New Line Combos (10/22) lots of changes

[KingKopitar11*]

You don't think Ovi can learn to play a better 2 way game under Sutter, much like Carter has under Sutter? And remember, we're the Kings, not the Caps, who allow the type of undisciplined freedom Ovi has played under.

Most of these guys are former Flyers fans. They think Richards is the captain or something. They seem to forget the kings have a lot of leaders besides Richards. Most of these people just have a crush on Richards. Any other unbiased person would Choose Ovi over Richards if cap wasn't involved.

The fact she said the caps would win the cup with Richards says all you need to know.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Most of these guys are former Flyers fans. They think Richards is the captain or something. They seem to forget the kings have a lot of leaders besides Richards. Most of these people just have a crush on Richards. Any other unbiased person would Choose Ovi over Richards if cap wasn't involved.

The fact she said the caps would win the cup with Richards says all you need to know.

Funny thing is, if they would take the Ovi/MR trade proposal to the trades board, they know that they'll be laughed at so they won't do it. But in the comfort of our kings board, where brainwashing seems to be a regularity, they can stand strong as one I guess.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Funny thing is, if they would take the Ovi/MR trade proposal to the trades board, they know that they'll be laughed at so they won't do it. But in the comfort of our kings board, where brainwashing seems to be a regularity, they can stand strong as one I guess.

Pretty much. I'd love to see them make it poll and see how Ovi wins a land slide.

 

[Telos]

Wouldn't mind seeing:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Pearson-Richards-Carter
Clifford-Stoll-Frattin
King-Lewis-Nolan

 

[jml87]

You don't think Ovi can learn to play a better 2 way game under Sutter, much like Carter has under Sutter? And remember, we're the Kings, not the Caps, who allow the type of undisciplined freedom Ovi has played under.

Why would I want a guy to have to learn a style that Richards already knows. If sutter could teach this style to anyone than why is toffoli in the minors. Carter is not Ovechkin. Carter was willing to change around his whole game. And after all that Jeff is still not on Mike's level when it comes to 2 way play.

And again going back to Philly, since when were they disciplined? We're talking about a pond hockey style under Laviolette and an overall focus on offense. Yet Richards was able to take that and still play his two way style and lead his team to multiple conference finals. Since then, Philly has been a mess without Richards to cover up the offense's lack of two way ability. When facing any sort of defensive system, the flyers fold. So yes, I think that the caps would win with Richards, a lot more than they've won with Ovie and I think the Kings would have a hard time without Richards. How far do the kings get last year without Richards to carry them when Kopitar and Brown were doing nothing? How far do they get without Mike to set the pace in game 1 in Vancouver? You think Ovechkin can do the same? What historical proof do you have that he could?

I'm not talking about just Ovie either. I'd take Richards over guys like Giroux and stamkos too. I know that's hard to believe but I believe in what Richards brings outside of the score sheet. For that matter, why is it that if given the choice, Carter would want to play with Richards over anyone else? It isn't just cause they are friends but because he knows what mike brings to a team even if he isn't scoring a ton of goals. He knows Mike cares more about putting him in a position to score over padding his own stats.

You ask hockey players and coaches who they'd rather play with. The guy who doesn't even bother to back check in a playoff game or the guy who lays full out to try to stop an empty net goal in a 4-1 game? The truth is Ovie shouldn't need someone to teach him that, he should be willing to do whatever it takes to help his team win which is what Mike does without even thinking about it.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Why would I want a guy to have to learn a style that Richards already knows. If sutter could teach this style to anyone than why is toffoli in the minors. Carter is not Ovechkin. Carter was willing to change around his whole game. And after all that Jeff is still not on Mike's level when it comes to 2 way play.

