should have happened.

We also should have sold Yandle that deadline.

That team was going less than nowhere in the playoffs.

I blame Gorton for not realizing at that point his head coach was a dumbass.

 

[Ori]

Moving Hayes & Zucc are obvious tank moves and build for the future to create spots in the lineup for newly drafted players @patnyrnyg . Dan Rosen mentioned it too with his concern after TDL who to replace them? It might be too early for our 2017-18 prospects to replace those two players in the 2019-20 season next training camp, but I don`t see it as a concern to bottom out while rebuilding and have the best chance possible for the 1st overall in 2020. And perhaps Jim Nill going to try to resign Zucc unless they change Franchise direction which seems unlikely over the summer.

 

[Ori]

Ottawa doing exactly this in this TDL while moving Duchene, Dzingel and Stone, they ended up with Erik K. many years ago.

 

[Edge]

I always felt the turning point was 2016.

The window was obviously closed and the team was desperate to try to hang on to something when the moment had passed.

Was not a huge fan of the Staal trade and I thought Yandle should've been shipped for assets.

To me, that was the kind of difficult decision you make when you are being completely honest about the state of your team. It wouldn't have met with universal approval or understanding, but it would've been the right choice.

So for me, I feel like we started the process a year, maybe almost two years too late. Not that that the early stages would've been as dramatic, but I would've started steering us in that general direction sooner.

 

[Off Sides]

I guess I think there was a transition period from Sather to Gorton, and it overlapped some. I'm thinking that overlap stopped when they had the press conference about the letter and Sather said something to the effect of, Gorton has a lot of work to do.

I know that comes off sounding like I am absolving Gorton of blame for some stuff, while putting that blame on Sather, which partially I am, yet it's more that I think there was probably some compromises which had to go on so one side or the other did not end up peeved. They both kind of had to find their footing, Gorton as GM, Sather as President without the GM hat.

 

[Machinehead]

I blame Gorton for not realizing at that point his head coach was a dumbass.

That too.

 

[True Blue]

The rebuild should have started earlier. The latest being after they got their doors blown out by the 'Pens in the playoffs. Maybe it should have started earlier as it was obvious to all that Henke was covering up for so many mistakes, he was carrying the team on his back. There were bad trades. Sather bidding against himself for MSL was poor. Staal, Yandle....all were plundering of assets. Heck, one can debate the Nash trade as well.

I think that they are on the right course now and are building and creating building blocks. It also appears to me that they have the right coach for the job. He is growing, and will have a growing team around him.

Gorton seems to have identified who he wants here to emerge as leaders on the other side (ZBad, Kreider) and what kind of identity he wants this team to play with. He seems to have found something that he likes on other teams and has made moves for them (ADA, Lemieux). He seems to have found projects that he feels he can take on (Strome), when some of his other projects fail (Spooner). And he seems to not panic and more content to stay the course.

 

[True Blue]

I blame Gorton for not realizing at that point his head coach was a dumbass.

Yeah, giving AV the extension was silly and then firing him shorlty thereafter was not a bright spot for him.

 

[Edge]

The key is sticking with a direction, you can't go rush things or try to force short cuts.

That's my fear with diving back into free agency at this point, it feels forced.

And when I hear the reasons why, it feels even more forced.

It feels more like doing mental ************ rather than just putting in the time to build something that can last.

 

[eco's bones]

I always felt the turning point was 2016.

The window was obviously closed and the team was desperate to try to hang on to something when the moment had passed.

Was not a huge fan of the Staal trade and I thought Yandle should've been shipped for assets.

To me, that was the kind of difficult decision you make when you are being completely honest about the state of your team. It wouldn't have met with universal approval or understanding, but it would've been the right choice.

So for me, I feel like we started the process a year, maybe almost two years too late. Not that that the early stages would've been as dramatic, but I would've started steering us in that general direction sooner.

All that said I think there are quite a lot of GM's who had they been in Gorton's place last year would not have gone in the direction he did--would instead had tried to 'fix things' and might still be at it today unless their owner's had fired them. I think Gorton would have been better off starting a year or even two earlier but that's all hindsight. Up until January of last year the Rangers still looked playoff bound if you looked at the standings. That 5 year period of no first rounders when it finally caught up with us came on really fast.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The key is sticking with a direction, you can't go rush things or try to force short cuts.

That's my fear with diving back into free agency at this point, it feels forced.

And when I hear the reasons why, it feels even more forced.

It feels more like doing mental ************ rather than just putting in the time to build something that can last.

It seems to be more the media and some of the fanbase. I don’t sense Gorton going big game hunting. I do think if the right trade scenario presents itself, he could move assets if the player he targets fits in with what the Rangers are building.

 

[McRanger]

I always felt the turning point was 2016.

