NBA Equivalents To NHL Players

[vadim sharifijanov]

also, someone in the pre-merger project compared nighbor to the great bill russell and that to me feels perfect

 

[LightningStorm]

When learning about Brad Park and all his 2nd place Norris finishes, Karl Malone immediately entered my mind.

Park finished 2nd in the Norris 6 times yet never won it. 4 times behind Orr, the greatest d-man ever, and twice behind Potvin who arguably had the next highest peak at the position. Along those lines, Malone had 5 2nd place finishes in the NBA scoring race, including 4 straight from 1989-1992, as well as his MVP season in 1997. As many of you have probably already guessed if not already know, Jordan was who came in 1st all those seasons.

 

[JackSlater]

When learning about Brad Park and all his 2nd place Norris finishes, Karl Malone immediately entered my mind.

Park finished 2nd in the Norris 6 times yet never won it. 4 times behind Orr, the greatest d-man ever, and twice behind Potvin who arguably had the next highest peak at the position. Along those lines, Malone had 5 2nd place finishes in the NBA scoring race, including 4 straight from 1989-1992, as well as his MVP season in 1997. As many of you have probably already guessed if not already know, Jordan was who come in 1st all those seasons.

I guess you could say that, but Malone has those two ghastly MVP trophies to mitigate his bad luck with scoring titles. There are some similarities between Malone and Dionne, with each being a very prolific scorer, Malone's two MVPs and Dionne's two Pearsons, each being part of a famous combination (Stockton & Malone and Triple Crown) and both regularly being roasted for playoff performances. No perfect comparison though.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I guess you could say that, but Malone has those two ghastly MVP trophies to mitigate his bad luck with scoring titles. There are some similarities between Malone and Dionne, with each being a very prolific scorer, Malone's two MVPs and Dionne's two Pearsons, each being part of a famous combination (Stockton & Malone and Triple Crown) and both regularly being roasted for playoff performances. No perfect comparison though.

but malone went to three finals, back to back ones at his peak, and dionne never even won a best of seven playoff round

how about luongo? like the mailman, all time longevity for his position, peaked as arguably the best (at his position) but you were never 100% convinced, poor playoff rep as you say, made the finals and excelled in home games, crapped the bed on the road.

the difference would be mailman got the two MVPs, which were jokes, while luongo probably deserved but didn’t win two vezinas.


on the other side of that comp, i also think there’s ana alternate universe where t-mac’s health holds up for a long productive career (like his cousin) and he is basketball’s dionne. although tbf i never blamed t-mac for his playoff losses.

 

[JackSlater]

but malone went to three finals, back to back ones at his peak, and dionne never even won a best of seven playoff round

how about luongo? like the mailman, all time longevity for his position, peaked as arguably the best (at his position) but you were never 100% convinced, poor playoff rep as you say, made the finals and excelled in home games, crapped the bed on the road.

the difference would be mailman got the two MVPs, which were jokes, while luongo probably deserved but didn’t win two vezinas.


on the other side of that comp, i also think there’s ana alternate universe where t-mac’s health holds up for a long productive career (like his cousin) and he is basketball’s dionne. although tbf i never blamed t-mac for his playoff losses.

It's hard to compare team results in basketball and hockey. Both guys are among the very best ever who never won a championship, but you're right that Malone certainly came closer. I could classlessly say that there may be similarities between Malone and Gilmour as well. I can't think of an NHL great who had a final season as bizarre as Malone's last year.

Luongo is a good comparison as well, they did both give off a feeling that that guy just isn't going to come through. With Malone it's such a big part of his career that he was in a tandem and that's going to be difficult with any goaltender.

Healthy McGrady is probably a good comparison. He even has Bryant to be his Lafleur figure, if Lafleur himself had been healthier.

 

[Danny46]

Bobby Orr/Dwyane Wade - Both legends despiste careers full of injuries...

 

[JackSlater]

Bobby Orr/Dwyane Wade - Both legends despiste careers full of injuries...

