GDT: New Jersey Devils vs. Boston Bruins: Preseason Finale, The Zacha Bowl

[glenwo2]

Blackwood wasn't good in the Isles game but he was also hung out to dry behind a shit team. If the roles were reversed and Vanecek played that game we'd be having the opposite conversation about Blackwood being clearly ahead. At this point no one has established themselves and they should still be splitting for a while to really figure out how things go.

I'd probably lean Vanecek for the Flyers but Blackwood looked fine as well besides that Islanders game on Thursday. Loved what I saw from the top 6 tonight. Mercer possibly being a bottom 6 player is absolutely absurd.

Goal 2 on Blackwood was terrible garbage in that game. It led to a 2 minute Bleedred-like commentary from Butch Goring on how you need a save and Devils goaltending the last two years is a shit show. Normally Butch is going on about how great the Islanders are.

I thought the fifth goal in that game sucked too.

I don’t agree. The only goal I can remember Vanecek allowing that I didn’t like was the first goal he allowed in the first Islanders game. I think it was his first preseason game. It wasn’t really a bad goal, but it was one I thought he could have had.

There was a post hit in I think the last Boston game where he was beaten short side on a bad angle, but that was it.

.928% to .905%.

And then you have the last two seasons which is .908% to .898%.

And that even includes Blackwood’s first 5 games of 20-21 before he fell off the rails.

and yet "Blackwood looked fine".

Yeah...as fine as a stomach pump.

 

[glenwo2]

Devils: 2.29 xGF (4 G, 1 EN), 2.73 xGA (3 GA)

Goalies:

Mac: 1.53 xGA (1 GA)
Vtec: 1.21 xGA (2 GA)

Overall, pretty good game by our goalies! Encouraging to say the least.

Overall, pretty good game by our goalie (singular) Vtec.

Mac looked pretty much the same (which isn't encouraging).

He still fought the puck and still gave up goals he could've and should've had.


Vtec made saves that you expect a Starting Goaltender to make and from what I saw he does not give up softies like Mac.

That is why I feel waaaaaaaaay more confident with him in goal then Blackwood and I actually believe the Devils actually HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN A FRIGGIN' GAME with him(Vtec) between the pipes.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

No no, I'm just joking cause someone was putting Yegor on 4th line on line speculations and I live for the hot takes and the memes these boards create.

Same with the Nico 3C thing.

In a dream world would be great to have Nico as 3C but he is already capable of 2C minutes. If he just could find a way to pick up his offensive production, i'd be more comfortable with labelling him 2C. Nico's defensive traits already make him an excellent 3C but we've got Haula for that and need Nico to finally make the step into becoming a big gun, a dominating player.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I officially soured on Mack when I went to a game the rock last year. His body language was completely pathetic, looked like he didn’t want to even be there. He gave up a bunch of stinkers and got pulled. The worst goalie performance I’ve ever seen in person.

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

I find Sharangovich to be a very special player. He possesses a wicked effortless wrist shot that noticeabley finds the back of the next. Often great 1st lines have a mixture of uniqueness like a playmaker, a power forward and a shooter. Sharangovich is no Bobby Holik but he might surprise us. He just turned 24 years old.

Hah, thanks for thr Holik note, even if it were sarcasm

I do agree with you and many others that Shara does have a good shot and whatnot. I do hope he finds even steadier scoring touch and starts burying (and creating) his chances. Just wouldnt build too much on him from managerial perspective, and this something nobody has suggested here that we should do.

 

[Hisch13r]

and yet "Blackwood looked fine".

Yeah...as fine as a stomach pump.

This is stupid. Isles game was bad. Other 3 games were great.

 

[glenwo2]

Blackwood did look a bit shaky in the first, letting up rebounds on soft shots from far out. But I thought he settled in and don't blame the goal he let up on him, though many on here do. Vanecek looked good yesterday too, one of the goals he didn't really have a chance on and the other probably could've been saved but Boston had a lot of pressure up to that point.

My theory is that a lot of people are just tired of Blackwood and want a change. So every small thing that could be looked at as a mistake is critiqued hard. Whereas Vanecek has way more leeway. I think if Vanecek lets in that first goal there aren't as many people complaining.

I think it depends on if the goal is a softie or not.

If it is, then you're right but from what I saw last night, there were no softies he gave up.

And the goal you said that Boston had a lot of pressure on was, I think, the Slapshot from Pasta(I think?) which looked pretty wicked and I couldn't really blame him that he couldn't save that one as the shot was a rifle.