And again going back to Philly, since when were they disciplined? We're talking about a pond hockey style under Laviolette and an overall focus on offense. Yet Richards was able to take that and still play his two way style and lead his team to multiple conference finals. Since then, Philly has been a mess without Richards to cover up the offense's lack of two way ability. When facing any sort of defensive system, the flyers fold. So yes, I think that the caps would win with Richards, a lot more than they've won with Ovie and I think the Kings would have a hard time without Richards. How far do the kings get last year without Richards to carry them when Kopitar and Brown were doing nothing? How far do they get without Mike to set the pace in game 1 in Vancouver? You think Ovechkin can do the same? What historical proof do you have that he could?

I'm not talking about just Ovie either. I'd take Richards over guys like Giroux and stamkos too. I know that's hard to believe but I believe in what Richards brings outside of the score sheet. For that matter, why is it that if given the choice, Carter would want to play with Richards over anyone else? It isn't just cause they are friends but because he knows what mike brings to a team even if he isn't scoring a ton of goals. He knows Mike cares more about putting him in a position to score over padding his own stats.

You ask hockey players and coaches who they'd rather play with. The guy who doesn't even bother to back check in a playoff game or the guy who lays full out to try to stop an empty net goal in a 4-1 game? The truth is Ovie shouldn't need someone to teach him that, he should be willing to do whatever it takes to help his team win which is what Mike does without even thinking about it.

Really? Do you even watch the caps play? Ovi back checks a lot for a WINGER. Richards can be great for a young team with no leadership. We have a ton of that outside Richards. I bet if you asked Lombardi he'd take Ovi in a heart beat. You have to have the perfect mix of leadership and goal scoring. We have a lot of leadership, but not a potent offense. The kings would be better off with Ovi instead of Richards. Plus if we are gonna talk about back checking, I'm sure you're just talking about the Ovi gif, Crosby got smoked in the Boston Series and gave up a ton on plays and he's a center. It happens. Ovechkin would be an improvement, because what Richards brings, we already have. We have a great core, with out Richards as well. Adding a generational goal scorer over a great leader for the kings would be an improvement. Richards isn't even the captain, and Kopitar is a great leader. Along with Quick.

 

[jml87]

Most of these guys are former Flyers fans. They think Richards is the captain or something. They seem to forget the kings have a lot of leaders besides Richards. Most of these people just have a crush on Richards. Any other unbiased person would Choose Ovi over Richards if cap wasn't involved.

The fact she said the caps would win the cup with Richards says all you need to know.

I don't know why I even try. You know Philly fans accuse me of having a crush on Carter because I defend him? You know I would choose Carter over the likes of Ovechkin too but I bet you that wouldn't go over well on the main board either. While the 'blind Richards fans' keep coming up with facts, stats and quotes from actual hockey players, coaches, and personnel about Richards, you two keep parrotting the same stuff about scoring more goals and about us just being biased, crushing on him. In fact, there are lifetime Kings fans who are coming in the thread and saying they would choose Mike too, but you have chosen to ignore that.

If you are going to act like I'm some idiot fangirl who is blindly in love with Mike instead of actually looking at the points and facts I've pointed out then I'll call this discussion over and leave. At this point, it's like trying to tell Flyers fans that they made a mistake with Carter and he's not an unclutch, loafing bum. No matter how many facts I give, they are going to believe what they want.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I don't know why I even try. You know Philly fans accuse me of having a crush on Carter because I defend him? You know I would choose Carter over the likes of Ovechkin too but I bet you that wouldn't go over well on the main board either. While the 'blind Richards fans' keep coming up with facts, stats and quotes from actual hockey players, coaches, and personnel about Richards, you two keep parrotting the same stuff about scoring more goals and about us just being biased, crushing on him. In fact, there are lifetime Kings fans who are coming in the thread and saying they would choose Mike too, but you have chosen to ignore that.

If you are going to act like I'm some idiot fangirl who is blindly in love with Mike instead of actually looking at the points and facts I've pointed out then I'll call this discussion over and leave. At this point, it's like trying to tell Flyers fans that they made a mistake with Carter and he's not an unclutch, loafing bum. No matter how many facts I give, they are going to believe what they want.