It's hard to do Orr due to health. I think the best comparison is that healthy Orr is Jordan as an incomparable all around player. Think Jordan if he retired in 1992 or so. I know that Jordan has the scoring titles like Gretzky has, but Jordan didn't blow away the field like Gretzky did - that was Chamberlain.

To fudge things a little, consider Orr's rookie year equivalent to Jordan's NCAA years. Then compare Orr's 8 reasonably healthy seasons after his rookie year to Jordan's first 8 seasons. So basically Orr 1968-1975 with Jordan 1985-1992. Two championships, two playoff (final) MVPs. Three league MVPs, each robbed a few times. Six scoring titles for Jordan, six top 2 scoring finishes for Orr. Two Art Rosses for Orr, unprecedented for a defenceman, one Defensive Player of the Year for Jordan, unprecedented for a league scoring leader. One reasonably unhealthy season each. 8 first team all stars for Orr, 6 first team all stars (missed one due to injury) and a second team all star for Jordan. Unprecedented offence from their position, with Orr being the only defenceman to lead the NHL in scoring and Jordan being the first guard (spare me Gervin, he was a SF if he was anything) to lead the NBA in scoring more than once. Both spawned imitators, Orr with puck rushing defencemen who would contend for top ten in scoring and Jordan with high scoring all dominant SGs whom teams would be built around in the 90s and 2000s. I think it's very similar to that point, but obviously their careers diverge massively after that.

 

[Dale53130]

I think there's quite a number of similarities between Karl Malone and Ray Bourque.

They both:

-- maintained a very high level of play forever
-- were perennial All-Stars; almost to the point that you're taking them for granted while it was happening
-- were physically well built; specifically in terms of being able to withstand a lot of body-contact
-- were well conditioned; both had excellent stamina
-- were routinely finishing on 1st and 2nd All Star teams at the end of the year
-- had a number of years where they finished in the Top 10 in MVP/Hart voting
-- left their team to try to win a championship - on a championship caliber team - at the end of their career

You can also add that they both had contemporaries throughout their careers (Barkley, Coffey) who earlier on in their respective careers, probably had the edge on them in terms of the average fans' perspective. I know I mentioned this recently, but that GM's poll at the conclusion of the '84-'85 season, had Coffey as the 2nd player in the league (behind Gretzky) that you'd want to build your team around. Conversely, in the late '80s/early '90s, you'll find that it was Jordan, Magic, and Barkley at the top of the MVP voting at the end of the year.

Bob Pettit was considered the gold standard of PF's (forever), until Barkley and Malone were duking it out, then I think Malone seized that spot because he kept doing what he was always doing; while winning 2 MVPs along the way will help doing that perception-wise. Tim Duncan pretty much took that title (greatest PF) mid-career, and never looked back. I'm pointing this out, in part, because you don't need to see Tim Duncan surpass Malone in career totals and such, to know (very early on) that he was probably the greatest power forward of All Time.

Karl Malone was on the doorstep of passing Kareem in career points, and to my surprise, called it a day. I doubt anyone would have ever said that he was the greatest scorer of All Time; even though technically he would have been.

Malone has always had his detractors in the media, like Bob Ryan, Bill Simmons (probably influenced to some degree by Bob Ryan), probably Peter Vessey, and definitely Charley Rosen (which is in large part Phil Jackson's thoughts on whatever); though I REALLY love Charley Rosen articles. Too much has been made about how he's overrated; which he isn't at this point. If anything, he's become underappreciated to a degree.

I always thought Malone's defense could be overrated, but... I don't remember any other player who could stand his ground against Shaq like Malone could. Shaq could struggle vs Olajuwon (finesse), Sabonis, Smits, but Malone took Shaq off of his comfort spots down low. For all of the overblown talk about how Malone was soft from the likes of Charles Oakley (and others), I've honestly never seen evidence of Malone being soft physically. And I was indifferent about Karl Malone over the length of his career, generally rooting against him over the years, mainly because I preferred the other team.

Frankly, I thought Malone looked better defensively vs Shaq, than how David Robinson and Duncan (combined!) looked; and they were both individually greater defenders than Malone.