 

[Bleedred]

and yet "Blackwood looked fine".

Yeah...as fine as a stomach pump.

Okay, I'm gonna explain this again, because it's been about two months or so, maybe three since the last time I really went over it.

Goalies are overrated. They're overrated by the media, they're overrated by fans, they're overrated by front offices. And their reputations take a very LONG time to expire.

This is why Craig Anderson is the only player in his 40's that's probably gonna play in the league this year. Craig Anderson, a BAD, washed up goalie that's been TERRIBLE for 5 years now, not one good season in 5 years, other than one where he played 5 games and only 3 starts between regular season and playoffs, he's (probably and as of right now) the only player in the league this year that will be in their 40's.

There's a treasure trove of BAD GOALIES currently under contract in the NHL. You see A LOT more HAS-BEEN goalies getting signed than you do has-been forwards or even has-been defensemen. Martin Jones still gets jobs in the NHL. Brian Elliott still gets jobs in the NHL. Korpisalo (I know it's just from the same team) still gets jobs in the NHL. Thomas Greiss is 36 and had an abysmal season last year, yet he got signed. Mikko Koskinen probably could have gotten another NHL deal if he actually waited around to become a free agent before he signed in Europe before the Oilers season and playoffs even ended. John Gibson was just voted 11th best goalie in the league on the main board, despite no good seasons the last 3 years. It's the fans and media alike.

When a goalie has a good game or even a good save, it gets talked about A LOT in the post game, during the game, on NHLN after the game. When a goalie has just an average season, it's exaggerated a lot of times as a ''Good'' or even ''Great'' season. By both fans and the media alike. Speaking of Koskinen, this happened with him a lot. There was a lot of noise made when he had a good game last year.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a goalie that is not even average or barely average get called by one of the media pundits as a ''Good goalie''. ''Oh, he's a good goalie''.

As far as Blackwood goes, the church of Blackwood has lost quite a few members and continues to. Believe me, the parking lot was not this full for Sunday mass this morning. But there's still people who downplay his poor play and there's probably as many complaints about Michael McLeod, Geertsen (deservedly so for him, I'm one of them, but I'm just saying), Zacha, Ty Smith (last year), the new Smith, JOHNSSON! I mean, Blackwood is a BIGGER PROBLEM than any of these players were the last two years. He plays a much more important position than any of these other guys and he's the cost the team more points than any of those guys have over the last two years.

So, this is why he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt right now. And to be honest, calling it how I see it, Blackwood's first two years in the NHL were solid, but they weren't great, they weren't amazing. They were certainly better than Cory Schneider's last 4 years here, they were certainly better than Keith Kinkaid's best season here, but they weren't great. In fact, he has a NEGATIVE goals saved above expected even in his first two years here. Not by much, only -0.43 in his first year, -0.53 in his second year. Unfortunately, Vanecek also has a -5 or -6 in his first two years in the league, though still considerably better than Blackwood's and his were only -15 (and not league worst) because he only played 25 games last year and not 40-something.

In closing, goalies are overrated. Goalies get much of the blame when a team underwhelms or underperforms, can't win in the playoffs, etc? Certainly. But they're also given a HUGE pass and a HUGE benefit of the doubt just as much.

 

[Guttersniped]

I don't see how we make the roster space work without it, unless Nico really did break his leg and have to be shot.

I always thought of Nico as a glue guy.

 

[Bleedred]

I officially soured on Mack when I went to a game the rock last year. His body language was completely pathetic, looked like he didn’t want to even be there. He gave up a bunch of stinkers and got pulled. The worst goalie performance I’ve ever seen in person.

I wish I could actually guess what game this was last year, but unfortunately there were a few too many of these that I can't quite pinpoint it.

I'm gonna say it was either the Arizona game (I don't think he got pulled in that one). The Detroit game in the season finale was PATHETIC, but he didn't get pulled in that one. Literally 3 of the 4 goals against were bad. They kept taking the lead, we kept tying it, he kept giving them one back and it was too late in the game to keep tying it by that point.

I think the horrible game against the Flyers was in Philly. I think he did get pulled in that one.

His game against the Panthers that I went to was also really bad. He got pulled halfway through regulation. He started out the game in Tampa pretty bad with two weak, leaky goals early on, but rebounded to have one of his best games of the season.

 

[devilsblood]

I thought my joke was pretty funny.

