New School vs Old School - The Ultimate Player Edition

[Samsquanch]

Yes, but you are comparing him to the guy who redefined what size and skill looked like in the NHL.

I think you just picked the wrong word to use in terms of "body". If Mario and Orr are compared in terms of legacy. Orr is going to be the prototypical modern skating style and Mario is always going to be the prototypical "big man" who redefined what skilled players could look like throughout the next 20 years.

Im telling you that for a fact dude, if you wanted someone to physically match up against a monster like Lindros - Orrs body and strength has a better chance at holding up than Lemieux's does.

Thats no disrespect to Mario, but like Wayne Gretzky would have to do when a freight train like Lindros is coming towards him, getting out of the way is the best option for survival. He soaked up damage like a Rocky Balboa, but wasnt freakishly strong or athletically built in his upper body.

Orr would try his best to imitate Scott Stevens if he saw Lindros coming down the lane, and wouldn't hesitate to drop the gloves with him either.

Edit: And fwiw, no player in the history of the NHL changed how the game was played more than Bobby Orr did after his time there. Truth.

 

[Gurglesons]

Im telling you that for a fact dude, if you wanted someone to physically match up against a monster like Lindros - Orrs body and strength has a better chance at holding up than Lemieux's does.

Thats no disrespect to Mario, but like Wayne Gretzky would have to do when a freight train like Lindros is coming towards him, getting out of the way is the best option for survival. He soaked up damage like a Rocky Balboa, but wasnt freakishly strong or athletically built in his upper body.

Orr would try his best to imitate Scott Stevens if he saw Lindros coming down the lane, and wouldn't hesitate to drop the gloves with him either.

Edit: And fwiw, no player in the history of the NHL changed how the game was played more than Bobby Orr did after his time there. Truth.

I see you're a part of the Lindros was a wrecking ball and most dominate physical player we've seen narrative that has popped up over the last 10 years or so.

My dad is a diehard Flyers fan so I watched a ton of peak Lindros. The narrative on this board with him has almost gotten as bad as it is with Forsberg.

1v1 coming down the lane, Mario Lemieux is the most feared player in NHL history.

I could give a shit about extra curricular behavior like fighting and big hits. Never been my type of hockey.

 

[Samsquanch]

I see you're a part of the Lindros was a wrecking ball and most dominate physical player we've seen narrative that has popped up over the last 10 years or so.

My dad is a diehard Flyers fan so I watched a ton of peak Lindros. The narrative on this board with him has almost gotten as bad as it is with Forsberg.

1v1 coming down the lane, Mario Lemieux is the most feared player in NHL history.

And thats because he was. At least in terms of front line players.

I think what your really having a hard time with is separating the difference between size and physical strength,

Believe it or not, there is not a direct correlation between the two of them, and there are freak outliers everywhere to prove that to be true. Point being is that Size/weight doesnt automatically = strength.

There is a reason why a guy like GSP (George St Pierre - mma) can train and wrestle with a guy like Chael Sonnen, whos two weight divisions above him, and Chael can walk away in disbelief at how strong and powerful GSP is - despite giving up 25+ lbs in weight to him.



Theres a reason why Cam Neely was the best PWF in the league in the 90's despite only being 6'1 and 185lbs. Or why 5'11 218lbs prime Mike Tyson could drop any 6'7 250lbs giant on the planet. Or how Tie Domi was the leagues toughest guy at 5'10.

Some people are freakishly strong. Waaaay stronger than their size. Bobby Orr was one of those guys. Lemieux was simply about as strong as his size and build (lean upper body) would indicate, imo.

But the scary thing about 6'5 230lbs Eric Lindros is that he was also one of those freak specimens, and somehow even stronger than his size would indicate...He was the Lebron James NHL equivalent in terms of freak athletics.

 

[Gurglesons]

And thats because he was. At least in terms of front line players.

I think what your really having a hard time with is separating the difference size from physical strength,

Believe it or not, there is not a direct correlation between the two of them, and there are freak outliers everywhere to prove that to be true. Point being is that Size/weight doesnt automatically = strength.

There is a reason why a guy like GSP (George St Pierre - mma) can train and wrestle with a guy like Chael Sonnen, whos two weight divisions above him, and Chael can walk away in disbelief at how strong and powerful GSP is - despite giving up 25+ lbs in weight to him.



Theres a reason why Cam Neely was the best PWF in the league in the 90's despite only being 6'1 and 185lbs. Or why 5'11 218lbs Mike Tyson could drop 6'7 250lbs giants with the hardest punches on the planet. Or how Tie Domi was the leagues toughest guy at 5'10.

Some people are freakishly strong. Waaaay stronger than their size. Bobby Orr was one of those guys.

But the scary thing about 6'5 230lbs Eric Lindros is that he was also one of those freak specimens, and somehow even stronger than his size would indicate...He was the Lebron James NHL equivalent in terms of freak athletics.

Wasn't strong enough to get through a full season healthy or being anywhere close to the most dominant player in any of his years.