Honestly im not going to offend you but I think you should call this discussion over, because you aren't really providing any facts. Saying Richards is a leader and he will win on the caps is just hearsay.
Again, there's a reason why almost everyone would disagree with you on the main boards. The kings needs scoring right? I rest my case. Because the bottom line is that this team needs scoring, and that this team has a lot of leadership.

 

[Winger23]

Most of these guys are former Flyers fans. They think Richards is the captain or something. They seem to forget the kings have a lot of leaders besides Richards. Most of these people just have a crush on Richards. Any other unbiased person would Choose Ovi over Richards if cap wasn't involved.

The fact she said the caps would win the cup with Richards says all you need to know.

The fact that the Kings won the cup WITH Richards says all you need to know as well. Who cares who people would choose if there was no cap. If there were no cap we wouldn't be stuck with our crappy left wings to begin with.

Sincerely - Not ever a philly fan.

 

[jml87]

Really? Do you even watch the caps play? Ovi back checks a lot for a WINGER. Richards can be great for a young team with no leadership. We have a ton of that outside Richards. I bet if you asked Lombardi he'd take Ovi in a heart beat. You have to have the perfect mix of leadership and goal scoring. We have a lot of leadership, but not a potent offense. The kings would be better off with Ovi instead of Richards. Plus if we are gonna talk about back checking, I'm sure you're just talking about the Ovi gif, Crosby got smoked in the Boston Series and gave up a ton on plays and he's a center. It happens. Ovechkin would be an improvement, because what Richards brings, we already have. We have a great core, with out Richards as well. Adding a generational goal scorer over a great leader for the kings would be an improvement. Richards isn't even the captain, and Kopitar is a great leader. Along with Quick.

Then why were the Kings first round exits until the acquisition of Richards? If they had all the leadership they needed why didn't they win in 2011? Why have the kings been in two conference finals in the past two years and have a stanley cup if they are so desperate for goal scoring? If they were still losing I'd say yes, no point in keeping Richards over a guy like Ovechkin. But they are winning more in the playoffs than they have since Gretzky. And yeah, that's cause of the work of Kopi, Brown, Quick, Williams, Doughty, etc., but to see the dramatic change from first round exits one year, to perennial contenders the next year and say it could've been any top player and the results would've been the same is video game logic. The fact is that Lombardi traded for Richards first over Carter. Why is that if Carter is the better goal scorer? And why would you think that Lombardi would suddenly change that whole philosophy and instead of simply going with what won him a Stanley Cup, go instead with a guy who is more about scoring goals?

Tell me why Ovechkin has never gotten out of the second round with 1st overall teams while Richards took teams in Philly less talented consistently farther?

 

[HYORI 1963]

Then why were the Kings first round exits until the acquisition of Richards?

Because Terry Murray was our coach until Sutter finally took over.

And the acquisitions of not only Richards but Carter and Mitchell. Also the promotions of Voynov, Nolan and King. And let's not forget, our mvp, Quick finally establishing himself as one of the very best. So, like I said, Richards is a very good player but he isn't the main reason that we won the cup. Far from it.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Then why were the Kings first round exits until the acquisition of Richards? If they had all the leadership they needed why didn't they win in 2011? Why have the kings been in two conference finals in the past two years and have a stanley cup if they are so desperate for goal scoring? If they were still losing I'd say yes, no point in keeping Richards over a guy like Ovechkin. But they are winning more in the playoffs than they have since Gretzky. And yeah, that's cause of the work of Kopi, Brown, Quick, Williams, Doughty, etc., but to see the dramatic change from first round exits one year, to perennial contenders the next year and say it could've been any top player and the results would've been the same is video game logic. The fact is that Lombardi traded for Richards first over Carter. Why is that if Carter is the better goal scorer? And why would you think that Lombardi would suddenly change that whole philosophy and instead of simply going with what won him a Stanley Cup, go instead with a guy who is more about scoring goals?

