New York Islanders vs. Edmonton Oilers

[joe_shannon_1983*]

These were two of the greatest dynasties in NHL history.

They did meet against each other twice in the NHL Playoffs.

However, in 1983, the Oilers were not quite what they would become.

And in 1984, the Islanders were not quite what they once were.

So the question is:

If you were to take both teams at the ABSOLUTE PEAK OF THEIR POWERS, and had them play a best-of-seven series for the Stanley Cup, who would win?

And in how many games?

Click to read more...

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

The Isles' dynasty was before my time, so I can't really comment.

Just don't talk to me while that game is on!

 

[Big Phil]

Oilers in 7 games. It would be close. NYI was a bit deeper IMO. But the top end talent goes to the Oilers. Here's how I break it down.

Fuhr = Smith
Gretzky >Trottier
Messier > Bossy
Kurri > Gillies
Anderson > Tonelli
Coffey < Potvin
Sather = Arbour

But the Isles depth players were better with Nystrom, Bourne, Goring, Sutter etc. That being said you'd have to take each team at their best. Give me the '82 Isles with 118 points and the '84 Oilers with 119 points. That's your dream matchup you want. But they would have such a hard time containing Gretzky that this alone would put the Oilers over the top. And Fuhr and Smith are almost identical in their careers. Both won just one Vezina, both won at least 4 Cups, both were clutch, both won a lot, both didnt care about their GAA, both took their game to a new level come playoff time and both would win in a tight game. No room to manouver there.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Sather = Arbour

That is a controversial point of view.

 

[ozzie]

I think Arbour is probably a step ahead of Sather in the coaching department.
To be honest I am not sure how much coaching Sather had to do with the Oilers, he basically let them be creative and play. Arbour put in a defense first approach.

Logically I'd take the peak Oilers in 7 games based on a few things. Even without Gretzky the Oilers still had enough talent to win in 1990 and then you add Gretzky taking his Kings to the finals in 93. If not for Steve Smith, maybe they win 5 in a row. If not for the Gretzky trade, maybe they win a few more. Keeping that team together until 1994 would of been very interesting.

My heart wants to say the Islanders. Mainly because Potvin is my favourite defenseman of all time. The team could play a physical punishing style. Extremely well balanced from top to bottom at both ends of the ice. Their dynasty doesn't get the respect they deserve.

 

[greatgazoo]

Hall of famers:
Oilers: Fuhr, Coffey, Anderson, Kurri, Messier, Gretzky
Isles: Smith, Potvin, Gillies, Trottier, Bossy

I'll take the Oilers in 7.

Plus, the Isles didn't face the same calibre of opposition in the finals during their run as the Oilers did in theirs. With all due respect to the '81 Stars and the '82 Canucks they don't compare to the '85 & '87 Flyers and '88 Bruins for that matter. Plus, the Oil had to get by a couple of excellent Flames teams in the division finals in '84 and '88.

 

[Big Phil]

That is a controversial point of view.

Perhaps, but let's face it here, with this talent the players would be ones winning the games. Also don't confuse Glen Sather in the '80s with the mess we've seen in him in the last 10 years

 

[Isles_Guy*]

this one is easy no disrespect to the oilers either the Isles in 6 and heres why and I was in attendence so I know. the Isles team just locked teams down. they won 19 straight stanley cup series. Thats something that no team is even close to. I think the prior record is 12. also that 1st game in edmonton in the 1983 finals was the best game I have ever witnessed it was 1-0 until an empty net goal with a little over a minute to go and you had to be there to understand. Edmonton had come into that series totally crushing teams all year.

The Islanders didn't just win, they completely humbled the high scoring Edmontonians. The Oilers scored 424 goals in the regular season, but could only muster 6 in the 4 game finals loss. By way of comparison the high scoring Isles were outscored by 120 by the Oilers that year. Wayne Gretzky scored 71 goals in the regular season, and another 12 goals and 38 points in these playoffs. But the Islanders great checking and the battling goaltender Billy Smith kept #99 off of the score sheet.

Kevin Lowe said it best in his autobiography when he and Gretzky were shocked as they walked by the Islanders dressing room on the way out of the rink. The Islanders were not in the midst of a grand celebration, but rather busy attending to their numerous bumps and bruises. Lowe said that was when they realized what it took to be champions. Gretzky ever the Gentleman later said that Islander team they played in that series had to be the greatest team ever assembled.

imagine shutting out the great one in a Stanley Cup final. remember too that that Islander team had played the equivalent of 6 seasons while everyone else had played 5 by the time the Oilers won in 1984 with all the playoff games they had played.

as I said there is no disrespect to the Oilers because for sheer dominance of an opponent on any given night nobody touched them but when even the Great one himself says the Isles were the best Team you give him his props and agree. Ive always had the utmost respect for the man saying that and when we lost to them the next year it was fitting because it was like the passing of the torch.