I officially soured on Mack when I went to a game the rock last year. His body language was completely pathetic, looked like he didn’t want to even be there. He gave up a bunch of stinkers and got pulled. The worst goalie performance I’ve ever seen in person.

An injured goalie playing because we have no other option, and playing poorly because of that, is very likely to exhibit poor body language.

 

[Guadana]

Does this mean we're waiving Geertsen?

NO, Fitz, NO!!!! PLEASE!! We should waive Zetterlund! Boqvist at least!

 

[glenwo2]

This is stupid. Isles game was bad. Other 3 games were great.

But his entire body of work the past several seasons is bad and had been bad and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to be bad going forward.

I have zero confidence that Mac will all of a sudden turn into the goaltender he was when the Devils first acquired him.

He is, for all intents and purposes, shot as a Starting Goaltender in this league.

 

[Bleedred]

I also would like to give a full disclaimer that I’m not anti-goalie position. I don’t not respect the position. I just think they get overrated by fans and media alike. I’ve given so many examples of why. It is the most important position in the game and a bad one (like Blackwood, as well as the last several years of Schneider and Brodeur and the last year of Kinkaid and Hedberg) will cost you tons of points. Much more than Johnsson, much more than McLeod, even much more than Geertsen and the goons.

I’ve been touting Shesterkin for years before he came into the league. I’ve been the first Devils fan to rush to the defense of Henrik Lundqvist and I believe he belongs in the HOF in his first year eligible.

I’m also the biggest Devils fan of Mike Richter there ever was.

I’m not anti-goalie, but I’m unapologetically and vehemently anti-BAD goalie. Especially when they’re flushing my team’s points down the shitter and we gave them too much time/too many years to try to get it together. We did that with twilight Schneider, we absolutely did it in the last year of Brodeur and if the Blackwood is bad this season and that experiment goes beyond this season, it’ll be yet again same shit.

 

[Guadana]

In a dream world would be great to have Nico as 3C but he is already capable of 2C minutes. If he just could find a way to pick up his offensive production, i'd be more comfortable with labelling him 2C. Nico's defensive traits already make him an excellent 3C but we've got Haula for that and need Nico to finally make the step into becoming a big gun, a dominating player.

whadaf?.. Ok, we understood your Sharangovich positiion. Dream world, where in the real one even teams like Avelanche, Bruins, Pens, Caps, freakin Bolts etc don`t have six 24-goals scorers, magic land, we sleep and see, but Hischier? Seriously? He produced 60 points in 70 games. What you are actually waiting from second center? Malkin\Forsberg\Fedorov level?

 

[Guttersniped]

Okay, I'm gonna explain this again, because it's been about two months or so, maybe three since the last time I really went over it.

Goalies are overrated. They're overrated by the media, they're overrated by fans, they're overrated by front offices. And their reputations take a very LONG time to expire.

This is why Craig Anderson is the only player in his 40's that's probably gonna play in the league this year. Craig Anderson, a BAD, washed up goalie that's been TERRIBLE for 5 years now, not one good season in 5 years, other than one where he played 5 games and only 3 starts between regular season and playoffs, he's (probably and as of right now) the only player in the league this year that will be in their 40's.

There's a treasure trove of BAD GOALIES currently under contract in the NHL. You see A LOT more HAS-BEEN goalies getting signed than you do has-been forwards or even has-been defensemen. Martin Jones still gets jobs in the NHL. Brian Elliott still gets jobs in the NHL. Korpisalo (I know it's just from the same team) still gets jobs in the NHL. Thomas Greiss is 36 and had an abysmal season last year, yet he got signed. Mikko Koskinen probably could have gotten another NHL deal if he actually waited around to become a free agent before he signed in Europe before the Oilers season and playoffs even ended. John Gibson was just voted 11th best goalie in the league on the main board, despite no good seasons the last 3 years. It's the fans and media alike.

When a goalie has a good game or even a good save, it gets talked about A LOT in the post game, during the game, on NHLN after the game. When a goalie has just an average season, it's exaggerated a lot of times as a ''Good'' or even ''Great'' season. By both fans and the media alike. Speaking of Koskinen, this happened with him a lot. There was a lot of noise made when he had a good game last year.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a goalie that is not even average or barely average get called by one of the media pundits as a ''Good goalie''. ''Oh, he's a good goalie''.