Tell me why Ovechkin has never gotten out of the second round with 1st overall teams while Richards took teams in Philly less talented consistently farther?

The Kings were just young, they made the playoffs in almost a decade. They had no leadership. Like most young players they mature. No one was expecting them to win the cup the first two years. Kopitar was injured the year before. And the kings lost to the best team their first year. Let's be realistic. I've watched this core grow up. Richards has helped but he wasn't the catalyst. Kopitar grew up Doughty grew up, Brown grew up. I watched the kings before the Richards trade, so please don't try to feed me that nonsense . And as black just said, Terry Murray.

 

[NikF]

The Kings were just young, they made the playoffs in almost a decade. They had no leadership. Like most young players they mature. No one was expecting them to win the cup the first two years. Kopitar was injured the year before. And the kings lost to the best team their first year. Let's be realistic. I've watched this core grow up. Richards has helped but he wasn't the catalyst. Kopitar grew up Doughty grew up, Brown grew up. I watched the kings before the Richards trade, so please don't try to feed me that nonsense . And as black just said, Terry Murray.

Richards was the catalyst for the Vancouver series. And Ovechkin will win dick in this league as long as HE's the main catalyst for his team and has that fat contract around his neck. Go and look up just how historically important flashy goal scoring wingers are. They aren't. There's no need for the Kings to do anything.

 

[Winger23]

Then why were the Kings first round exits until the acquisition of Richards? If they had all the leadership they needed why didn't they win in 2011? Why have the kings been in two conference finals in the past two years and have a stanley cup if they are so desperate for goal scoring? If they were still losing I'd say yes, no point in keeping Richards over a guy like Ovechkin. But they are winning more in the playoffs than they have since Gretzky. And yeah, that's cause of the work of Kopi, Brown, Quick, Williams, Doughty, etc., but to see the dramatic change from first round exits one year, to perennial contenders the next year and say it could've been any top player and the results would've been the same is video game logic. The fact is that Lombardi traded for Richards first over Carter. Why is that if Carter is the better goal scorer? And why would you think that Lombardi would suddenly change that whole philosophy and instead of simply going with what won him a Stanley Cup, go instead with a guy who is more about scoring goals?

Tell me why Ovechkin has never gotten out of the second round with 1st overall teams while Richards took teams in Philly less talented consistently farther?

So the only point in taking Ovechkin over Richards is for scoring right?

Career playoff points:

Ovechkin 58g 31g 30a 61 points (1.05 avg points per game, .53 goals a game)

Richards 98g 23g 54a 77 points (.78 avg points per game, .24 goals a game)

I don't think there's any doubts that Richards is more well rounded than Ovechkin. Is having an extra .27 points per game, or .29 goals a game that much more valuable come playoffs time? I'd rather take the guy that does it all in Richards any day of the week.

 

[jml87]

Because Terry Murray was our coach.

And the acquisitions of not only Richards but Carter and Mitchell but also the promotions of Voynov, Nolan and King. And let's not forget, our mvp, Quick finally establishing himself as one of the very best. So, like I said, Richards is a very good player but he isn't the main reason that we won the cup. Far from it.

I never said he was the main reason, but I said that the Kings wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup without Mike. Who else sets the tone in game 1? The Kings top guys outside of Carter and Richards were inexperienced in the playoffs. Once someone started things up and showed them **** all the experts and the past, this is a Stanley Cup team, that's when the rest of the team stepped up and made it happen.

I don't think they win without Kopi, Quick, Carter, Doughty, Brown either, which why I wouldn't jump out and replace them with any other player who is statistically better than them. I certainly wouldn't replace the guy who was at the top in points last year in the playoffs, only one point behind Voynov and Carter despite playing in three less games.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I never said he was the main reason, but I said that the Kings wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup without Mike. Who else sets the tone in game 1? The Kings top guys outside of Carter and Richards were inexperienced in the playoffs. Once someone started things up and showed them **** all the experts and the past, this is a Stanley Cup team, that's when the rest of the team stepped up and made it happen.