The window was obviously closed and the team was desperate to try to hang on to something when the moment had passed.

Was not a huge fan of the Staal trade and I thought Yandle should've been shipped for assets.

To me, that was the kind of difficult decision you make when you are being completely honest about the state of your team. It wouldn't have met with universal approval or understanding, but it would've been the right choice.

So for me, I feel like we started the process a year, maybe almost two years too late. Not that that the early stages would've been as dramatic, but I would've started steering us in that general direction sooner.

Not trading for Staal is one thing, but trading Yandle is something very different; at the time of the 2016 deadline the Rangers were in 2nd in the Metro and tied for 2nd in the conference. Saying that it "wouldn't have met with universal approval" is understating it a bit, it might have cost Gorton his job.

Most of us knew the window was closing soon. Some were vocal we should tear the team down early, many of who were probably the same fans who wanted us to tear everything after a bad October in 13-14. Personally I think Gorton started the rebuild right when he should have, after 2016 when he traded Brassard for Zibanejad and tried to trade Stepan for a pick to get Keller. Everything that proceeded after might have been a little too measured or methodical for some, but as long as it is actually progressing I can't complain.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

I think trading Lee Stempniak for no reason before the 2015 playoffs was one of the biggest mistakes this front office made. He was a playoff beast that year and we needed someone to replace Zuccarello after captain McDumby hit him in the head with a slapshot.

 

[Blueblood9]

You can blame Gorton all you want but the owner has a say on when to rebuild and no owner is gonna jump start a rebuild on the back of 101 points and a playoff appearence in 16 and 102 points and a playoff appearence in 17.

 

[Charlie Conway]

This offseason with FA and the draft will be the tell.

I want guys who have had success and/or a real drive to compete to be signed on one-year, maybe two-year deals to push our young players towards becoming consummate pros. Avoid the EDM type of situation at all costs. We need those glue guys--the ones that keep a lineup together when things get shaky and can step up. Need to establish that drive and camraderies (that we had in the 11-12 team or so) and the killer instinct (that we often lacked).

Justin Williams (mentioned above) is a good example.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

So you didnt like the trip to the SCF in 14? MSL was a major driving factor in that run. I get it we gave up a ton of assets to try to get over the hump but thats what contenders do. Just look at winnepeg, vegas etc

I think we would have been fine without him and since we did not win the Cup it did not really matter too much.

 

[JHS]

There was absolutely no problem with buying when they did. That roster was in its prime age to compete and they played their hand. And they came pretty damn close.

I simply can't fathom how anybody can look back on 2014 and 2015 and wanna give that back. The whole ****ing point of rebuilding is to do that. If you would give up your success to rebuild, then you don't understand rebuilding. You give up mediocrity to rebuild, not success.

What they're doing now has to happen. You can dissect it move by move, and fear for the execution of it, but it's absolutely the right idea.

The only big overarching mistake this team made (beyond individual moves, I'm talking philosophy) was not going into a full tear down after 2015-16 and wasting the 2016-17 calendar year playing and building with a competitive mindset.

Unpopular opinion, but I will go to my grave saying the 2015-16 team was worse than this one is. Maybe not on paper, but they ****ing played like it. This year, I wouldn't say I get up saying "boy howdy I can't wait to watch the Rangers tonight" but I do it and I don't feel like I'm forcing myself. I want to do it. That 2015-16 team made me wanna gouge my ****ing eyes out. I forced myself just short of gunpoint to watch that team. A two-month stretch of Hank being the best player on the planet (and a subsequent 69-1-2 start, or whatever the **** it was) is the only thing that put that trash team in the playoffs.

That should have been it and management should have seen it. They didn't. But at the same time, as @ZuccsFluffierFluffer pointed out, huge kudos to management for not falling for the fluke 16-17 run and extending this garbage another year.

Yes, they signed Shattenkirk but that was an offer no other team in the NHL was getting and it basically amounted to "why not?" When you trade Derek Stepan, you're starting a rebuild.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. The team needs to rebuild but my concern is the management is not really the group I want. I have no faith in them at all. This is the same management that’s been around for years. They built a great cup contender but I think the skill set required to build a roster from nothing requires a whole different way of looking at things.

I loved the 2014-2015 season and a lot of those guys were brought up through the system. My hope is many years from now the Rangers will be in that same spot. It’s just not a certainty like a lot think

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

If the team goes up for sale, maybe we can start a GoFundMe page to buy the team from HF Boards sponsors. Our collective brains should be able to deliver a cup.

 

[Good Intentions]

I hated the MSL trade. That, and letting Stralman (instead of Girardi or Staal -- whoever was up for renewal) walk, most irked me.

I loved the St Louis deal with a passion. Was elated to cut ties with Callahan.