now if you asked me the best assemblage of talent on one team in hockey history its the Oilers of that era and nobody is even close. But as a team youd be doing a grave disservice to say anyone was better than that Islander group

and that 19 straight stanley cup series wins no one will ever touch that. it was impossible when it happened. you could put Malkin Crosby and Ovechkin Lidstrom and Pronger on a team today and I doubt they'd do it just too much sustained pressure.. even the Great Oilers the best they could do was 9 straight stanley cup series wins. not even Half way. Hell even the Islander players are proudest of that.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Perhaps, but let's face it here, with this talent the players would be ones winning the games. Also don't confuse Glen Sather in the '80s with the mess we've seen in him in the last 10 years

He hasn't been a regular coach for quite some time, so obviously it's different. I rank him as a top 10 all-time coach. But, Arbour may be the best hockey coach of all time. Only Bowman and Blake contend.

 

[HotToddy]

this one is easy no disrespect to the oilers either the Isles in 6 and heres why and I was in attendence so I know. the Isles team just locked teams down. they won 19 straight stanley cup series. Thats something that no team is even close to. I think the prior record is 12. also that 1st game in edmonton in the 1983 finals was the best game I have ever witnessed it was 1-0 until an empty net goal with a little over a minute to go and you had to be there to understand. Edmonton had come into that series totally crushing teams all year.

The Islanders didn't just win, they completely humbled the high scoring Edmontonians. The Oilers scored 424 goals in the regular season, but could only muster 6 in the 4 game finals loss. By way of comparison the high scoring Isles were outscored by 120 by the Oilers that year. Wayne Gretzky scored 71 goals in the regular season, and another 12 goals and 38 points in these playoffs. But the Islanders great checking and the battling goaltender Billy Smith kept #99 off of the score sheet.

Kevin Lowe said it best in his autobiography when he and Gretzky were shocked as they walked by the Islanders dressing room on the way out of the rink. The Islanders were not in the midst of a grand celebration, but rather busy attending to their numerous bumps and bruises. Lowe said that was when they realized what it took to be champions. Gretzky ever the Gentleman later said that Islander team they played in that series had to be the greatest team ever assembled.

imagine shutting out the great one in a Stanley Cup final. remember too that that Islander team had played the equivalent of 6 seasons while everyone else had played 5 by the time the Oilers won in 1984 with all the playoff games they had played.

as I said there is no disrespect to the Oilers because for sheer dominance of an opponent on any given night nobody touched them but when even the Great one himself says the Isles were the best Team you give him his props and agree. Ive always had the utmost respect for the man saying that and when we lost to them the next year it was fitting because it was like the passing of the torch.

now if you asked me the best assemblage of talent on one team in hockey history its the Oilers of that era and nobody is even close. But as a team youd be doing a grave disservice to say anyone was better than that Islander group

and that 19 straight stanley cup series wins no one will ever touch that. it was impossible when it happened.you could put Malkin Crosby and Ovechkin Lidstrom and Pronger on a team today and I doubt they'd do it just too much sustained pressure.. even the Great Oilers the best they could do was 9 straight stanley cup series wins. not even Half way

The Islanders team never faced the Oilers in their prime while the Oilers 84 cup team, basically a team of 24 year olds wiped the floor with a vet Islander team.

Not sure how that Oiler team 4 or 5 years down the road intact would have faired worse against the Islander team.

Teams as young as the 84 Oilers were don't win cups and the argument that the Islanders won four straight is great but the longevity of a winning streak has as much to do with luck and fate as it does sure brilliance. The Oilers made 6 cup apperances in 8 years and won two or more playoff series in 8 out of ten years. They were the team to beat for basically 10 years. Not sure how the Islanders 5 years of greatness compares to that.

 

[Isles_Guy*]

Oilers in 7 games. It would be close. NYI was a bit deeper IMO. But the top end talent goes to the Oilers. Here's how I break it down.

Fuhr = Smith
Gretzky >Trottier
Messier > Bossy
Kurri > Gillies
Anderson > Tonelli
Coffey < Potvin
Sather = Arbour

But the Isles depth players were better with Nystrom, Bourne, Goring, Sutter etc. That being said you'd have to take each team at their best. Give me the '82 Isles with 118 points and the '84 Oilers with 119 points. That's your dream matchup you want. But they would have such a hard time containing Gretzky that this alone would put the Oilers over the top. And Fuhr and Smith are almost identical in their careers. Both won just one Vezina, both won at least 4 Cups, both were clutch, both won a lot, both didnt care about their GAA, both took their game to a new level come playoff time and both would win in a tight game. No room to manouver there.

see but youre wrong there the Isles did hold him scoreless in the final in 1982-1983 so your premise falls apart right there. Gretzky had had 38 points in 13 games in the playoffs prior to that but not only did they contain him they shut him out.. Wayne himself said they were better. you gotta figure he would know

 

[Isles_Guy*]

The Islanders team never faced the Oilers in their prime while the Oilers 84 cup team, basically a team of 24 year olds wiped the floor with a vet Islander team.