As far as Blackwood goes, the church of Blackwood has lost quite a few members and continues to. Believe me, the parking lot was not this full for Sunday mass this morning. But there's still people who downplay his poor play and there's probably as many complaints about Michael McLeod, Geertsen (deservedly so for him, I'm one of them, but I'm just saying), Zacha, Ty Smith (last year), the new Smith, JOHNSSON! I mean, Blackwood is a BIGGER PROBLEM than any of these players were the last two years. He plays a much more important position than any of these other guys and he's the cost the team more points than any of those guys have over the last two years.

So, this is why he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt right now. And to be honest, calling it how I see it, Blackwood's first two years in the NHL were solid, but they weren't great, they weren't amazing. They were certainly better than Cory Schneider's last 4 years here, they were certainly better than Keith Kinkaid's best season here, but they weren't great. In fact, he has a NEGATIVE goals saved above expected even in his first two years here. Not by much, only -0.43 in his first year, -0.53 in his second year. Unfortunately, Vanecek also has a -5 or -6 in his first two years in the league, though still considerably better than Blackwood's and his were only -15 (and not league worst) because he only played 25 games last year and not 40-something.

In closing, goalies are overrated. Goalies get much of the blame when a team underwhelms or underperforms, can't win in the playoffs, etc? Certainly. But they're also given a HUGE pass and a HUGE benefit of the doubt just as much.

You really lose me when you interject whatever you fantasize to be team management and outsider enthusiasm for goalies into your analysis.

I also generally hate the word “overrated” when people use it like it really matters a lot. Who cares what you think some subsection of people think? It doesn’t effect the play on the ice.

Craig Anderson isn’t “overrated”. Martin Jones isn’t either. They’re just not good.

What goalies are teams supposed to use? Is their a NHL goalie store? There’s a very limited amount of guys who can play the position at this high level. They also have to be signed by a team and at times goalies can’t be sent up/down due to waivers, cap, roster size etc.

Some teams make bad choices but some also simply get stuck with the dregs that are left on the market. (Tanking/Rebuilding teams obviously don’t mind as much.)

You’ll see teams try to carry 3 healthy goalies on a roster and that always lasts about 3 seconds until injuries to skaters start to hit.

Example: In 2020-21 Toronto was going to carry 3 goalies to keep Dell around. They had to waive him, and we claimed him, after 4 games into their season due to skater injuries. He never played even played a game for them.

Fringy goalies are around particularly because the league expanded while COVID really whacked goalie development in the lower levels and other leagues (and this one too). And fringy guys are always around. Is every team supposed to have 1-2 excellent NHL goalies every season? Are there +32 great NHL goalies in the league or something and teams simply forget to have them in the net?

Blackwood had a really up and down career as a prospect and many posters soured on him then.

He played great early on in the NHL and people got excited. (Yes, he was pretty darn great. Sorry, that happened.)

He’s since struggling with a number of injuries and adversity, he’s had two brutal seasons in a row, and people are not so excited about him anymore anymore. (Including Fitz.)

We’re stuck with his ass for at least another season and therefore also stuck with your rants about the guy. Yes, people are hoping he will stay healthy and do better.

That’s a reasonable hope since healthy players play better than gimpy ones and Blackwood, for sure, has played while not healthy a lot lately. Reasonable hope is a reasonable fan position and I will stick with that.

This isn’t complicated.

Your paranoia that he will play more than Vanecek even if he’s worse is paranoia, I don’t see it. Ruff needs wins, he’s not going to placate anyone.

Blackwood could start against the Flyers because they’re f***ing terrible, he’s done great against them in the past and it’s not our home opener.

Again, it’s about getting the most wins and Vanacek has only had two seasons in NHL, so you can’t plan on him getting a Hellebuyck/Vasi-type starter number of games even if you think Blackwood is garbage (and will tell us all again about why).

We got seemingly two healthy NHL starters going into the season so we are way ahead of where we were in the last two seasons. Sorry if I can’t shit on Blackwood enough for you but I feel like you have that covered.

 

[Devs3cups]

whadaf?.. Ok, we understood your Sharangovich positiion. Dream world, where in the real one even teams like Avelanche, Bruins, Pens, Caps, freakin Bolts etc don`t have six 24-goals scorers, magic land, we sleep and see, but Hischier? Seriously? He produced 60 points in 70 games. What you are actually waiting from second center? Malkin\Forsberg\Fedorov level?

Agreed. 60 points in 70 games is definitely 2C production. That’s without taking into account that Nico plays difficult matchups, PK and PP.