To Malone's credit, he did a very good job (IMO) blending in, working next to Shaq. For all of the "he's selfish" talk, I didn't see evidence of that in '03-'04. Between he and Gary Payton - who still seemed to be at/near his prime in '02-'03 - I thought he made the easier transition of the two.

While it's come to the surface that Malone's character isn't all that, I always found it interesting how that immediately after losing to the Bulls in '97 and again in '98, he took post game interviews from Vessey and Jim Gray! He also got on the BULLS' bus to shake their hands. I never heard any complaints about him while he was playing with the Jazz; save for an article or two by Charley Rosen years after the fact.

I think most people thought of Karl Malone as being overrated, because he won those MVPs (same with Steve Nash). Prior to his winning his first one in '97, I thought that he was viewed as being a bit underrated.

Those '97 and '98 Jazz teams, have also become thought of as being "old" (core wise they were) and really not that great when looking back; Bill Simmons leading that charge. I don't think any of the '00 versions of those Spurs' teams that won it all ('03, '05, '07) were any better than those Jazz teams. Really good teams can and will come up short from time to time.

I also wondered if Bourque has become overappreciated over time, by comparison.

As an aside, I wonder if Tim Duncan and Nicklaus Lidstrom - successors to Malone and Bourque - are good comparisons. Same with Bill Russell and Jean Beliveau. Maybe Rick Barry is Guy Lafleur; or the anti-Guy Lafleur (and I love Rick Barry).

I think that Larry Bird is a decent comp to Orr. It would look a lot better as an example if Bird had just retired in '88. Everyone goes on about Bird's lack of athletism (really overblown btw), but he had some massive edges over the field in terms of hand-eye coordination and reflexes; not to mention his ability to break down what's happening and being 2 to 3 steps ahead. If anything, Bird could make the opposition play at his pace. Polar opposites who could make the game bend to the way that they wanted to play.

For my money, Jordan and Bird on the biggest stages, played the game at the highest level.

I was also thinking about if Dale Hawerchuk were an NBA player, where would he rank? I would think he's a Top-90 guy if he were a basketball player, whereas in hockey, I generally don't see him within people's Top-125 (or lower). I'd imagine that he's a bit better than Alex English (better in his own end being the tie breaker), but hockey's VERY deep at the center position, compared to any position in basketball.

The NHL 50 through 100 spots would be significantly stronger than the NBA 50 through 100 spots. Paul Westphal - primarily because his peak was his prime and that didn't last long because of injuries - is generally thought of as a cuspy Top 100 guy, but his equivalent in hockey, I'd imagine, would be someone in the Top 150 to Top 175 range; maybe lower.

 

[Mike C]

Shaq never reached his full potential as a basketball player

He was more focused on making movies and rap music, and less on becoming the best basketball player he could be

As a result, he was overweight throughout his career and often missed games due to injury

He played 20 seasons, yet played only 1207 games

The only time he played more than 80 games in a season were his first 2 years in the league

He played 70+ games in only 7 out of his 20 seasons

In his final 18 seasons, he played in only 70+ games 5 times!


So, yes, his career left a lot to be desired

Had he dedicated himself entirely to basketball, he may very well be in contention with Jordan and LeBron as the greatest ever

As it were, he ended his career with just a single MVP award

I might add that he sucked at free throws which allowed teams to strategize with that in mind

That's my biggest issue with his career. 53 percent lifetime. A little practice would have served him and his teams well

 

[Mike C]

When learning about Brad Park and all his 2nd place Norris finishes, Karl Malone immediately entered my mind.

Park finished 2nd in the Norris 6 times yet never won it. 4 times behind Orr, the greatest d-man ever, and twice behind Potvin who arguably had the next highest peak at the position. Along those lines, Malone had 5 2nd place finishes in the NBA scoring race, including 4 straight from 1989-1992, as well as his MVP season in 1997. As many of you have probably already guessed if not already know, Jordan was who come in 1st all those seasons.

I thought Park/Stockton. Both QB of team, both always 2nd best positionally and both ringless

 

[Mike C]

Jimmy Hayes/Marvin Barnes

 

[JianYang]

Bill laimbeer and Tom Wilson?

