Proposal: New York Rangers Management

[Ori]

Well the Structure, Franchise culture and about Glen Sather as president - and how to do things in New York with Jeff Gorton. I felt @Chimp talked a lot about it in a wrong topic earlier so it`s a proposal to talk about New York Rangers Management as whole - what is the plan now?

Did the rebuild started too early while moving Ryan Mc. to Tampa last year with our captain?
Did Glen Sather used too much of our future for their cup run back in 2014 and his era as GM? And should we have a different president in New York? I`m not asking for Glen retirement, but all those questions should be mentioned under the New York Rangers Management. (NYRM)

Click to read more...

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I was dubious about, if not down on, the MSL trade. Never liked the Yandle trade.

They did not start the rebuild too early. In hindsight they shouldn’t have signed Shattenkirk after they made the Stepan trade.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

They don't make the finals with out the MSL trade in 2014. I'd rather have a shot at the cup than what would have amounted to Nikita Scherbak (the Rangers loved him), Who ever they'd end up drafting the next year and whatever they got for Callahan.

Yandle was horribly misused, but that lies more with the idiot we had as a coach at the time. Still that team was a legitimate contender, it'd be silly not to push your chips into the middle when you have a shot at winning it all.

The plan didn't start too early, if anything it started a bit too late. This should have been their course of action after the completion of the 2015-16 season. We'd be much further along had they decided to start stripping it down at that time. I think the plan up to this point has been pretty clear but they're running out of assets to move. Perhaps this was the plan - to slowly start stripping it away instead of just going all out and moving everything asap - If they don't do anything further this summer the team is going to be crazy horrible next year, which would bode well for their draft.

I can't see them willing to hang around the bottom for any longer than that though and if they did their jobs correctly, they shouldn't have to. If this is year 1 of the rebuild, we should be headed on an upward trajectory by year 3.

 

[CasusBelli]

I was dubious about, if not down on, the MSL trade. Never liked the Yandle trade.

They did not start the rebuild too early. In hindsight they shouldn’t have signed Shattenkirk after they made the Stepan trade.

I hated the MSL trade. That, and letting Stralman (instead of Girardi or Staal -- whoever was up for renewal) walk, most irked me.

 

[Matt4776]

They don't make the finals with out the MSL trade in 2014. I'd rather have a shot at the cup than what would have amounted to Nikita Scherbak (the Rangers loved him), Who ever they'd end up drafting the next year and whatever they got for Callahan.

Yandle was horribly misused, but that lies more with the idiot we had as a coach at the time. Still that team was a legitimate contender, it'd be silly not to push your chips into the middle when you have a shot at winning it all.

The plan didn't start too early, if anything it started a bit too late. This should have been their course of action after the completion of the 2015-16 season. We'd be much further along had they decided to start stripping it down at that time. I think the plan up to this point has been pretty clear but they're running out of assets to move. Perhaps this was the plan - to slowly start stripping it away instead of just going all out and moving everything asap - If they don't do anything further this summer the team is going to be crazy horrible next year, which would bode well for their draft.

I can't see them willing to hang around the bottom for any longer than that though and if they did their jobs correctly, they shouldn't have to. If this is year 1 of the rebuild, we should be headed on an upward trajectory by year 3.

I just really, really hope we have the patience to be bad next year. Gorton hasn't done anything to suggest anything to the contrary, but I'm still nervous.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I just really, really hope we have the patience to be bad next year. Gorton hasn't done anything to suggest anything to the contrary, but I'm still nervous.

Unless he starts wheeling and dealing, I don't see how he'll have a choice. The top UFA's have/will re-up with their current teams or won't be coming here. Panarin is a pipe dream, we're not giving him 11-12 mill a year. I don't see how they can pay for top tier UFAs until they get some of the S's off the books (Which will be easier to accomplish after next season anyway.)

Leadership laden stop gaps on 1 year deals (like a Justin Williams) should be their course of action in UFA.

 

[RangerBlues]

In Slats we trust.

 

[Matt4776]

Unless he starts wheeling and dealing, I don't see how he'll have a choice. The top UFA's have/will re-up with their current teams or won't be coming here. Panarin is a pipe dream, we're not giving him 11-12 mill a year. I don't see how they can pay for top tier UFAs until they get some of the S's off the books (Which will be easier to accomplish after next season anyway.)

