Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Arizona Coyotes - January 6

[PuckLuck3043]

I just don't understand the notion of not being able to question AV or this team because, why, they had a couple of deep playoff runs? Where's the Cups? AV has as many Cup rings as I do.

Meanwhile, teams in top 5 in shot differential have won like 10 Cups since the lockout. That's what works. Outplaying your opponents works. Controlling the puck, winning battles, controlling the boards, support all over the ice, having more shots - it works. It's worked for a century.

Trying to make every shot a high-quality chance has rarely worked. "Our goaltender will just make 45 saves" has never worked.

I'm not saying we need to win the Cup every year, but we should be working towards that every year. We're going further and further away from that every year with a philosophy that doesn't get results.

Everyone harps on getting meaningless points in January. "Oh we manage to get points." We should know by now that the record doesn't mean anything. We had more points last year than the year we went to the Finals.

Please explain to me how ANY points are meaningless this year whether it be October, January, or March. Take a look at the standings before you make such comments. We are in a tough division that is separated by 9 points between first and last. Those MEANINGLESS points in January could very well determine who gets in and who goes home.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

He has a shelf life, but I would give Sutter a chance. He changed the culture in LA. We might end up in a lot of 2-1 and 1-0 games and we might even miss the playoffs the first year, but he would change the way we play for the better. His biggest thing is puck support. Whichever team had the puck, he would have two Kings swarming around the puck at all times. Puck support is something we just don't do.

If Carolina decides to move on from Bill Peters, which is a possibility because they're not going anywhere again, I'd love to see what he can do with our goaltending. The Hurricanes dominate just about every night but they haven't had an NHL goaltender since Arturs Irbe. (Great goaltending doesn't win Cups, but garbage goaltending can break a team)

Bob Motzko's teams are an absolute pleasure to watch. The only issue with him is his goaltending selections but he'd have an easy choice here. But who knows if he would leave St. Cloud.

Serious question. Do you drink in the morning? Carolina has been playing great and is currently in the 2nd wild card position. They have a good team and have a legit shot at getting in.

 

[Tawnos]

I know his numbers aren't where they were in previous seasons mostly because of his poor start and horrible defense, but to this point this is one of Hank's best seasons.

If he keeps this up and ends up with a save percentage around 0.928, I think he’s got a shot at the Vezina, because of the story of him reinventing his game and as a sort of emeritus thing like when Brodeur won later in his career.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Lindy Ruff sucks, but our team would be better off with a coach that looked at real numbers instead of a coach that makes up his own. Absolutely.

Again, AV has as many Cup rings as I do. I couldn't really give a rats ass about how many regular season games he's won.

I don't like AV either but I believe in giving credit where credit is do. His teams not only win a lot of regular season games but they win a lot of playoff games as well. He has had quite a few deep playoff runs including 2 finals appearances but no cups means no success to you.

 

[Tawnos]

Look, I defend AV as much as anybody, but I think he’s probably run his course here.

I think of it this way: if the leadership group had gotten stale and that’s a big part of why we buy out Girardi and trade Stepan, isn’t it also likely true that the coaching has gotten stale too?

More than anything, I think they need a fresh take on things... as PART of transitioning. Even if that’s a coach with the same system and a different message in the room.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Look, I defend AV as much as anybody, but I think he’s probably run his course here.

I think of it this way: if the leadership group had gotten stale and that’s a big part of why we buy out Girardi and trade Stepan, isn’t it also likely true that the coaching has gotten stale too?

More than anything, I think they need a fresh take on things... as PART of transitioning. Even if that’s a coach with the same system and a different message in the room.

I mostly agree but he survived his team losing in October and now I just think we are stuck with him for the rest of the year. In Gorton's defense it's very hard to fire a coach that is on pace for another 100 point season and possible playoff appearance. Not many NHL GM's would do that especially with established coaches like AV.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The funny thing with AV is that I think a few tactical changes could help us immensely. We get burned so badly on transition D because our third man in the on the forecheck doesn’t clog the middle. If he really is all about pressure and counterattacking, why not force teams to play a full 200x85 game? That’s pressure and how to wear a team out.