 

[Neutrinos]

Bill laimbeer and Tom Wilson?

Laimbeer was a 4x all-star, and a 2x leader in rebounds, so I don't think they were quite in the same tier as one another

When I think of Laimbeer, the NHL equivalent would be someone like Adam Foote

And for Tom Wilson, the NBA equivalent might be Ron Artest

 

[JianYang]

Laimbeer was a 4x all-star, and a 2x leader in rebounds, so I don't think they were quite in the same tier as one another

When I think of Laimbeer, the NHL equivalent would be someone like Adam Foote

And for Tom Wilson, the NBA equivalent might be Ron Artest

I'm just thinking in the sense of that both guys were more than capable of playing on the top line or starting lineup in basketball where there was already a clearly defined superstar (ovechkin/Thomas), and both were/are very controversial in their physical altercations.

I thought of artest as well, but he was a different kind of crazy.

 

[crobro]

Lindros/Chris Weber
Dryden/Russel
Abdul Jabbar/Howe
Jordan/Gretzky

 

[frisco]

Moses Malone = Phil Esposito
Robert Parish = Larry Robinson
Charles Barkley = Brett Hull
Pau Gasol = Geno Malkin
Dan Issel = Bernie Federko
Alex English = Steve Shutt
Elgin Baylor = Bobby Hull
John Havlichek = Bryan Trottier
Bob Cousy = Max Bentley
Walt Frazier = Pavel Bure
Nate Thurmond = Tim Horton
Rick Barry = Marcel Dionne
Carmelo Anthony = Joe Thornton
Bob Pettit = Ted Lindsay
Michael Cooper = Jere Lehtinen
Dennis Johnson = Guy Carbonneau
Gail Goodrich = Theo Fleury
James Worthy = Glenn Anderson
Steve Nash = Dominik Hasek
David Thompson = Denis Savard
Bob McAdoo = Dale Hawerchuk
Adrian Dantley = Dave Andreychuk
Gary Payton = Pavel Datsyuk
John Stockton = Adam Oates
Dave Cowens = Ken Dryden
Mark Aguirre = Bernie Nicholls
Bernard King = Dino Ciccarelli
Ray Allen = Al MacInnis
George Gervin = Peter Stastny
Pete Maravich = Stan Mikita
Tony Parker = Paul Kariya

Don't ask me why. Just playing name association in my head.

My Best-Carey

Adding my rationale:
Moses Malone = Phil Esposito. Big numbers. Garbage collectors supreme.
Robert Parish = Larry Robinson. Trusted lynchpin on great teams.
Charles Barkley = Brett Hull. Stocky, quotable scorers.
Paul Gasol = Geno Malkin. Number two men on mini-dynasties.
Dan Issel = Bernie Federko. Unheralded scorers but never elite or champions.
Alex English = Steve Shutt. See above.
Elgin Baylor = Bobby Hull. Superior and game changing skills throughout the 60's.
John Havlichek = Bryan Trottier. Warriors and leaders on champions.
Bob Cousy = Max Bentley. Old-time magicians.
Walt Frazier = Pavel Bure. Flash and skill galore.
Nate Thurmond = Tim Horton. Rock steady defenders.
Rick Barry = Marcel Dionne. Big-time scorers but somewhat underrated.
Carmelo Anthony = Joe Thornton. Long time point producers who hung around. No championships.
Bob Pettit = Ted Lindsay. Best at their position during that era.
Michael Cooper = Jere Lehtinen. Defensive specialists on high caliber teams.
Dennis Johnson = Guy Carbonneau. See above.
Gail Goodrich = Theo Fleury. Scorers despite size limitations.
James Worthy = Glenn Anderson. Super fast wingmen finishers on dynasties. Never "the" man. I always equate Showtime Lakers to the 80's Oilers.
Steve Nash = Dominik Hasek. Late bloomers with unorthodox styles. Won MVP's.
David Thompson = Denis Savard. Gifted and highly skilled point producers.
Bob McAdoo = Dale Hawerchuk. See above but not as pretty.
Adrian Dantley = Dave Andreychuk. Scorers in the ugliest fashion but you can't argue the numbers.
Gary Payton = Pavel Datsyuk. Two-way forces. Smaller and skilled.
John Stockton = Adam Oates. Lots of assists.
Dave Cowens = Ken Dryden. Didn't play long but always on winners.
Mark Aguirre = Bernie Nicholls. Second tier but produced.
Bernard King = Dino Ciccarelli. See above.
Ray Allen = Al MacInnis. Shooters,
George Gervin = Peter Stastny. Filled it up but never considered the best.
Pete Maravich = Stan Mikita. Smallish, but super effective.
Tony Parker = Paul Kariya. See above. Waterbugs.

