What makes you think I want to sign those guys? Clearly, I'm against using the FA market in this way because there's a very good chance you will be dissapointed. I don't care if it's for D or for forward. I think we should hold onto our forward prospects, too.
As I stated, simply having patience and developing players is great in theory...except the same way UFAs don't always work out, prospets don't always work out. Waiting three years for a guy to develop only to have him fail is just as bad (if not worse) than signing a guy to a three year deal and he doesn't live up to it. At least with the signing you took a shot.
I fail to see how any of the above is relevant to the argument at hand, or anything I've said.
Good point, you saying I don't consider contracts or cap situations and me pointing out the contract and cap situations is totally irrelevant to anything you have said.
This is the type of thinking that landed us with Steve Eminger and cost us the chance to have John Carlson on this roster. Imagine how different this team would be right now if they held onto some of their picks/prospects over the years. And look how far this mentality has gotten this franchise? Nowhere.
Absolutely. It is also the type of thinking that landed us Chris Pronger, Nicklas Grossmann, Kimmo Timonen, Scott Hartnell, etc. There have been trades where this thinking has hurt us, for sure. But it has also helped. And again, this isn't trading for some over the hill player. It is for a player entering the prime of his career...you know...the years you most want the player on your team.
Time is running out for our D. We are in danger of having one of the worst D squads in the league if we don't start producing some talent there. I'm also tired of having the most expensive D in the league and a clearly bottom 3rd unit, as well.
I'm not all that concerned with that as our defense is pretty god-awful as it is. Trading Morin won't change that. This is not a guy that is going to come in and contribute in any serious way any time soon. In the meantime, solutions can be found in the draft, UFA, or trades. Just as likely a UFA signing hurts us as it is Morin doesn't develop. Why worry about one and not the other? Once again, patience doesn't always work out.
Not every one, but you can be sure almost every one will be paid more than what they are worth.
That's probably true, but you can look at almost every contract and say the same thing. An extra $500k is not something I am going to sweat about (now you say, more like an extra $750k! Remember when David Sloane had to play 43 years ago?!).
Danny Briere is considered a mildly successful UFA signing and we had to be saved by an amnesty rule that we didn't know would exist on that contract. The only UFA signing Holgmren has made that truly delivered to expectations for us was Timonen, and since then we've only seen a couple D of that calibre even hit the market.
To name a few:
Ray Emery
Ian Laperierre
Blair Betts
The legendary Erik Gustafsson
Sergei Bobrovsky
Sean O'Donnell
Matt Read
Jaromir Jagr
Max Talbot
Now you say those moves were "obvious" or "he got lucky" or whatever you want to say to negate these (and other signings that I am sure I left out)
Or maybe you could say all of those teams had patience? They could have easily said hey we suck let's trade all of our picks and prospects to get better.
They absolutely had patience. I am not arguing that. But they were at the bottom of the NHL for a decade or more. If you are ok with that, then great. Have your patience. And the Flyers are not in that position. If Morin was a sure-fire #1 I would not advocate trading him. If they had the #1 pick in the draft I would not advocate trading it. But that isn't the case, is it? No, they have a guy who could be a top pairing defenseman in 3-4 years.
Chicago hand raised their top 3 D, and also rebuilt their roster after their apparent "capmaggedon" after 2010. They mostly did that by plugging in youngsters from their system that they held onto. Guys like Saad and Crawford.
Surely having your key players from a decade of missing the playoffs helped, no? And again, I am not saying patience is always a bad thing, I am simply saying Morin for Pacioretty is not a bad idea.
So how is Detriot not an example of how people here want to handle this situation? They make few trades, are careful on the UFA market, and hold onto their picks and prospects.
Again, as I said, the Red Wings roster is comprised of guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Fransen, etc. that came out of nowehere. That isn't really a strategy, that is being incredibly lucky or having insane scouts. All while having the ageless Niklas Lidstrom on the blueline. Again, not exactly the same situation. If the Flyers 7th round picks turn into Zetterberg and Datsyuk, it won't be because of patience.
Boston made a slam dunk UFA signing in Chara. Other than that, their core players are mostly drafted by them.
I think someone posted earlier in a previous that like half or more were players that were traded for or signed.
These teams all won the cup with very strong D units, too by the way
That's true, and I am not downplaying the need for a good defense. I am simply saying "having patience" with Morin is just as risky as trading him for Pacioretty.