I don't think they win without Kopi, Quick, Carter, Doughty, Brown either, which why I wouldn't jump out and replace them with any other player who is statistically better than them. I certainly wouldn't replace the guy who was at the top in points last year in the playoffs, only one point behind Voynov and Carter despite playing in three less games.

Actually, Sutter was the main reason we won the cup that year. The same team with MR, under Murray probably would have missed the playoffs. You'd know this if you were here back then.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Richards was the catalyst for the Vancouver series. And Ovechkin will win dick in this league as long as HE's the main catalyst for his team and has that fat contract around his neck. Go and look up just how historically important flashy goal scoring wingers are. They aren't. There's no need for the Kings to do anything.

Who else in the team has leadership quality on the caps. Please enlighten me. We are spoiled with great leadership on the kings. No one is saying we should trade him, my point is Ovechkin is what the kings need right now and not Richards. Because Ovechkin will give what we need, and what Richards brings we already have.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Then why were the Kings first round exits until the acquisition of Richards? If they had all the leadership they needed why didn't they win in 2011? Why have the kings been in two conference finals in the past two years and have a stanley cup if they are so desperate for goal scoring? If they were still losing I'd say yes, no point in keeping Richards over a guy like Ovechkin. But they are winning more in the playoffs than they have since Gretzky. And yeah, that's cause of the work of Kopi, Brown, Quick, Williams, Doughty, etc., but to see the dramatic change from first round exits one year, to perennial contenders the next year and say it could've been any top player and the results would've been the same is video game logic. The fact is that Lombardi traded for Richards first over Carter. Why is that if Carter is the better goal scorer? And why would you think that Lombardi would suddenly change that whole philosophy and instead of simply going with what won him a Stanley Cup, go instead with a guy who is more about scoring goals?

Tell me why Ovechkin has never gotten out of the second round with 1st overall teams while Richards took teams in Philly less talented consistently farther?

You are obsessed with goal scoring. The Kings do not have a Stanley Cup and do not get to the WCF last year without Richards. Explain to me why ovechkin has never made it past the second round of the playoffs if goal scoring and snipers are the end all be all.

I never said he was the main reason, but I said that the Kings wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup without Mike. Who else sets the tone in game 1? The Kings top guys outside of Carter and Richards were inexperienced in the playoffs. Once someone started things up and showed them **** all the experts and the past, this is a Stanley Cup team, that's when the rest of the team stepped up and made it happen.

I don't think they win without Kopi, Quick, Carter, Doughty, Brown either, which why I wouldn't jump out and replace them with any other player who is statistically better than them. I certainly wouldn't replace the guy who was at the top in points last year in the playoffs, only one point behind Voynov and Carter despite playing in three less games.

You can't be serious.

 

[jml87]

The Kings were just young, they made the playoffs in almost a decade. They had no leadership. Like most young players they mature. No one was expecting them to win the cup the first two years. Kopitar was injured the year before. And the kings lost to the best team their first year. Let's be realistic. I've watched this core grow up. Richards has helped but he wasn't the catalyst. Kopitar grew up Doughty grew up, Brown grew up. I watched the kings before the Richards trade, so please don't try to feed me that nonsense . And as black just said, Terry Murray.

So one year Doughty, Kopi, and Brown weren't leaders but the next year they were? That doesn't make sense. You don't just learn how to be a leader. There isn't a training camp you can go to. You can gain more experience, you can gradually become a better leader over many years, but you don't just reach leadership enlightenment over one year.