My Best-Carey

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

so upthread when i posited mcgrady and mogilny, the corollary that comes out of that is the two guys who they got away from, which coincided with each guy immediately blossoming as a superstar: vince carter and pierre turgeon.

both A offensive talents, but neither ever reaching the highest level of A+ true franchise player on a contender status like, say, AI, kobe, sakic, modano. both made more sense as the top offensive guy on a team pulled by franchise players at other positions QBing (j kidd, pronger/macinnis). both spent their whole careers with the soft label following them around, both were dogged by commitment to the team innuendo (attending his graduation the day before a game 7/not leaving the bench), both asked to leave their teams in ways that made little sense and enraged their fans (raps as the franchise/habs as captain).

both are/will make the hall of fame but belatedly and maybe also begrudgingly by their respective induction committees.

 

[JackSlater]

so upthread when i posited mcgrady and mogilny, the corollary that comes out of that is the two guys who they got away from, which coincided with each guy immediately blossoming as a superstar: vince carter and pierre turgeon.

both A offensive talents, but neither ever reaching the highest level of A+ true franchise player on a contender status like, say, AI, kobe, sakic, modano. both made more sense as the top offensive guy on a team pulled by franchise players at other positions QBing (j kidd, pronger/macinnis). both spent their whole careers with the soft label following them around, both were dogged by commitment to the team innuendo (attending his graduation the day before a game 7/not leaving the bench), both asked to leave their teams in ways that made little sense and enraged their fans (raps as the franchise/habs as captain).

both are/will make the hall of fame but belatedly and maybe also begrudgingly by their respective induction committees.

Oooo I really like that one. Carter had a bit higher stature within his sport but it's a very good comparison.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

some other randoms:

kurri = klay

hasek = harden (flopping)

goring = iguodala

p kane = d wade (except off the court/ice)

chelios = hakeem

langway = zo

bouwmeester = simmons

holik = laimbeer

cujo = reggie (i kinda hate this because i reggie was my fav player but it’s probably true)

draisaitl = dirk

arnott = rasheed (could have been a franchise player but settled into being a very good not truly great x factor/final piece to a powerhouse with occasional beastmode ability)

sedins = nash and amare

 

[The Panther]

I've always thought of Mario Lemieux as the hockey Michael Jordan.

Both started pros in 1984 on clubs at/near the bottom, both became superstars right away but both then faced years of questions about if they were just one man shows on teams they couldn't inspire to championships.

Both won their first championships in 1991 and 1992, both as MVP.

Mario had injuries and more injuries, Michael had injuries and gambling, which respectively kept each out of whole seasons in his prime. (Neither played a single game in the 1994-95 season.)

Hard to compare different sports stylistically, but also I find them close there. Each may have been the most individually talented / impressive player, of their eras if not all time (maybe Michael behind Wilt), though not necessarily the players who helped teammates / coaches the most. In basketball, which is more about individual talent, this worked to Michael's advantage, but in hockey it didn't work to Mario's (after 1992).

As if all that weren't enough, as old, retired guys, both came back to play as (minority) owners / executives of the team each was playing for.

Of course, their personalities couldn't be more different...

 

[JackSlater]

I've always thought of Mario Lemieux as the hockey Michael Jordan.

Both started pros in 1984 on clubs at/near the bottom, both became superstars right away but both then faced years of questions about if they were just one man shows on teams they couldn't inspire to championships.

Both won their first championships in 1991 and 1992, both as MVP.