I have no confusion over size from physical strength. Lemieux carried the best of the best in his era on his back while he deked out the goaltender.

 

[BlueBaron]

Like Im debating with the other gentleman above, Bobby Orr was a physical BEAST. A powerful and strong man that was more athletically gifted than the rest of the league by a long shot. With modern training he would have been beyond scary. Smaller than Mario true, but this is like prime Mike Tyson VS whoever you want imo - freak athletics trumps it all here.

Durability and longevity doesnt matter if you read the OP - were taking the best of each of their traits at their peaks.

Mario has the GOAT hands imo and I wanted him to be there for that reason. And I mean he has more than adequate speed (Orr could be a better overall skater. but thats not how the categories were broken down - and Orr still loses to McDavid at the end of the day).

And Crosby has the mind and work ethic to put the tools all to good use, so thats why Im sticking with the newer generation.

I respect your opinion, it seems well thought out. I'll stick with mine though since there is no right answer.

 

[Samsquanch]

I respect your opinion, it seems well thought out. I'll stick with mine though since there is no right answer.

 

[Samsquanch]

Wasn't strong enough to get through a full season healthy or being anywhere close to the most dominant player in any of his years.

I have no confusion over size from physical strength. Lemieux carried the best of the best in his era on his back while he deked out the goaltender.

K man. I can live with your opinion that Lemieux was the most "physical?" player on the list, when they were all at peak form.... It doesnt really matter.

I dont think anyone thats sober will agree with you. But Im not going to talk about Lemieux's physical play anymore myself.

 

[Gurglesons]

K man. I can live with your opinion that Lemieux was the most "physical?" player on the list, when they were all at peak form.... It doesnt really matter.

I dont think anyone thats sober will agree with you. But Im not going to talk about Lemieux's physical play anymore myself.

Basically everyone that has posted in here has questioned why you had Orr as the "body" and Lemieux as the "legs". I think it is pretty much unanimous that Orr's greatest aspect was his skating ability and Lemieux after his hands was the fact he had those hands on the body he had.

 

[Samsquanch]

Basically everyone that has posted in here has questioned why you had Orr as the "body" and Lemieux as the "legs". I think it is pretty much unanimous that Orr's greatest aspect was his skating ability and Lemieux after his hands was the fact he had those hands on the body he had.

Because its Legs AND Hands. Mario had the GOAT hands and deserves that spot, while having crazy speed as well. Orr was known for his physical dominance in the correct sense.

But I know your just being obtuse anyways.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because its Legs AND Hands. Mario had the GOAT hands and deserves that spot, while having crazy speed as well. Orr was known for his physical dominance in the correct sense.

But I know your just being obtuse anyways.

I get how you did it. But, acting like only sober people will agree with me by saying Lemieux is renowned for his "body" (aka size) is proven wrong by the fact most of the posts so far in this poll are saying why did you include legs with Mario and body with Orr.

 

[Thenameless]

Lemieux is going to be harder to play against in the corners or in front of the net. If you're talking about big hits and fighting, I dunno. I don't really care TBH if I have Lemieux combined with Gretzky on my team.

No man. I'm sorry, but you're just way off here. Lemieux's probably my second favourite player, but the other guy is right. Lemieux was a purely finesse player, who happened to be housed in a large body. Bobby Orr was a lot more physical than he was. If we're talking about play in the corners or in front of the net, it's Orr.

 

[Stephen]

Question. What are we actually getting with the 'Body of Orr" without any of the skill and mental attributes when it doesn't even come with his legs?

 

[Thenameless]

Let's try this another way for fun.

Lemieux - Gretzky - Geoff Sanderson
Bobby Orr - Gerald Diduck

Crosby - Matthews - McDavid
Erik Karlson - Victor Hedman

 

[Gurglesons]

Question. What are we actually getting with the 'Body of Orr" without any of the skill and mental attributes when it doesn't even come with his legs?

Apparently Scott Stevens +?

 

[Gurglesons]

No man. I'm sorry, but you're just way off here. Lemieux's probably my second favourite player, but the other guy is right. Lemieux was a purely finesse player, who happened to be housed in a large body. Bobby Orr was a lot more physical than he was. If we're talking about play in the corners or in front of the net, it's Orr.

Lemieux had two players draped over him at all times. I disagree completely.

I mean the dude couldn't even get a statue built of him without other players being involved.

 

[Stephen]

Apparently Scott Stevens +?

You'd probably want Mario's body with Bobby Orr's legs...

 

[Gurglesons]

You'd probably want Mario's body with Bobby Orr's legs...

At this point in my life I'll take either's body..

 

[Thenameless]

Lemieux had two players draped over him at all times. I disagree completely.

I mean the dude couldn't even get a statue built of him without other players being involved.

Oh absolutely. I basically watched every minute of his career.

You're still not getting it though. Lemieux's big body helped him to overcome all those guys draped all over him. But, and this is the big point, he did not look for that contact. If he could beat you cleanly, that was still his preference. The proof is in his first retirement, when Lemieux complained about how the NHL didn't properly protect its stars by allowing clutch and grab play, and water skiing by unskilled players. He didn't bowl through people like a guy like Lindros did. And Lemieux was extremely soft to the point of just not even trying at times on the defensive end.