Did Kopi, Brown, and Doughty forget how to be leaders when they were absent in the playoffs last year? And will you please knock it off with the 'I've been a lifetime Kings fan, so I obviously know more about them than you'. Yeah, I originally started following the Kings cause of Mike but I wouldn't have completely stopped being a Flyers fan and became a Kings fan if I didn't believe in what I saw. I am just as big a fan of Kopi, Brown, Doughty as you are. It's Quick, not Richards who is my favorite player (Although it is very close, I love goalies). That goes for Dee and Woof too. We follow this team as closely as you do. I stay up every night til 1AM so I can watch Kings games and I know who's at the top and who's in the minors. I don't know what I have to do in order to be allowed to have an opinion on these guys. Maybe in twenty years, people will stop calling me a Richards groupie or a traitor and I can just be a damn Kings fan.

 

[jml87]

You can't be serious.

Read my post. I said that they don't win without Kopi, Brown, Doughty, Quick either. You replace other guys and I don't believe they win either.

Secondly, if you are going to argue with me that they would've won without Richards, would they have won without Carter? If we switch Carter and Ovechkin, do we win the Stanley Cup? I don't believe we do.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

So one year Doughty, Kopi, and Brown weren't leaders but the next year they were? That doesn't make sense. You don't just learn how to be a leader. There isn't a training camp you can go to. You can gain more experience, you can gradually become a better leader over many years, but you don't just reach leadership enlightenment over one year.

Did Kopi, Brown, and Doughty forget how to be leaders when they were absent in the playoffs last year? And will you please knock it off with the 'I've been a lifetime Kings fan, so I obviously know more about them than you'. Yeah, I originally started following the Kings cause of Mike but I wouldn't have completely stopped being a Flyers fan and became a Kings fan if I didn't believe in what I saw. I am just as big a fan of Kopi, Brown, Doughty as you are. It's Quick, not Richards who is my favorite player (Although it is very close, I love goalies). That goes for Dee and Woof too. We follow this team as closely as you do. I stay up every night til 1AM so I can watch Kings games and I know who's at the top and who's in the minors. I don't know what I have to do in order to be allowed to have an opinion on these guys. Maybe in twenty years, people will stop calling me a Richards groupie or a traitor and I can just be a damn Kings fan.

Which is why your analysis of the kings situation and what happened before it is invalid. It's maturity, and maturity coincides with leadership. I never said that Richards never helped the kings. He probably helped the team develop better leadership. But the same could be said with Greene, Stoll, Willie. They are leaders as well.

But what you're not understanding is that Richards is not needed any more. What is needed now is goal scoring, Richards leaving doesn't leave a hole in leadership. We have a lot of leaders now, we don't need him. We need goal scoring.

 

[Telos]

Richards not needed? Pfft. He's been one of the most important players on the team this year and has probably been our #1 leader thus far as well. Whenever we get in a jam, Richards is the one that steps up and puts the team on his back. You're undervaluing him. Our special teams would go to hell without him or Kopitar. We'd lose quite a bit looking to force goalscoring.

I wouldn't take this argument too seriously jml87, KingKopitar11 would trade all of our centers for goal scoring wingers if he could

 

[jml87]

Which is why your analysis of the kings situation and what happened before it is invalid. It's maturity, and maturity coincides with leadership. I never said that Richards never helped the kings. He probably helped the team develop better leadership. But the same could be said with Greene, Stoll, Willie. They are leaders as well.

But what you're not understanding is that Richards is not needed any more. What is needed now is goal scoring, Richards leaving doesn't leave a hole in leadership. We have a lot of leaders now, we don't need him. We need goal scoring.

Alright, if that's what you believe, then it's obvious that you don't respect my opinion. I will leave it to other lifelong Kings fans to continue a discussion with you and maybe in twenty years I can actually contribute my opinion.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

But what you're not understanding is that Richards is not needed any more. What is needed now is goal scoring, Richards leaving doesn't leave a hole in leadership. We have a lot of leaders now, we don't need him. We need goal scoring.

Stop, seriously, this right here is embarrassing

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Alright, if that's what you believe, then it's obvious that you don't respect my opinion. I will leave it to other lifelong Kings fans to continue a discussion with you and maybe in twenty years I can actually contribute my opinion.

It's more than that. But alright.