Mario had injuries and more injuries, Michael had injuries and gambling, which respectively kept each out of whole seasons in his prime. (Neither played a single game in the 1994-95 season.)

Hard to compare different sports stylistically, but also I find them close there. Each may have been the most individually talented / impressive player, of their eras if not all time (maybe Michael behind Wilt), though not necessarily the players who helped teammates / coaches the most. In basketball, which is more about individual talent, this worked to Michael's advantage, but in hockey it didn't work to Mario's (after 1992).

As if all that weren't enough, as old, retired guys, both came back to play as (minority) owners / executives of the team each was playing for.

Of course, their personalities couldn't be more different...

Lemieux should have starred in a hockey Space Jam too.

 

[Saint Patty 33]

Shaq had a very different career than Lindros.

Believe it would be more in reference to their physical domanice at a young age. Lindros, like Shaq, was the best player in his league at one point of his career. Only difference is O'Neal's longevity.

 

[Mike C]

Adding my rationale:
Moses Malone = Phil Esposito. Big numbers. Garbage collectors supreme.
Robert Parish = Larry Robinson. Trusted lynchpin on great teams.
Charles Barkley = Brett Hull. Stocky, quotable scorers.
Paul Gasol = Geno Malkin. Number two men on mini-dynasties.
Dan Issel = Bernie Federko. Unheralded scorers but never elite or champions.
Alex English = Steve Shutt. See above.
Elgin Baylor = Bobby Hull. Superior and game changing skills throughout the 60's.
John Havlichek = Bryan Trottier. Warriors and leaders on champions.
Bob Cousy = Max Bentley. Old-time magicians.
Walt Frazier = Pavel Bure. Flash and skill galore.
Nate Thurmond = Tim Horton. Rock steady defenders.
Rick Barry = Marcel Dionne. Big-time scorers but somewhat underrated.
Carmelo Anthony = Joe Thornton. Long time point producers who hung around. No championships.
Bob Pettit = Ted Lindsay. Best at their position during that era.
Michael Cooper = Jere Lehtinen. Defensive specialists on high caliber teams.
Dennis Johnson = Guy Carbonneau. See above.
Gail Goodrich = Theo Fleury. Scorers despite size limitations.
James Worthy = Glenn Anderson. Super fast wingmen finishers on dynasties. Never "the" man. I always equate Showtime Lakers to the 80's Oilers.
Steve Nash = Dominik Hasek. Late bloomers with unorthodox styles. Won MVP's.
David Thompson = Denis Savard. Gifted and highly skilled point producers.
Bob McAdoo = Dale Hawerchuk. See above but not as pretty.
Adrian Dantley = Dave Andreychuk. Scorers in the ugliest fashion but you can't argue the numbers.
Gary Payton = Pavel Datsyuk. Two-way forces. Smaller and skilled.
John Stockton = Adam Oates. Lots of assists.
Dave Cowens = Ken Dryden. Didn't play long but always on winners.
Mark Aguirre = Bernie Nicholls. Second tier but produced.
Bernard King = Dino Ciccarelli. See above.
Ray Allen = Al MacInnis. Shooters,
George Gervin = Peter Stastny. Filled it up but never considered the best.
Pete Maravich = Stan Mikita. Smallish, but super effective.
Tony Parker = Paul Kariya. See above. Waterbugs.

My Best-Carey

Always appreciate the well thought out effort on your missives

Pulled out some unheralded NBA names of days gone by!

 

[Neutrinos]

Chris Webber/Pierre Turgeon
Both were 1st overall picks that are mostly remembered for games that took place before they were pros. Both inexplicably and regrettably were traded multiple times during their prime. Both produced at a Hall of Fame level, yet, despite years of eligibility, neither has been inducted. Both were a 5x all-star

Both Webber & Turgeon have since been inducted into their respective Hall of Fames

 

[Albatros]

I might add that he sucked at free throws which allowed teams to strategize with that in mind

That's my biggest issue with his career. 53 percent lifetime. A little practice would have served him and his teams well

I don't know that little practice will so easily overcome ADHD. He just wasn't wired that way.