Leadership laden stop gaps on 1 year deals (like a Justin Williams) should be their course of action in UFA.

Anything on a 1 year deal is music to my ears. More assets next TDL.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I didnt mind the MSL trade. We were going for it, we had multiple players in their prime, INCLUDING Lundqvist. We were TWO games away from the championship. Not sure how you can look back on the MSL and say it was bad, we gave up a lot yes, but we were so close to another cup.

Yandle trade was dumb.

E Staal trade was the worst of them all.

 

[Hire Sather]

If they signed Stralman instead of Girardi you could argue they wouldn't have needed a rebuild.

Also, the Brass for Z trade was one that should've extended the window longer than it did.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they signed Stralman instead of Girardi you could argue they wouldn't have needed a rebuild.

The Brass for Z trade was one that should've extended the window longer than it did.

Yes they would have, but they may have also won in 2015 and literally no one would care right now.

The window shut after they lost game 7 of the ECF. I know they had a legitimate shot at getting back there 2 seasons later but that was a fools gold run if ever there was one and management saw it too.

Had they kept the band together they would probably be fighting for a playoff spot right now and would have probably made it in last year, despite that, they're closer to winning right now than they would have been if they went that route.

I think our little run of success from 2012-2015 should serve as a cautionary tale. Those teams were good, hell we even had a pretty decent farm at the end of the 2012 season which had already bore a ton of quality fruit for our big squad (which is why I laugh at those who want to crap all over this teams drafting, the foundation of those contending teams was built through the draft.) But no one who you would consider "elite" outside of our goalie and that one year from McDonagh that had yet to happen.

They had to cash in all of their chips in search of that guy - Nash, MSL, Yandle. It almost worked, but it didn't. Those guys were older and either eventually retired, left via UFA or declined and were eventually traded.

Had they drafted their "difference makers" they would have had many more kicks at the can. It's not that building the way that they did before can't work, it almost did - but you're working with much less margin for error, a shorter duration in which you can legitimately compete and you also have to draft a HoF goalie in the 7th round.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yes they would have, but they may have also won in 2015 and literally no one would care right now.

The window shut after they lost game 7 of the ECF. I know they had a legitimate shot at getting back there 2 seasons later but that was a fools gold run if ever there was one and management saw it too.

Had they kept the band together they would probably be fighting for a playoff spot right now and would have probably made it in last year, despite that, they're closer to winning right now than they would have been if they went that route.

I think our little run of success from 2012-2015 should serve as a cautionary tale. Those teams were good, hell we even had a pretty decent farm at the end of the 2012 season which had already bore a ton of quality fruit for our big squad (which is why I laugh at those who want to crap all over this teams drafting, the foundation of those contending teams was built through the draft.) But no one who you would consider "elite" outside of our goalie and that one year from McDonagh that had yet to happen.

They had to cash in all of their chips in search of that guy - Nash, MSL, Yandle. It almost worked, but it didn't. Those guys were older and either eventually retired, left via UFA or declined and were eventually traded.

Had they drafted their "difference makers" they would have had many more kicks at the can. It's not that building the way that they did before can't work, it almost did - but you're working with much less margin for error, a shorter duration in which you can legitimately compete and you also have to draft a HoF goalie in the 7th round.

Superb take.

And just to follow up on a point I made elsewhere, despite the moaning of Brooks, the tears of Henke, and the continued misinterpretation and impatience of the media in general, Gorton has remained steadfast to exactly what was laid out in the letter. Some fans can keep wishing for a quick end to this rebuild, but, it’s not happening. It’s going to happen on its own time and and own terms.

 

[Riche16]

Until Gorton signs or trades for anyone past Hank/and the S triplets no one should question where this is headed.

It’s head to a young team, with a ton of cap space.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Until Gorton signs or trades for anyone past Hank/and the S triplets no one should question where this is headed.

It’s head to a young team, with a ton of cap space.

We're going to need the cap space and prospects for when McDavid demands a trade out of Edmonton.

 

[Riche16]

Yes they would have, but they may have also won in 2015 and literally no one would care right now.

The window shut after they lost game 7 of the ECF. I know they had a legitimate shot at getting back there 2 seasons later but that was a fools gold run if ever there was one and management saw it too.

Had they kept the band together they would probably be fighting for a playoff spot right now and would have probably made it in last year, despite that, they're closer to winning right now than they would have been if they went that route.