I refuse to believe that we need to be chasing always to maintain the pressure he desires to generate a counterattack

 

[Tawnos]

I mostly agree but he survived his team losing in October and now I just think we are stuck with him for the rest of the year. In Gorton's defense it's very hard to fire a coach that is on pace for another 100 point season and possible playoff appearance. Not many NHL GM's would do that especially with established coaches like AV.

Yeah. Well, I’m not sure he would’ve survived without a terrorist attack in NYC on Halloween. The way the players played desperately in the third period to give their fans something to cheer for galvanized the group and that momentum lasted for a month and a half. It started to fade away around the time we played Dallas in December, and here we are essentially playing the way we did in October, but with better goaltending.

If they don’t find a way to turn their game around again, they will slowly slip away.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

I was at work last night and following the game via this thread. When I got home I turned on the DVR of the game and expected a real stinker that I was going to fast forward through for highlights. Ummm... I'm confused... I saw the same play from the Rangers I've seen all season. I'm not saying they played well, but they played pretty much how they've been playing since October. Is all the teeth gnashing because it was against Arizona?

 

[will1066]

The funny thing with AV is that I think a few tactical changes could help us immensely. We get burned so badly on transition D because our third man in the on the forecheck doesn’t clog the middle. If he really is all about pressure and counterattacking, why not force teams to play a full 200x85 game? That’s pressure and how to wear a team out.

I refuse to believe that we need to be chasing always to maintain the pressure he desires to generate a counterattack

We're actually getting burned ironically by the things we want to do. I think one of our biggest problems is while we play man on man in our own zone, we don't pursue up to the points. Thinking we concede the outside shots to protect close-in shots, it leaves us standing around, being static, on rebound plays.

 

[mcdoughnut]

Star of the game goes to Stepan

(And of course Hank)

 

[LeetchisGod]

Funny, how subjective this is but I have not had a problem with how our back end has played this year. I have a good memory but I recall vividly last year pretty much every single game peeps complaining what a **** show it was with Girardi, Staal especially and how ****ty McDonagh was playing in particularly QBing the PP.

The only dman I read any of the critics in here thought was playing OK was Skeji obviously and Holden and that was mostly because most were shocked at how well he was producing offensively.

This year other than Smitty who looked like **** before he was benched yet who has played much better since he came back from his benching and Shatty who has shown defensively he is pretty much a liability but makes up for it offensively, the rest of the back end including Staal and Holden has been for most part fine and not killing us.

Not a question in my mind our back end is much better than last year from and all around point of view and not sure why you or anyone would think otherwise.

I don't know what games you're watching then. Our slot coverage is among the worst in the league. Opposing forwards are regularly all alone in front of Hank taking multiple whacks at the puck. Not to mention all the odd man rushes and breakaways that we concede.

 

[Tawnos]

I was at work last night and following the game via this thread. When I got home I turned on the DVR of the game and expected a real stinker that I was going to fast forward through for highlights. Ummm... I'm confused... I saw the same play from the Rangers I've seen all season. I'm not saying they played well, but they played pretty much how they've been playing since October. Is all the teeth gnashing because it was against Arizona?

When they were scoring a lot, they weren’t having such a hard time with the puck. Very little the team is doing right now with the puck is working, whether they’re trying to put the puck on net, trying to make a pass, trying to enter the offensive zone cleanly, or trying to exit the defensive zone with possession.

A clear example of this is when you see Shattenkirk, who really is a great passer, put the puck in his partners skates on a breakout. Or when Miller, also a great passer, completely missed Holden in front of the net last night. Miller was frustrated and understandably. There’s no logical reason for that to be happening, yet it’s been happening for 60-65 minutes of play nearly every game for about a month now.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

When they were scoring a lot, they weren’t having such a hard time with the puck. Very little the team is doing right now with the puck is working, whether they’re trying to put the puck on net, trying to make a pass, trying to enter the offensive zone cleanly, or trying to exit the defensive zone with possession.