Not sure how that Oiler team 4 or 5 years down the road intact would have faired worse against the Islander team.

Teams as young as the 84 Oilers were don't win cups and the argument that the Islanders won four straight is great but the longevity of a winning streak has as much to do with luck and fate as it does sure brilliance. The Oilers made 6 cup apperances in 8 years and won two or more playoff series in 8 out of ten years. They were the team to beat for basically 10 years. Not sure how the Islanders 5 years of greatness compares to that.

oh come on that 83 team was statistically just as good as 84. you can say whatever you want but even Wayne said it and Lowe in his autobiography. At their best they shut Gretzky out how do the oilers win without Gretzky scoring a point?

Wayne had scored 3 points a game on average up until that point in the playoffs. his youth wasnt hurting him then? the oilers had won 12 of 13 playoff games......your argument is so full of holes its ridiculous. the Oilers never had a better record in any of their championship years heading into the final

 

[Trottier]

The Islanders team never faced the Oilers in their prime while the Oilers 84 cup team, basically a team of 24 year olds wiped the floor with a vet Islander team.

Odd that you would make an excuse for the Oilers team whom the Isles "wiped the floor with" in the spring of '83, yet would conveniently omit the fact that the Isles team in '84 was playing with 16 guys who had serious injuries, the majority of whom required surgery at season's end.

Indeed, neither youth nor injuries is an excuse.

The truth is, by spring of '84 it was the Oilers time. Your version of history, however, is dubious, to be kind.

....the argument that the Islanders won four straight is great but the longevity of a winning streak has as much to do with luck and fate as it does sure brilliance.

Dear God, now the Isles four straight was attributable in great part to luck and fate. Please. That crap plays on the kid's board, not here. If you are old enough to have watched that team you should be embarassed to make that comment. And if you aren't best not to speak of that which you do not know.

***

Truth is, a great case could be made for either team. Oilers had more Cups in them, which counts for alot, IMO. And they are without question the greatest offensive team ever. Isles, however, could beat you at any game, much like the Habs teams of 1976-79. Oilers couldn't.

 

[Isles_Guy*]

Truth is, a great case could be made for either team. Oilers had more Cups in them, which counts for alot, IMO. And they are without question the greatest offensive team ever. Isles, however, could beat you at any game, much like the Habs teams of 1976-79. Oilers couldn't.

We were truly blessed werent we my friend here it is 25 years later and its like yesterday still

 

[Trottier]

We were truly blessed werent we my friend here it is 25 years later and its like yesterday still

Indeed. I love telling the story of a Ranger friend of mine who once asked me, in total seriousness in the middle of the dynasty run run, out of admiration and frustration:

"They can't win forever....Can they?"

They were that good.

Be it the Oilers (who I obviously detested at the time, but with the passing of time admire greatly) or NYI, we'll never see the likes of them again. Of that I'm quite certain.

 

[Mr Pipe]

Those four Islanders teams are the best I've ever seen. With each team in their primes, I'd say the Isles win in 5. The Oilers were great too, obviously. But no one tops the Islanders of the early 80s.

 

[Isles_Guy*]

Indeed. I love telling the story of a Ranger friend of mine who once asked me, in total seriousness in the middle of the dynasty run run, out of admiration and frustration:

"They can't win forever....Can they?"

They were that good.

Be it the Oilers (who I obviously detested at the time, but with the passing of time admire greatly) or NYI, we'll never see the likes of them again. Of that I'm quite certain.

never... those two teams were the yin and yang of hockey. its funny I was a huge fan and going into that series I couldnt figure out how are we gonna beat them. I really couldnt imagine it happening. Then in game 1 Battling Billy showed us all how. greatest game ever nothing ever came close.

Thats how I know Toddy is wrong because of that game. I totally was psyched out by them going into that series. it was like Rocky going into the ring against Ivan Drago in Rocky 4. but Smitty stoned them

 

[Kyle McMahon]

oh come on that 83 team was statistically just as good as 84. you can say whatever you want but even Wayne said it and Lowe in his autobiography. At their best they shut Gretzky out how do the oilers win without Gretzky scoring a point?

But Gretzky and the Oilers weren't at their best in '83, so your argument is also shot down. As far as I'm concerned the Oilers, and Gretzky, were at their peak in 1987 and 1988, a full four or five years after they lost in 1983. The comparison needs to be those Oiler teams versus whatever Islander team is deemed the best. As the OP mentioned, comparing the 83 and 84 teams is pointless, because it's generally accepted that neither was at their peak.