Nico is a great 2C imho.

 

[Guttersniped]

whadaf?.. Ok, we understood your Sharangovich positiion. Dream world, where in the real one even teams like Avelanche, Bruins, Pens, Caps, freakin Bolts etc don`t have six 24-goals scorers, magic land, we sleep and see, but Hischier? Seriously? He produced 60 points in 70 games. What you are actually waiting from second center? Malkin\Forsberg\Fedorov level?

Nico also played incredibly tough minutes while Mercer was sheltered and Mikey was eventually demoted to a more strictly 4C role against lesser competition. Hell, Boqvist started getting some tougher assignments.

It’s not just about production (and our players’ production was hindered by a dog shit PP too.)

NO, Fitz, NO!!!! PLEASE!! We should waive Zetterlund! Boqvist at least!

 

[Guttersniped]

I also would like to give a full disclaimer that I’m not anti-goalie position. I don’t not respect the position. I just think they get overrated by fans and media alike. I’ve given so many examples of why. It is the most important position in the game and a bad one (like Blackwood, as well as the last several years of Schneider and Brodeur and the last year of Kinkaid and Hedberg) will cost you tons of points. Much more than Johnsson, much more than McLeod, even much more than Geertsen and the goons.

I’ve been touting Shesterkin for years before he came into the league. I’ve been the first Devils fan to rush to the defense of Henrik Lundqvist and I believe he belongs in the HOF in his first year eligible.

I’m also the biggest Devils fan of Mike Richter there ever was.

I’m not anti-goalie, but I’m unapologetically and vehemently anti-BAD goalie. Especially when they’re flushing my team’s points down the shitter and we gave them too much time/too many years to try to get it together. We did that with twilight Schneider, we absolutely did it in the last year of Brodeur and if the Blackwood is bad this season and that experiment goes beyond this season, it’ll be yet again same shit.

“I’m not anti-goalie, but I’m unapologetically and vehemently anti-BAD goalie.”

We noticed lol

 

[devilsblood]

But his entire body of work the past several seasons is bad and had been bad and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to be bad going forward.

I have zero confidence that Mac will all of a sudden turn into the goaltender he was when the Devils first acquired him.

He is, for all intents and purposes, shot as a Starting Goaltender in this league.

Shot? He’s 25. This board is effing crazy sometimes.

 

[Guttersniped]

I thought my joke was pretty funny.

I gave it a like and gif! I’ll change the like to laughing one if it will make you feel more appreciated.

 

[devilsblood]

Agreed. 60 points in 70 games is definitely 2C production. That’s without taking into account that Nico plays difficult matchups, PK and PP.

Nico is a great 2C imho.

Nico also started last season slowly, apparently hindered by that rib/side injury.

Similar to Blackwood i think if Nico is healthy he can play well(higher bar for Nico), but both guys need to prove they can put a full season together.

I gave it a like and gif! I’ll change the like to laughing one if it will make you feel more appreciated.

It was the crying kaola that has me feeling insecure.

 

[Guttersniped]

Nico also started last season slowly, apparently hindered by that rib/side injury.

Similar to Blackwood i think if Nico is healthy he can play well(higher bar for Nico), but both guys need to prove they can put a full season together.


It was the crying kaola that has me feeling insecure.

He was crying, while giving you a rim shot, because you shot Nico. (It was a very layered gif reply.)

 

[glenwo2]

Shot? He’s 25. This board is effing crazy sometimes.

And?

He's shown no indications he's going to morph back into what he once was.

If anything, he's gotten worse.

Age makes no difference if you lose the ability to be a competent goaltender.

Now do I want him to be that goaltender again? sure I do but the past several seasons put the kibosh on any hope of that ever happening.

This board may be "effin crazy" but this take of mine isn't.

 

[Guadana]

Agreed. 60 points in 70 games is definitely 2C production. That’s without taking into account that Nico plays difficult matchups, PK and PP.

Nico is a great 2C imho.

Nico also played incredibly tough minutes while Mercer was sheltered and Mikey was eventually demoted to a more strictly 4C role against lesser competition. Hell, Boqvist started getting some tougher assignments.

It’s not just about production (and our players’ production was hindered by a dog shit PP too.)

Yeah. Tough minutes, good production. Lack of pp points. In cap area. Clearly don't know what we should wait? Would be great if he can produce more, but really. We should have a line where we can accept player game.