Bobby Orr, on the other hand, was like any gifted offensive player in that he would prefer to beat you cleanly if he could, using his speed and skill. But, on the defensive end, Bobby Orr could beat you many ways. He could steal the puck with a clean poke check, but he could also resort to very physical play if the situation called for it, unlike Lemieux. Now, do you get it?

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh absolutely. I basically watched every minute of his career.

You're still not getting it though. Lemieux's big body helped him to overcome all those guys draped all over him. But, and this is the big point, he did not look for that contact. If he could beat you cleanly, that was still his preference. The proof is in his first retirement, when Lemieux complained about how the NHL didn't properly protect its stars by allowing clutch and grab play, and water skiing by unskilled players. He didn't bowl through people like a guy like Lindros did. And Lemieux was extremely soft to the point of just not even trying at times on the defensive end.

Bobby Orr, on the other hand, was like any gifted offensive player in that he would prefer to beat you cleanly if he could, using his speed and skill. But, on the defensive end, Bobby Orr could beat you many ways. He could steal the puck with a clean poke check, but he could also resort to very physical play if the situation called for it, unlike Lemieux. Now, do you get it?

Lemieux is the best one on one player in the history of the game because of his size. The poll says "pick a body". I'm taking Lemieux's over Orr's.

If we are talking about defensive play. Yes, I'm taking the best defenseman ever to play the game, no shit. Do you get it?

 

[Thenameless]

Lemieux is the best one on one player in the history of the game because of his size. The poll says "pick a body". I'm taking Lemieux's over Orr's.

If we are talking about defensive play. Yes, I'm taking the best defenseman ever to play the game, no shit. Do you get it?

It went totally over your head. The other guy is right, and you just don't want to admit it. Orr in the corners and in front of the net. If you don't believe it, do up a poll for that specifically, and you'll see how wrong you are.

 

[Samsquanch]

Question. What are we actually getting with the 'Body of Orr" without any of the skill and mental attributes when it doesn't even come with his legs?

Brutal...

Orr was a physical specimen to behold. You guys need to look past the size and weight, this is embarrassing.

He was a powerful man that overpowered his opponents with pure strength rather than finesse. It wasnt just straight up speed that made this man a hockey god...

Ask anyone who knows, Orr was as feared and imposing physically as any player in the league during his prime time. And he didnt just do that by putting mind over matter either....he had the god given physical strength and power needed to play way he did.

I'm blown away that there are this many oblivious hockey fans.

And the difference between Lemieux (85-90) and Orrs skating is smaller (maybe nil) than the difference between their hands, where Mario has the clear edge over Bobby.

The poll was made this way for a reason - I tried to make a player that could rival one thats being made from the 3 GOATS, ffs. There need to be some parameters here to even start the conversation....

 

[Samsquanch]

Lemieux is the best one on one player in the history of the game because of his size. The poll says "pick a body". I'm taking Lemieux's over Orr's.

If we are talking about defensive play. Yes, I'm taking the best defenseman ever to play the game, no shit. Do you get it?

It definitely does not say that.

It was carefully laid out in the way that it was for a reason. Your friggin lost man...

Orr loses to McDavid in skating and hands. Lemieux does not, hes got the magic hands. If you would prefer Marios body with Orr's hands and legs, so be it. Thats not how I asked the question in the poll though. We arent picking and choosing random standout traits from the players. Get it now?

Is that enough for you to let it go...?

 

[North Cole]

Basically Bo Jackson on skates with Crosbys IQ. Crosby has concussion issues, but with his awareness that player might stand a better chance than what happened to Lindros.

The old school player is just better, but Orrs knees are his knees, so longevity is still an issue. Not really sure that player is better having an Orr body, since Lemieux was a beast physically in his own right.

 

[Stephen]

Brutal...

Orr was a physical specimen to behold. You guys need to look past the size and weight, this is embarrassing.

He was a powerful man that overpowered his opponents with pure strength rather than finesse. It wasnt just straight up speed that made this man a hockey god...

Ask anyone who knows, Orr was as feared and imposing physically as any player in the league during his prime time. And he didnt just do that by putting mind over matter either....he had the god given physical strength and power needed to play way he did.

I'm blown away that there are this many oblivious hockey fans.

And the difference between Lemieux (85-90) and Orrs skating is smaller (maybe nil) than the difference between their hands, where Mario has the clear edge over Bobby.

The poll was made this way for a reason - I tried to make a player that could rival one thats being made from the 3 GOATS, ffs. There need to be some parameters here to even start the conversation....

Bobby Orr was also famed to for having lower body strength from his bow legs, which gave him his famed skating and lower body strength. So take that away, what do you have, a strong 6'0" guy's torso? You already have Mario's limbs anyway, what do you need the extra Frankenstein factor for when you've already ignored Orr's greatest attribute?