 

[Trottier]

Then in game 1 Battling Billy showed us all how. greatest game ever nothing ever came close.

Game One of the 1983 Cup Finals is the best NHL game I've ever witnessed. Bossy out sick, Oilers seemingly in NYI's zone for 50 minutes of the game. And Billy Smith with nothing short of an epic performance. Essentially a 1-0 game with an empty netter making it a 2-0 Isles win.

Fast-forward one year later, and the Oilers, out of character, win Game One of the Finals, 1-0. Gretzky said it: that win - more specifically, how they won that game - told the Oilers they could win the Cup. And they did.

It's why any time a genius on this board laments low scoring games, I chuckle. Two of the best teams ever. Two of the most riveting games ever. Three goals between both in six periods of play.

As the OP mentioned, comparing the 83 and 84 teams is pointless, because it's generally accepted that neither was at their peak.

The best Isles team (ever) was the 1981-82 team. They walked through the league that season, and once they got past the scare of the Pens in Round One, walked through the postseason, as well. As Isles_Guy said, few (including their own fans) favored NYI going into the '83 Finals, let alone predicted a sweep.

 

[Jumptheshark]

i am bias cause I am an oiler fan

if you could have the best iced team between the two at a time when they were in their prime

Oilers in

The second line of Messier--Anderson--Coffey would be the difference

The oilers 3rd line was better then some teams 2nd line

 

[Dark Shadows]

Isles in 7.

The Islanders team never faced the Oilers in their prime while the Oilers 84 cup team, basically a team of 24 year olds wiped the floor with a vet Islander team.

Not sure how that Oiler team 4 or 5 years down the road intact would have faired worse against the Islander team.

Let's not be silly.

I really do not feel like getting into a heated discussion today, but the Isles the Oiler beat for their first cup were far removed from their greatness the past year. And when I say far removed, I know it is only a year's difference, but you need to take into context the Isles players who were close to retirement by this point, as well as the fact that most of their main cast was hurt.

Trottier was hobbled for a season and a half starting in Jan 1984 by a knee injury which required arthroscopic surgery to the point that they were barely using him as a first line player. Potvin by the time the playoffs rolled around was playing at half capacity due to injuries and for that matter most of their defense squad was off and on. Persson and Langevin both had shoulder injuries and thus, were missing games and ineffectual while there, while Morrow had knee problems that year(Surgery) and was ineffectual. Bourne and Nystrom, 2 of their most solid secondary scorers were both out with knee injuries and Brent Sutter, another solid scorer just had surgery for an infection and tendon damage due to it of all things, as well as buggering his knee in the playoffs, was injured and toughed it out, as was Tonelli, with yet another shoulder injury(And he had missed time right before the playoffs with a sprained knee, and was not 100% to begin with). Sutter and Tonelli were the best checking line players on the team and solid scorers to boot.

Goring was set to retire at this point, no longer effective.

Their whole team was walking wounded.

I understand you want to give the Oilers props, but let's not imply that the Isles team was even remotely close to their best, Okay? Thanks

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I took the Isles in 7, mainly because I think they would play better in a close series. The Oilers played from ahead most of time. And I'd give the edge to Billy Smith over Grant Fuhr in the big game.

 

[lextune]

Fuhr = Smith
Gretzky >Trottier
Messier > Bossy
Kurri > Gillies
Anderson > Tonelli
Coffey < Potvin
Sather = Arbour

You could just as easily change that to:
Bossy > Kurri

I voted Isles in 7.

 

[HotToddy]

I find it extremely humourous that you have to contiually hear from Stan Fischler, Isle fans and Dennis Potvin about how banged up their team was in 84 and how so and so had his dad die and on and on. You were missing basically two players so lets not play the excuse game, regarless of the health of the Isles they weren't beating the Oielrs that year or ever again for that matter

I also think people need to look up the facts regarding the 84 Islanders. that wasn't some team of has beens and washed up stars their entire core was in their prime, Trottier, Bossy, Tonnelli, Potvin they were all under 30 and again beaten by 24 year olds.

The Islanders were a great dynasty no question and probably one of the 4 or 5 best ever, its unfortunate that their was no space between their greatness and the Oilers because I do feel the Islander teams of the 80's have been unfairly over shawdowed but the Oiler dynasty was broken up well before its best due date. And Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and company in their prime are unbeatable by anybody.

 

[brianscot]

I'll go Isles in seven.

NY's defensive depth at their pinnacle (Potvin, Jonsson, Persson, Morrow, Langevin, Lane, et al) and overall team defense wouldn't have stopped the Oilers, but would have interrupted them.

Indeed, they would have interrupted them far more than Edmonton's defense would have impeded the Islanders grind it out attack.