A clear example of this is when you see Shattenkirk, who really is a great passer, put the puck in his partners skates on a breakout. Or when Miller, also a great passer, completely missed Holden in front of the net last night. Miller was frustrated and understandably. There’s no logical reason for that to be happening, yet it’s been happening for 60-65 minutes of play nearly every game for about a month now.

Yeah, I guess I see your point. I just feel like they've been making bad turnovers, getting hemmed in their zone, skating around like headless chickens, and giving up quality scoring chances all season. I just didn't see all that much that was all that different from any other game outside of an outlier or two where the team came in and played (almost) a full 60 minutes of smart, competitive hockey.

 

[Captain Lindy]

When they were scoring a lot, they weren’t having such a hard time with the puck. Very little the team is doing right now with the puck is working, whether they’re trying to put the puck on net, trying to make a pass, trying to enter the offensive zone cleanly, or trying to exit the defensive zone with possession.

A clear example of this is when you see Shattenkirk, who really is a great passer, put the puck in his partners skates on a breakout. Or when Miller, also a great passer, completely missed Holden in front of the net last night. Miller was frustrated and understandably. There’s no logical reason for that to be happening, yet it’s been happening for 60-65 minutes of play nearly every game for about a month now.

Mid-season doldrums? I don't understand how these players can seemingly lose their basic hockey skills, a game they've been playing all their lives.

 

[Desdichado93]

We were told Hank sucks in shootouts...great job Hank

Well whoever said that should shut the f**** up, Hank is tied all time leader in NHL history when it comes to shootout wins.
Although statistics is only available from 2005/06 season.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Kupo]

You can say the exact same thing about Canadians and Price @NewYorkNick if cups is your reason for success. It`s what it is, but Henrik was closer than Price in 2014 and in 2016-17 season consider your cup reasoning.

No you can’t.

Price hasn’t accomplished as much as Hank. Nor has he had the type of consistency #30 has had throughout his career.

 

[Irishguy42]

Well whoever said that should shut the f**** up, Hank is tied all time leader in NHL history when it comes to shootout wins.
Although statistics is only available from 2005/06 season.


NHL.com - Stats

That's because the shootout started in that season

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I guess I see your point. I just feel like they've been making bad turnovers, getting hemmed in their zone, skating around like headless chickens, and giving up quality scoring chances all season. I just didn't see all that much that was all that different from any other game outside of an outlier or two where the team came in and played (almost) a full 60 minutes of smart, competitive hockey.

You’re only looking at defensive hockey in this post. What’s different is not their defensive play.

Also, no team plays 60 minutes of smart, competitive hockey in more than 20% of their games. That’s just not the way the league works anymore.

 

[Tawnos]

Mid-season doldrums? I don't understand how these players can seemingly lose their basic hockey skills, a game they've been playing all their lives.

Performance isn’t so simple as saying “I’ve been doing this my whole life,” whether we’re talking about sports, music, public speaking (including teaching) or anything else that requires skill. Human beings aren’t machines.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Performance isn’t so simple as saying “I’ve been doing this my whole life,” whether we’re talking about sports, music, public speaking (including teaching) or anything else that requires skill. Human beings aren’t machines.

That was my point.

 

[Tawnos]

That was my point.

Then why did you say you don’t understand when you had the answer already?

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

You’re only looking at defensive hockey in this post. What’s different is not their defensive play.

Also, no team plays 60 minutes of smart, competitive hockey in more than 20% of their games. That’s just not the way the league works anymore.

Yes, you're right - I tend to focus on the defensive part of the game because for me, that's the part that's "broken" with this team. But looking back over scores and thinking back to watching those games, you're right - it seems as if the offense is now "broken" as well.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Then why did you say you don’t understand when you had the answer already?

I meant that could be the only explanation. Bad choice of words, I guess.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, you're right - I tend to focus on the defensive part of the game because for me, that's the part that's "broken" with this team. But looking back over scores and thinking back to watching those games, you're right - it seems as if the offense is now "broken" as well.

It’s an up and down thing. I think the offense will come back soon enough.

But if you really want the epitome of the whole problem, try and think back or rewatch the most recent Detroit game. Ugly.