I think our little run of success from 2012-2015 should serve as a cautionary tale. Those teams were good, hell we even had a pretty decent farm at the end of the 2012 season which had already bore a ton of quality fruit for our big squad (which is why I laugh at those who want to crap all over this teams drafting, the foundation of those contending teams was built through the draft.) But no one who you would consider "elite" outside of our goalie and that one year from McDonagh that had yet to happen.

They had to cash in all of their chips in search of that guy - Nash, MSL, Yandle. It almost worked, but it didn't. Those guys were older and either eventually retired, left via UFA or declined and were eventually traded.

Had they drafted their "difference makers" they would have had many more kicks at the can. It's not that building the way that they did before can't work, it almost did - but you're working with much less margin for error, a shorter duration in which you can legitimately compete and you also have to draft a HoF goalie in the 7th round.

And post of the decade.

Too bad the Oscars were last night

 

[LionsHeart]

I think the MSL trade at the time was worth it. They were going for it, and he was still a really good player. They didn't win the Cup, but a few shots off the post go the other way and we may be having a completely different conversation about that run.

I feel the same way about the Yandle trade. They still felt they were a viable contender and going for it.

I think if Management is guilty of anything it's maybe overestimating how good the team was a few years ago and not starting to rebuild sooner.

 

[Riche16]

I think the MSL trade at the time was worth it. They were going for it, and he was still a really good player. They didn't win the Cup, but a few shots off the post go the other way and we may be having a completely different conversation about that run.

I feel the same way about the Yandle trade. They still felt they were a viable contender and going for it.

I think if Management is guilty of anything it's maybe overestimating how good the team was a few years ago and not starting to rebuild sooner.

Piggy backing here but I think they knew and were trying to get that Cup crawling across the line. Hank was the guy they built around.

Wasn’t wrong. Turned out bad... but it was what it was.

Vegas and WPG today doing anything diff? No.

Going for it when the time is right.

Sometimes u still don’t win

 

[Calad]

Love the direction the team has been going in since Gorton took over. Seems to be one step ahead of the game and making a lot of smart moves, to me his vision with the rebuild is very clear and they are on exactly the path they need to be

 

[gump116]

I didnt mind the MSL trade. We were going for it, we had multiple players in their prime, INCLUDING Lundqvist. We were TWO games away from the championship. Not sure how you can look back on the MSL and say it was bad, we gave up a lot yes, but we were so close to another cup.

Yandle trade was dumb.

E Staal trade was the worst of them all.

The Ryan Clowe and Brendan Smith trades were bad too. Overall in like a 5 year period, we traded a ton of picks in at the deadline, without anything to show for it in terms of long term assets.

 

[Machinehead]

There was absolutely no problem with buying when they did. That roster was in its prime age to compete and they played their hand. And they came pretty damn close.

I simply can't fathom how anybody can look back on 2014 and 2015 and wanna give that back. The whole f***ing point of rebuilding is to do that. If you would give up your success to rebuild, then you don't understand rebuilding. You give up mediocrity to rebuild, not success.

What they're doing now has to happen. You can dissect it move by move, and fear for the execution of it, but it's absolutely the right idea.

The only big overarching mistake this team made (beyond individual moves, I'm talking philosophy) was not going into a full tear down after 2015-16 and wasting the 2016-17 calendar year playing and building with a competitive mindset.

Unpopular opinion, but I will go to my grave saying the 2015-16 team was worse than this one is. Maybe not on paper, but they f***ing played like it. This year, I wouldn't say I get up saying "boy howdy I can't wait to watch the Rangers tonight" but I do it and I don't feel like I'm forcing myself. I want to do it. That 2015-16 team made me wanna gouge my f***ing eyes out. I forced myself just short of gunpoint to watch that team. A two-month stretch of Hank being the best player on the planet (and a subsequent 69-1-2 start, or whatever the f*** it was) is the only thing that put that trash team in the playoffs.

That should have been it and management should have seen it. They didn't. But at the same time, as @ZuccsFluffierFluffer pointed out, huge kudos to management for not falling for the fluke 16-17 run and extending this garbage another year.

Yes, they signed Shattenkirk but that was an offer no other team in the NHL was getting and it basically amounted to "why not?" When you trade Derek Stepan, you're starting a rebuild.