The Girardi buyout proved to be unwise.

 

[Crease]

I think we would have been fine without him and since we did not win the Cup it did not really matter too much.

This may be insensitive but I don't think the Rangers get out of the second round without the MSL family tragedy.

And though they didn't win the Cup, that Spring was easily the most fun I've had as a fan and would make that trade 10/10 in retrospect.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This may be insensitive but I don't think the Rangers get out of the second round without the MSL family tragedy.

And though they didn't win the Cup, that was easily the most fun I've had as a fan in my lifetime and wouldn't trade it for anything.

Maybe, but I think Kreider returning had more to do with their come back in that series than anything.

 

[bernmeister]

Well the Structure, Franchise culture and about Glen Sather as president - and how to do things in New York with Jeff Gorton. I felt @Chimp talked a lot about it in a wrong topic earlier so it`s a proposal to talk about New York Rangers Management as whole - what is the plan now?

Did the rebuild started too early while moving Ryan Mc. to Tampa last year with our captain?
Did Glen Sather used too much of our future for their cup run back in 2014 and his era as GM? And should we have a different president in New York? I`m not asking for Glen retirement, but all those questions should be mentioned under the New York Rangers Management. (NYRM)

will detail plan for now later, but basically
do bern creative moves to make a dif;
shed most excess vets to get down to a streamline core, to which we can add new, cheaper talent which will = more cap room = mo roster flexibility;
don't be afraid to trade assets we like for strategic upgrades, i.e., repurposing value, as long as we are getting enough or = enuf profit in return;
while not being slavish to the Chicago Black Hawks approach in recent years, a general guideline of build via draft, with strategic reaches to add for a cup run that does not empty the cupboard, some variant of that which fits NYR should be considered until a better idea emerges

also, great OP

I was dubious about, if not down on, the MSL trade. Never liked the Yandle trade.

They did not start the rebuild too early. In hindsight they shouldn’t have signed Shattenkirk after they made the Stepan trade.

Shatty was not the prob since he took less esp term to come; without THAT, we would be effed.
He is finally recovering from injury and relapse aside will be part of solution not prob going forward.
If a catastrophic issue, we can hope he will do us solid and retire with a kick upstairs, but expect him to be productive finishing his term at this point. Not 6+m worth, but still productive.

Also, as is clearly documented, we should have done what I said, once we saw Stepan would plateau and stay where he was production wise- the max value scenario would be to trade while same production but costing less.
We got LUCKY to get what we did b'v 'yotes bailed us out.

Also, before that, we should not have renewed Dan the Warrior Girardi, who I dain, not disdain, for his service here until he fell apart at the end including thanks to Torts. We had a chance to get Sens 11OAish from Ducks to deal him before that extend.

Too much win now, too much we hold on to our faves.
bernmeister is not always wrong, as some suggest, but the record proves otherwise.

I hated the MSL trade. That, and letting Stralman (instead of Girardi or Staal -- whoever was up for renewal) walk, most irked me.

I liked MSL but not as a trade. 1:1 ish would have been okay, but giving up a high pick, again, too much effin win now.
Eat my dust, win now crowd, that had constant derision to my balanced approach.

The Ryan Clowe and Brendan Smith trades were bad too. Overall in like a 5 year period, we traded a ton of picks in at the deadline, without anything to show for it in terms of long term assets.

This^ to a large extent

So you didnt like the trip to the SCF in 14? MSL was a major driving factor in that run. I get it we gave up a ton of assets to try to get over the hump but thats what contenders do. Just look at winnepeg, vegas
etc

No I did not like 1 and only 1 single SCF trip.
We had better options for less instant gratification but healthier long run.
Let them eat cake, Marie

I blame Gorton for not realizing at that point his head coach was a dumbass.

I don't blame Gorton, who until recently had to deal with Slats.
Slats I wanna like, and there is a pro and con to his overall record.
However, at the end, he waited to give both Torts first and then AV enough rope with which to hang themselves, instead of challenging then dumping them,
While that helped keep him and preserve continuity vs upheaval, going too heavy on vets was a mistake, and coaches that excessively go there are not doing us favors.
Skapski was never gonna replace Hank, and shouldn't.
But despite playing well, we left him twisting in the A, then he got dispirited, and finally further injured.
I liked Skapski but I wanted him dealt for something of value -- not great value, not a swindle, but I didn't want to lose him for nothing.

Nieves has also been mishandled up until now. We have a 2nd invested in him. Until Kravtsov ges here, put him at pivot and now we are keeping Zib until draft [dealing to get beyond NMC] or beyond; put Zib a righty shot at 1RW.

-----
NO MORE NMCs.
no exceptions
generous ntcs as warranted.
Learn from Shatty deal

dat's it 4 now