 

[eco's bones]

We've been building and building ever since Henrik arrived on the scene---finally created a window and almost got a Cup and then the window closed a couple years later. In hindsight the year we got Brendan Smith is when we should have started retooling instead and then maybe some of the fallout wouldn't have been so bad but this team was getting too old--it's a year's difference but it might have made a big difference. Anyway things are cyclical. I wouldn't blame Sather/Gorton/Vigneault for going for it in 2014--it almost worked. That's kind of what they should have done.

 

[Off Sides]

They don't make the finals with out the MSL trade in 2014. I'd rather have a shot at the cup than what would have amounted to Nikita Scherbak (the Rangers loved him), Who ever they'd end up drafting the next year and whatever they got for Callahan.

Yandle was horribly misused, but that lies more with the idiot we had as a coach at the time. Still that team was a legitimate contender, it'd be silly not to push your chips into the middle when you have a shot at winning it all.

The plan didn't start too early, if anything it started a bit too late. This should have been their course of action after the completion of the 2015-16 season. We'd be much further along had they decided to start stripping it down at that time. I think the plan up to this point has been pretty clear but they're running out of assets to move. Perhaps this was the plan - to slowly start stripping it away instead of just going all out and moving everything asap - If they don't do anything further this summer the team is going to be crazy horrible next year, which would bode well for their draft.

I can't see them willing to hang around the bottom for any longer than that though and if they did their jobs correctly, they shouldn't have to. If this is year 1 of the rebuild, we should be headed on an upward trajectory by year 3.

Yes they would have, but they may have also won in 2015 and literally no one would care right now.

The window shut after they lost game 7 of the ECF. I know they had a legitimate shot at getting back there 2 seasons later but that was a fools gold run if ever there was one and management saw it too.

Had they kept the band together they would probably be fighting for a playoff spot right now and would have probably made it in last year, despite that, they're closer to winning right now than they would have been if they went that route.

I think our little run of success from 2012-2015 should serve as a cautionary tale. Those teams were good, hell we even had a pretty decent farm at the end of the 2012 season which had already bore a ton of quality fruit for our big squad (which is why I laugh at those who want to crap all over this teams drafting, the foundation of those contending teams was built through the draft.) But no one who you would consider "elite" outside of our goalie and that one year from McDonagh that had yet to happen.

They had to cash in all of their chips in search of that guy - Nash, MSL, Yandle. It almost worked, but it didn't. Those guys were older and either eventually retired, left via UFA or declined and were eventually traded.

Had they drafted their "difference makers" they would have had many more kicks at the can. It's not that building the way that they did before can't work, it almost did - but you're working with much less margin for error, a shorter duration in which you can legitimately compete and you also have to draft a HoF goalie in the 7th round.

Unless he starts wheeling and dealing, I don't see how he'll have a choice. The top UFA's have/will re-up with their current teams or won't be coming here. Panarin is a pipe dream, we're not giving him 11-12 mill a year. I don't see how they can pay for top tier UFAs until they get some of the S's off the books (Which will be easier to accomplish after next season anyway.)

Leadership laden stop gaps on 1 year deals (like a Justin Williams) should be their course of action in UFA.

 

[Ori]

It can change, but right now if we pick 10th-14th overall in 2019 it will hurt the rebuild unless we win in the lottery with less chances compare to the teams below us on the table. So key pieces should be moved earlier and that was the last summer window before the season started. We had too many key pieces like Hayes - so Lias struggled to get on the team who are suppose to be part of the future core after the 2017 draft year. Maybe it`s part of the culture thing or a winning culture whatever that means in pro. sport and NHL since it don`t involve a stanley cup or a player/team trophy. But either you tank for 1st overall or you field a stronger competitive team, and I always felt Jeff Gorton mentioned something in between in an interview before the season started.

Because if we don`t win the lottery - then draft picks start to get complicated; you need to be lucky to hit with a 2nd rounder or a 4th rounder for instant to get an elite talented forward which is almost a requirement to be successful in modern NHL in the last years.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Yandle trade was ok, he was much better than Shattenkirk.

The Staal rental and the MSL were terrible. Clowe was a joke.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Staal trade was stupid. We started making the right decisions around the Stepan trade. Cant changed any of that so with that said I'm happy with what Gorton has done this far and as long as Sather keeps his fingers out of it we will be fine.